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  1. #1341
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    I'm not sure I see a reason why they would wish to do that. More likely they'll continue to look for ways to get it through some very stubborn skulls that if you don't really want to do LFR, you don't have to but if you want to, it's OK.
    Whilst you do not have to LFR in the same way you do not have to anything in game I feel that this statement is wide of the mark. It is not possible to cap your valour each week running normal raids and with the current level of difficulty the normal raider needs every step up on the gear ladder they can get. For those that do not participate in organised raiding there is absolutely nothing else for them to do if they wish to progress their character.

  2. #1342
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Which is why we'll probably see LFR put on the Normal lockout for loot (that is, if you kill a boss in LFR after you've killed him in Normal for the week, you're ineligible for loot).
    Which is basicly putting LFR on a seperate lockout...

    Welcome normal mode raiders you can get to kill 1 boss with us for the first many weeks and then rush through LFR for loot on the last day before reset.

    And I would say the dual system of runnning 10 and 25 in wrath was more enjoyable than the current of LFR and 10/25.
    And it did give you the possibility of fun social "beer league" raiding as someone called it. Sure people burned out back then but they burn out the same now a days so really...
    Maybe we schould try to find some burnout rates and compare them if there is such a thing. Or maybe just look at the amount of subscribers that have left.
    But well in the end the amount of raiders is become negliable compared to the vast mass of players playing this game so well.
    Why blizzard thinks that casual players will find it fun in the long run to what is basicly a single player experience I cannot fathom. It is like saying casual players do not want to play with other people in an MMO...

  3. #1343
    Deleted
    Heres one from my own guild.

    The MT and OT are away for a few weeks - weds scheduled raid featured a lot of no shows.

    Why? Because everyone knows it means training two new guys up and therefore wiping over and over all night on stuff that's already been killed. And given learning it in the first place meant wiping over and over, people simply can't be arsed. Now, imagine that we weren't talking about a holiday but key players quitting entirely and we'd have a guild implosion. 2 raiders quit but in effect it means a ten man dies, at least for a while.

  4. #1344
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Heres one from my own guild.

    The MT and OT are away for a few weeks - weds scheduled raid featured a lot of no shows.

    Why? Because everyone knows it means training two new guys up and therefore wiping over and over all night on stuff that's already been killed. And given learning it in the first place meant wiping over and over, people simply can't be arsed. Now, imagine that we weren't talking about a holiday but key players quitting entirely and we'd have a guild implosion. 2 raiders quit but in effect it means a ten man dies, at least for a while.
    maybe my answer is a bit far fetched, but your guilds attitude sucks

    deal with that

    "normal guilds" where everything is peachy - actually want to take the time to see if that worst case scenario happens. I think any sensible GM/raidleader would call the raid if you get what you think is going to happen - or would actually take the time to invest in players so this would be one time (or perhaps 2 times) where this kind of thing would happen.

  5. #1345
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    maybe my answer is a bit far fetched, but your guilds attitude sucks

    The last line of defense of a broken game is to blame its players.

    Such arguments can work in isolated cases. When the data show that most guilds have struggled and most have failed, they don't work.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  6. #1346
    Quote Originally Posted by Wælcyrie View Post
    Moved onto other games.
    I've yet to find a better game, yea other games have cool graphics and the other new snazzy shiz. But nothing is as good as WoW to me and believe me I tried to get into other games. But I'm a person that doesn't get bored easily. Been playing WoW 8 yrs and haven't gotten bored.

  7. #1347
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    maybe my answer is a bit far fetched, but your guilds attitude sucks
    Not at all. The open policy is that everything is voluntary.

    People not turning up is feedback which is absolutely essential for me to have in order to plan for the future and what I have to do. What you get when it's not voluntary is people turning up, hating it, then they hate the game and then they quit - either the guild or the game. And they do that without telling you.
    deal with that

    "normal guilds" where everything is peachy - actually want to take the time to see if that worst case scenario happens. I think any sensible GM/raidleader would call the raid if you get what you think is going to happen - or would actually take the time to invest in players so this would be one time (or perhaps 2 times) where this kind of thing would happen.
    I dont think or guess, I find out by letting everyone do whatever they want.

    It's why I run the best social guild in the world with a retention rate which would simply astonish you.

    Ofc you dumped "friends" in exchange for purple pixels so I doubt you'd understand.

  8. #1348
    Brewmaster soulcrusher's Avatar
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    its nothing to do with a new generation of spoon fed. its more people just cannot be fecked anymore. i know i cant. whats the point. not everyone is interested in achieving absolute perftection at their class to the detriment of real life. most just want to play, have some fun, see the fights and not get stressed.

