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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightelfsb View Post
    Blame LFR. Bring back TBC raid model, that is all.
    While I vastly prefer the TBC model over MoP's, I don't think the current playerbase can handle the TBC model anymore.

    Pretty sad actually, that model was the best imo. With maybe hardmodes

  2. #162
    Dreadlord
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    i never really enjoyed raiding, i just wanted to see the story i guess..so now i do an lfr or so a week, and dedicate my time to my passion which is pvp, and then find a new f2p game that is much more fun(see: tera) and stop playing wow.
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  3. #163
    Last time I joined a normal mode raid, I was bored only 5 mins later. I really don´t know, how this could hook me for 7 years. It´s so time consuming. Also, I think the visual effects are completely overdone. Even if I turn them down until I barely see fire on the ground, it still hurts my eyes.

    2nd point would be the rewards. One model in 20 colors. And the models don´t even come close to T6. And the iLvl? I laugh at your pve item level when I gank you on the Isle of Thunder.

  4. #164
    i am x-wow player quited 4months back i had mmochamp bookmarked on my browser just to read what's going on with wow community after playing so long .

    Honestly speaking i can't connect with this game anymore nothing feels interesting to me MOP felts awesome at start and fresh but got dull later on and felt like the whole thing repeating again .

    I moved on to other games which i missed out in many years and trying to finish them on my new gaming PC

    Cheers

  5. #165
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peng View Post
    Last time I joined a normal mode raid, I was bored only 5 mins later. I really don´t know, how this could hook me for 7 years. It´s so time consuming. Also, I think the visual effects are completely overdone. Even if I turn them down until I barely see fire on the ground, it still hurts my eyes.

    2nd point would be the rewards. One model in 20 colors. And the models don´t even come close to T6. And the iLvl? I laugh at your pve item level when I gank you on the Isle of Thunder.


    you sire are amazing. how you "gank" unflagged opposing faction players. just amazing.


    Lawful good does not always mean Lawful nice

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    While I vastly prefer the TBC model over MoP's, I don't think the current playerbase can handle the TBC model anymore.

    Pretty sad actually, that model was the best imo. With maybe hardmodes
    I agree with you there and the TBC model was the best.

    I miss it.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-18 at 05:31 PM ----------

    Also the main thing missing now..prestige...it is missing and it drives people.

  7. #167
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grogo View Post
    I agree with you there and the TBC model was the best.

    I miss it.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-18 at 05:31 PM ----------

    Also the main thing missing now..prestige...it is missing and it drives people.
    cannot agree more. although i missed vanilla I cut my teeth on early b.c.


    Lawful good does not always mean Lawful nice

  8. #168
    Agree with most of this thread. I am contemplating quitting raiding too.

    Been on WOW since Beta, raided since then. My guild is now a 10N guild and we always finished all 10N raids before. It feels 10N are too hard now, or at least not worth the investment.

    I can invest 2h/week on LFR, I get to wear the new sets, improve my character, discover all the content - 80% of the value of raiding for a 2h/week investment.

    If I want the extra 20% (technical challenge of downing the same boss, in the same place that drops the same loot than LFR - just a few ilvls and hps % higher) I need to invest at least 20h/week between 3 nights of raiding and all the farming for valor and raid resources. Its just not worth the extra 18hours per week anymore, which are spent on wiping on Horridon.

  9. #169
    Herald of the Titans Razorice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    What's the point? I raided for 7 years but come mop I can see all the content and "raid" when I feel like it in lfr. But! The main reason I stopped raiding was the fact that bosses are starting to get very boring. Reusing old raid mechanics from fights in years past is not fun. Doing a boss that is doing the same move with a different name that a boss did 4 years ago is bullshit.
    This is actually why I don't bother raiding.

  10. #170
    I blame LFR.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by spectrefax View Post
    LFR has drastically reduced the raiding pool.

    I know and have heard of a bunch of people who are happy with LFR as their endgame, just for the simple fact that they don't have to deal with guilds and schedules, etc.

    Only people left raiding, these days, are those who actually enjoy the playstyle of it.

