1. #1
    Warchief Galbrei's Avatar
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    Question Question about combining CDs and Racial buffs

    I play mostly just PVE as Assassination and I'm trying to understand the best way to combine my CDs, mainly Vendetta (2min), Shadow Blades (3min), troll Berserking (3min) and engineering Synapse Springs (1min). Most fights I just start firing them all up at the same time, but as they refresh under different timers I'm not sure what to do afterwards. Anyone got any recommendations?

  2. #2
    Use them all on CD unless you know you've got something coming up that's "big" and requires or promotes saving CDs. They do actually line up quite nicely if you use everything ASAP on patchwerk: you'll get everything at 0, springs at 1, springs/vend at 2, spring/SB/zerk at 3, springs/vend at 4, springs at 5, and ALL CDs together again at 6.

  3. #3
    You can wait for both of the cds to be up, ONLY IF you know for a certain fact that you will not lose another round of that CD that has been off cooldown.

  4. #4
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    Use them all on CD unless you know you've got something coming up that's "big" and requires or promotes saving CDs. They do actually line up quite nicely if you use everything ASAP on patchwerk: you'll get everything at 0, springs at 1, springs/vend at 2, spring/SB/zerk at 3, springs/vend at 4, springs at 5, and ALL CDs together again at 6.
    This. Using them together helps out a ton. I would however recommend not using berserking+SB while under lust or you will either cap out energy or waste CPs since you will have both coming in in droves.

    Fights like jin'rok would be an example of holding off on CD's until a better situation arises, such as a pool spawning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Saegno View Post
    This. Using them together helps out a ton. I would however recommend not using berserking+SB while under lust or you will either cap out energy or waste CPs since you will have both coming in in droves.
    Waste cp's how exactly? You are getting more... use them? Berserking is worth more during SB+lust than it would be to use it later without either. Stacking different kinds of haste has always been better than using them individually. Auto attacks (which haste gives you more of) are worth a hell of a lot more with SB up.

  6. #6
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    Waste cp's how exactly? You are getting more... use them? Berserking is worth more during SB+lust than it would be to use it later without either. Stacking different kinds of haste has always been better than using them individually. Auto attacks (which haste gives you more of) are worth a hell of a lot more with SB up.
    Use them on what exactly? I'm not a troll or have ridiculous amounts of haste and I already have issue with capping out CP/Energy/Easting CPs during SB+Hero. If you have 10 CPs, envenom running and energy capped you are losing out on potential dps. Why increase the issue by adding in another haste CD thus creating even more energy overflow?

    Edit- If the OP has no such issues then by all means line them up, as sesshou stated together they are much stronger than separately.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Saegno View Post
    Use them on what exactly? I'm not a troll or have ridiculous amounts of haste and I already have issue with capping out CP/Energy/Easting CPs during SB+Hero. If you have 10 CPs, envenom running and energy capped you are losing out on potential dps. Why increase the issue by adding in another haste CD thus creating even more energy overflow?

    Edit- If the OP has no such issues then by all means line them up, as sesshou stated together they are much stronger than separately.
    Oh, envenoming when the buff up is "wasting" cp's because envenom doesn't do damage... I mean with your logic, why SB during lust? I clip envenoms really often with just lust and SB so thats a horrible waste and you shouldn't use SB during lust?

    That reminds me of that crap I use to see people say a lot back in DS about how you shouldn't hit AR during lust because you get more energy than you can spend. Yeah you will clip envenoms, so? You are also increasing the number of attacks you get under the envenom buff by stacking hastes (and increasing the number of attacks you get with SB)

  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    Oh, envenoming when the buff up is "wasting" cp's because envenom doesn't do damage... I mean with your logic, why SB during lust? I clip envenoms really often with just lust and SB so thats a horrible waste and you shouldn't use SB during lust?

    That reminds me of that crap I use to see people say a lot back in DS about how you shouldn't hit AR during lust because you get more energy than you can spend. Yeah you will clip envenoms, so? You are also increasing the number of attacks you get under the envenom buff by stacking hastes (and increasing the number of attacks you get with SB)
    I never implied it doesn't do damage nor did I imply that extra attacks under the buff would be a detriment. I simply stated that you would be losing out on potential dps due to the envenom clipping.

    I'de be curious to see the math of clipping envenom for more autos vs spreading the CDs out to not clip envenom.

    Edit- No reason to be so defensive about a difference of opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  9. #9
    The idea behind not clipping envenoms is to stretch the buff out as much as possible during your normal rotation. This really doesn't apply to lust. If you aren't using SB during lust you are delusional. If you energy cap during lust as Assassination you're most likely not clipping your envenoms. You're going to have the envenom buff up for the entirety of SB which is a good thing. As to why you wouldn't take advantage of more combo points and finishers during lust is beyond me.