  9. #1349
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    The open policy is that everything is voluntary.
    I think these kinds of situations often just come down to common courtesy towards the other people.

  10. #1350
    Legendary! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Considering how low normal raiding participation is at the moment I doubt they would do this.
    Oh, Normal/Heroic's going out the window soon, it's just a matter of how many stepping stones do you need to get there.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-19 at 03:51 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    I'd say it might be reasonable to not have all bosses available on LFR perhaps. Maybe exclude the end boss of each tier. (?)
    Or just the hard ones.
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  11. #1351
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    The assumption that guilds (normal or heroic) would actually be interested in spending raid time going back to old raids for one or two potential recruits to get them gear is about the stupidest fucking thing I can think of in the universe and I hope by now we've (and by we've I mean the developers) come to the conclusion that everyone demanding tiered raiding come back was just full of it. It's like the challenge modes. Everybody and their mother insisted that making dungeons hard was the way to go and then nobody did challenge modes. Well nobody is going back to farm old content, they don't want to. They run lfr instead. Duh. You honestly think 8 or 9 folks want to go back and do content they've already beat the crap out of the get gear for 1 or 2 POTENTIAL PLAYERS that isn't even guaranteed to drop for them? Wtf kinda catch up is that?
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  12. #1352
    The Lightbringer Toxigen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Heres one from my own guild.

    The MT and OT are away for a few weeks - weds scheduled raid featured a lot of no shows.

    Why? Because everyone knows it means training two new guys up and therefore wiping over and over all night on stuff that's already been killed. And given learning it in the first place meant wiping over and over, people simply can't be arsed. Now, imagine that we weren't talking about a holiday but key players quitting entirely and we'd have a guild implosion. 2 raiders quit but in effect it means a ten man dies, at least for a while.
    So no one in your guild has a tank alt that has the slightest shade of gear? I mean, heaven forbid you have to go back a tier for a quick cleanup of old bosses to gear tanks. Not like guilds of expansions past have EVER had to do that, right?

    A part of being a good guild is having a "plan B" in case the worst case scenario occurs. Clearly, you have no fallout plan for both tanks leaving. That is your own damn fault, not Blizzard's.

    You guys just aren't prepared. Oh well, collective raiding break for a "few weeks" if you aren't willing to bring in a couple new members. That's the way it works. If a guild implodes because people quit, then your recruiting methods need a serious evaluation. Now is a good time to do that, before more of your members leave due to lack of leadership. Mediocre 10 man guilds are a dime a dozen, anyway.

    There's just so much whining and crying these days, its ridiculous. Whatever happened to just doing what it takes to prevail?
    Last edited by Toxigen; 2013-04-19 at 03:30 PM.
    "There are two types of guys in this world. Guys who sniff their fingers after scratching their balls, and dirty fucking liars." -StylesClashv3
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalis View Post
    Not finding-a-cock-on-your-girlfriend-is-normal level of odd, but nevertheless, still odd.

  13. #1353
    Quote Originally Posted by Toxigen View Post
    So no one in your guild has a tank alt that has the slightest shade of gear? I mean, heaven forbid you have to go back a tier for a quick cleanup of old bosses to gear tanks. Not like guilds of expansions past have EVER had to do that, right?

    There's just so much whining and crying these days, its ridiculous. Whatever happened to just doing what it takes to prevail?
    What happened to just doing what it takes is that people have grown past success at all costs to actually wanting to enjoy the game.

    That is how it is for me, and those I played with. In Vanilla, I did the hardcore raiding, 4-5 days a week, doing whatever you need. TBC we switched to mostly 10 man, and partnered for some 25 man. WotLK and Cata we were pure 10 man, and only needed the odd dpps filler. During those two expansions, if we ever had more than 3people who couldn't make it, we called it. If ever I couldn't make it (I was gm, raid leader, and MT), we called it. Why? Because to me, we didn't hate ourselves.

    Yes, if I wasn't there we could have found a pug tank, or have someone else bring an alt or off spec, and have someone else lead. But then you are dealing with people in different roles than normal, healing different, positioning slightly different, diffent leadership style. It is guaranteed not to be as efficient. And do all this for what? A chance at loot if thinks are on farm, or face smashing a progress boss for 3 hours. My guild and I had better things to do with our time. Sure, it meant it took us longer to progress. But we weren't in a race.

    Once we went to this system, I would never go back.