    Before LFR the raiding pool had a lot of people who "put up with" raiding in order to see content/get gear/etc. Now that they don't have to, they don't. And all those people are no longer in the raiding pool.

    That and the fact that they don't have to actually think about anything.

    No, I'm not hating on LFR. But can you honestly say that you've ever joined an lfr where people actually bother with the mechanics? I'm split in my opinion where people call for Blizzard to remove pieces of loot (like tier gear) from lfr.

    If people just do it to "see" content they have no need for it. On the other hand people that do raid with guilds use lfr to try and offset unlucky drops in normals. I always dread queueing lfr as a tank in the 2nd half of HoF cause I KNOW I'm going to die at least once since people can't be assed to actually dps down constructs, and sometimes even the blobs.
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  12. #172
    I agree with you there and the TBC model was the best.
    No. Ulduar model was the best.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Otiswhitaker View Post
    I'm pretty sure the amount of raiders has never been all that large anyways. If you discount LFR, it's probably a bit smaller than it used to be, if you count LFR, it's larger than it's ever been, by about 20 miles. That should tell people a lot of things right there. Most people don't want to "real raid".
    I dunno if you can just flatly say that most people don't want to "real raid". A lot of us loved "real raiding". It’s just that the raiding we loved isn’t there anymore. There are lots of reasons for this. Some are on the players’ side (as a group, we’ve aged and have different priorities), but many are on Blizzard’s side. “Real raiding” died in Cata. Maybe even long before that. It could be argued that the last “real raiding” scene was back in BC when Blizzard just splooged out all the content and let difficulty be the gating mechanism.

    They created conflicting goals when they over complicated it with 50 different versions of the same content. HM, NM, 10, 25, LFR… It’s too much. They tried to appease everyone, but I’d argue that what ended up happening was that they drove away their middle ground. That group of players in between “bleeding edge” and “herp derp” is dwindling. Which is too bad. That group was Blizzard’s bread and butter.

    That group was me.
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  14. #174
    Scarab Lord Anjerith's Avatar
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    LFR Did not reduce the raiding pool. It *did* take many of the lackluster players that got into 25 man content simply because raid leaders needed numbers and put them where they really belong.

    Cannot stress this enough, a 25 man raid is simply too big for any MMO community. The skill of the few is what balances out the ineptitude of the many. It was the same with 40 mans. Hell, it is the same with 10 mans, except the ratio is much tighter (you may carry 1-2 in 10)

    I state this again, LFR did nothing bad. It *did* kill raids that didn't need to be happening. If your raiding and carrying around people that are not good enough *or* they can't dedicate the necessary time to raid properly, those people are killing the raiding community.


    As for reusing boss mechanics, I haven't seen much of that in 5.2. Very, Very fine outlines of old mechanics? Sure. What people want when they ask for "new" mechanics isn't actually anything substantial, they just want to complain without offering suggestions.
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Gold and the 'need' for it in-game is easily one of the most overblown mindsets in this community.

  15. #175
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anjerith View Post
    LFR Did not reduce the raiding pool. It *did* take many of the lackluster players that got into 25 man content simply because raid leaders needed numbers and put them where they really belong.

    Cannot stress this enough, a 25 man raid is simply too big for any MMO community. The skill of the few is what balances out the ineptitude of the many. It was the same with 40 mans. Hell, it is the same with 10 mans, except the ratio is much tighter (you may carry 1-2 in 10)

    I state this again, LFR did nothing bad. It *did* kill raids that didn't need to be happening. If your raiding and carrying around people that are not good enough *or* they can't dedicate the necessary time to raid properly, those people are killing the raiding community.


    As for reusing boss mechanics, I haven't seen much of that in 5.2. Very, Very fine outlines of old mechanics? Sure. What people want when they ask for "new" mechanics isn't actually anything substantial, they just want to complain without offering suggestions.
    maybe the entitled masses mean something like you engage the boss, it has no chance of wiping your raid, profit would be a new approach. oh wait. we have LFR.