  10. #10
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ishidan View Post
    The idea behind not clipping envenoms is to stretch the buff out as much as possible during your normal rotation. This really doesn't apply to lust. If you aren't using SB during lust you are delusional. If you energy cap during lust as Assassination you're most likely not clipping your envenoms. You're going to have the envenom buff up for the entirety of SB which is a good thing. As to why you wouldn't take advantage of more combo points and finishers during lust is beyond me.
    I said nothing of not using SB during lust(Comboing them together is a given), I said he should probably hold off on using his troll racial in combo with SB+lust. It seems like it would be better use of berserking to get more envenom uptime by using it outside of lust+SB than it would be to get more auto attacks, while clipping envenoms even more, during lust+SB.

    If we were running 85-90% envenom uptime as it is then I could see the benefit of squeezing in more attacks during lust+SB but as it is we are not even close to that sort of uptime so why not do what you can to increase the uptime.

    If anyone is able to math out the difference I would love to see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Saegno View Post
    I said nothing of not using SB during lust(Comboing them together is a given), I said he should probably hold off on using his troll racial in combo with SB+lust. It seems like it would be better use of berserking to get more envenom uptime by using it outside of lust+SB than it would be to get more auto attacks, while clipping envenoms even more, during lust+SB.

    If we were running 85-90% envenom uptime as it is then I could see the benefit of squeezing in more attacks during lust+SB but as it is we are not even close to that sort of uptime so why not do what you can to increase the uptime.

    If anyone is able to math out the difference I would love to see it.
    But the two (lust and berserkering) are basically the same thing. Both will cause you to clip envenoms, yet you have no problem stacking SB with lust and clipping envenoms, but oh no you can't put berserking in there because you will clip envenoms.

    And you said you would "waste" cp. Getting damage from them isn't wasting them. It is like wasting energy with AR if you use it during lust. It isn't a "waste" if it is still a gain and there was nothing better you could have done with it. So long as you use your resources the best you can, they aren't wasted.

  12. #12
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    But the two (lust and berserkering) are basically the same thing. Both will cause you to clip envenoms, yet you have no problem stacking SB with lust and clipping envenoms, but oh no you can't put berserking in there because you will clip envenoms.

    And you said you would "waste" cp. Getting damage from them isn't wasting them. It is like wasting energy with AR if you use it during lust. It isn't a "waste" if it is still a gain and there was nothing better you could have done with it. So long as you use your resources the best you can, they aren't wasted.
    You clearly are not understanding me. Yes, you will clip envenom with SB+Lust, now here is the part you should pay attention to since I'm tired of repeating myself, so why make the problem worse by adding in berserking. Would you rather clip 5 envenoms during Sb+lust or clip 10 envenoms during SB+Lust+Zerking for extra white hits during the combo?
    Yes, I understand it's not a waste, what it is, again the part you should pay attention to, is wasted potential. Yes you get damage from envenom, what you are losing out on is increased envenom uptime which should account for higher gains than having more attacks during envenom with SB+Lust+zerking.

    If you are clipping envenoms during SB+Lust, there by losing possible envenom uptime, it only seems logical to not make it worse by adding in zerking. Why not just use it right after lust?

    Edit- This is the last I'm going to say about the subject. I've said my thoughts, agree or disagree I don't care from this point. I find myself talking in circles to explain basic concepts and it's annoying me.
    Last edited by Saegno; 2013-03-18 at 05:07 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  13. #13
    Which is better, to have 30% more autoattacks attacks ignoring all armor and on yellow hit proccing more poisons during your constant envenom buff, or is it better to have 51% more autoattacks ignoring armor and on yellow hit proccing more poisons during your constant envenom buff (not to mention having more envenoms in during that lust).

  14. #14
    Saegno see you are essentially saying that slightly higher uptime on envenom out weighs the multiplicative stacking of haste and additional attacks under SB. I'm saying no it doesn't and you aren't wasting anything by stacking them.

    Another big thing you seem to be missing is that you will generally use your dps potion during lust (or prepot will be up during it if used on the pull) and every other SB/Zerker should have vendetta up. It would be extra silly to not stack your berserking with the massive agi from your potion and flat damage increase from vendetta just so that you can wait until lust is over to hit it.

    So in addition to the extra attacks under SB and multiplicative haste stacking, if you do not use berserking during lust with SB, you will not have your huge amount of extra agi for berserking either.

    Quote Originally Posted by shadowboy View Post
    Which is better, to have 30% more autoattacks attacks ignoring all armor and on yellow hit proccing more poisons during your constant envenom buff, or is it better to have 51% more autoattacks ignoring armor and on yellow hit proccing more poisons during your constant envenom buff (not to mention having more envenoms in during that lust).
    I must be crazy because I think you are agreeing with me...

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    I must be crazy because I think you are agreeing with me...
    I know, right?

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