  14. #1354
    The Lightbringer Toxigen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krastyn View Post
    What happened to just doing what it takes is that people have grown past success at all costs to actually wanting to enjoy the game.
    I'm not talking about wiping. The issue I've decided to criticize is simply a guild leadership / recruitment thing.

    So you want Blizzard to handle your personnel issues too?
    "There are two types of guys in this world. Guys who sniff their fingers after scratching their balls, and dirty fucking liars." -StylesClashv3
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalis View Post
    Not finding-a-cock-on-your-girlfriend-is-normal level of odd, but nevertheless, still odd.

  15. #1355
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Not at all. The open policy is that everything is voluntary.

    People not turning up is feedback which is absolutely essential for me to have in order to plan for the future and what I have to do. What you get when it's not voluntary is people turning up, hating it, then they hate the game and then they quit - either the guild or the game. And they do that without telling you.


    I dont think or guess, I find out by letting everyone do whatever they want.

    It's why I run the best social guild in the world with a retention rate which would simply astonish you.

    Ofc you dumped "friends" in exchange for purple pixels so I doubt you'd understand.

    Well bud - you don't want to see what I meant by that nor have the imagination how thing went. Should I be astonished by your retention rate? Dude you know jackshit about my guild, and as such you cannot claim that.
    Just an example - we have regular guildmeets. Where former and current guildies meet. I can count on one hand the amount of guildies that left for greener pastures and didn't return at some point. Even now that we're no longer raiding people want to come back or even apply to us for the atmosphere.

    Your way of running things might work for you. Fine. But its not the only holy grail out there. So please come of your "my guild is a lovable beer drinking -we don't give a fuck about progress, aslong as we don't have to teach new people-casual merry bunch" high horse.

    The fact remains that LFR remains the biggest reason for the answer to this topic. Difficulty is by far a lesser reason. Convenience beats everything.

  16. #1356
    I quit the same, same as all my friends who also raided actively.

  17. #1357
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Toxigen View Post
    So no one in your guild has a tank alt that has the slightest shade of gear? I mean, heaven forbid you have to go back a tier for a quick cleanup of old bosses to gear tanks. Not like guilds of expansions past have EVER had to do that, right?
    That wsn't the issue. Rather than solve my imaginary problems in a condescending way, why not read what I actually write?

    The issue wasn't that we had no people to step up and tank, it was that the rest of the guys can't be arsed going through the whole wipe process again while the new guys learn.
    A part of being a good guild is having a "plan B" in case the worst case scenario occurs. Clearly, you have no fallout plan for both tanks leaving. That is your own damn fault, not Blizzard's.
    It's completely normal for the average guild to have no ability to replace key members easily. Not only are my MT and OT very good at what they do and would be hard to replace, they are my friends IRL (they are away getting married to each other in fact and will be on honeymoon.) Having people be disposable cogs in a machine isn't what the game is about for most folks. Sorry for not being a sociopath.
    You guys just aren't prepared. Oh well, collective raiding break for a "few weeks" if you aren't willing to bring in a couple new members. That's the way it works. If a guild implodes because people quit, then your recruiting methods need a serious evaluation. Now is a good time to do that, before more of your members leave due to lack of leadership. Mediocre 10 man guilds are a dime a dozen, anyway.
    None of that applies to my guild. Again, read properly.
    There's just so much whining and crying these days, its ridiculous. Whatever happened to just doing what it takes to prevail?
    Never happened in the past, doesn't now, won't in the future. You are just too short sighted to see it. Not just reading comprehension you have issues with, is it?

  18. #1358
    The Lightbringer Toxigen's Avatar
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    Fine, carry on with your defeatist attitude and watch your guild dissolve.

    Not my problem.
    "There are two types of guys in this world. Guys who sniff their fingers after scratching their balls, and dirty fucking liars." -StylesClashv3
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalis View Post
    Not finding-a-cock-on-your-girlfriend-is-normal level of odd, but nevertheless, still odd.

  19. #1359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toxigen View Post
    Fine, carry on with your defeatist attitude and watch your guild dissolve.

    Not my problem.
    Can't see why the guild i've either been in or lead with the same core for half a decade would dissolve now.

    Why not learn to read - and while you are at it, to back up and acknowledge when you've got stuff wrong?

    Feel free to apologise any time you like.

  20. #1360
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Let's see if we can stay more on-topic (if there's anything left to discuss after almost 70 pages) and much less of the personal attacks and general aggressiveness that tend to get threads like this closed as being played out. Thanks.
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