    Lawful good does not always mean Lawful nice

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Otiswhitaker View Post
    Number 3 is a really, really, really good point. Most raiders I've seen are a VERY unaccepting bunch, and just want people who've already raided with other guilds in the past. Usually, anyways. Not always. but it seems abnormally, and unfortunately common. Raiders, with their toxic attitudes, will eventually make organized raiding a ghost town in a few years. It's pretty much already heading that way.

    And let's face it, the elephant in the room that everyone wants to ignore is that from the game's launch in 2004, till T15 in 2013, not many people have ever really raided all that much. You'd think knowing that, these people would be a little less.... the way they are.
    For all its prominence in WoW, organized raiding is not a very popular activity, and hardcore/progression raiding is much rarer still. And although playing the actual encounters is fun, all the hoops people have to jump through to get ready and stay ready are not fun, when you are expected to be "optimum" or else "let the raid down."

    The great majority of players don't find being "optimum" to be a lot of fun. It's a lot more like work than playing a game.

  17. #177
    Why would anyone that just likes to log on and play randomly care about being in a raiding guild now? LFR lets someone enjoy those raids for epic loot without dealing with the drama.

    I have said it before and I will say it again, most players don't want challenge. They want to log in an do whatever for an hour. The only reason many people raided before was because the only option to see those locations and bosses was through raiding guilds. Now they don't need that, so why would they app to some brow beaters they probably don't even like?

  18. #178
    i think i'd like to see blizz add a second difficulty to LFR

    being able to queue for 25n raids via LFR queue would be nice, you'd actually have to have a clue and if you did get grouped with a bunch of numpties, you'd be able to kick the truly fail after a wipe.
    where's the goddamned ESO sub forum?

  19. #179
    Pandaren Monk Otiswhitaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanEX View Post
    That and the fact that they don't have to actually think about anything.

    No, I'm not hating on LFR. But can you honestly say that you've ever joined an lfr where people actually bother with the mechanics? I'm split in my opinion where people call for Blizzard to remove pieces of loot (like tier gear) from lfr.

    If people just do it to "see" content they have no need for it. On the other hand people that do raid with guilds use lfr to try and offset unlucky drops in normals. I always dread queueing lfr as a tank in the 2nd half of HoF cause I KNOW I'm going to die at least once since people can't be assed to actually dps down constructs, and sometimes even the blobs.
    To me, getting gear is content. I'm building up my character. So, technically, LFR is my endgame. People want gear. Even if it's crappy gear. You gotta give people something, otherwise, they'd do it once and be bored, and then quit the game.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-18 at 06:18 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by smokii View Post
    i think i'd like to see blizz add a second difficulty to LFR

    being able to queue for 25n raids via LFR queue would be nice, you'd actually have to have a clue and if you did get grouped with a bunch of numpties, you'd be able to kick the truly fail after a wipe.
    In theory, that'd be nice. I'd love that a lot so I could do something that's not LFR without a guild. But it wouldn't really work. The problem would be that it'd be too hard for the average player, and either people would get mad and quit, or it'd be nerfed into the ground, which'd defeat it's purpose.

    I'd LOVE to have queueable normal and above and such, but it's just not feasible to do without destroying content in some fashion

    So, I'll just live with LFR :/

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    The second blizz made bosses more challenging the number of "raiders" began to decline. The vast majority of players who are not top 500 quality just do not want to put in the effot to down challenging bosses. Throw LFR into the mix and you are now teaching "raiders" that is is not only acceptable to whine until the challenge of content is dropped to a level sufficient for EVERYONE to be able to complete it but hey lets throw in a wipe reward for the players who cannot even handle that.
    The way I see it, which is the same as a number of others have said as well, is that there were a lot of people who only raided normal mode raids because it was the only option. With LFR, those people can raid when they want without worrying about a schedule, or even a guild, if they're so inclined. I'm in this category. I'm still in a guild, because I like my guildies, but I don't want to raid on a set schedule. Especially since despite being on an east coast U.S. server, almost every guild starts at 7:30pm or later (mostly later) which doesn't fit my schedule.
    Stating an opinion as fact does not make it fact. Opinions are not fact. So don't be stupid and make a fool of yourself by trying to pass off your opinion as fact.

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