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  1. #21
    Field Marshal
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    go back in toes and get em some gear then come back to ToT might be better and they can look for some help on noxxic for the rotation, etc etc

  2. #22
    Stick it out, help with that block.

    I don't really understand why you are kitting the bats, first off, and secondly, i would <highly> suggest your melees to help kill the first turtle of the first wave, to ensure you have a 'kickable' one on the first aoe thingie, so you can interrupt it. After that, you will always have 'spare' turtles from previous waves, so melees can just attack boss and aoe bats that are close by.

    Good luck with it.

    More on the topic of 'jumping ship', it would depend on a lot of factors. How long have you been in the guild for? Do you get along with most guildies? Do you have friends inside? Is the atmosphere something you appreciate? Loot distribution fair and to your acceptance? However, moving along strictly due to slow progress on a new boss is not the way to go. Every guild hits walls at certain points in time...

  3. #23
    Some of the replies here are a little bit harsh.
    I'd say that he deserves some harsh replies if he views the "wasted dkp" as the biggest loss.

  4. #24
    Warchief Letmesleep's Avatar
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    Cool short story inc:

    I did a lot of guild hopping in Cata. I was always better than most of the people I played with, so I kept on switching upwards to better and better guilds. By the time I had reached the top and was downing all heroic modes, I realized I hated everyone around me. That's when I quit WoW.

    Moral of the story is: find a good balance between competency and community. It's ok to go a little slower if your guild is full of awesome and fun people. From what you're telling me though, your guild is "stuck" on a normal mode. That's pretty bad. There are plenty of guilds that have better progression without taking themselves too seriously. Just keep in mind that raiding with the best is still miserable if they are all freaking douche bags.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by mstg View Post
    Our 25m raid is just bad. The RL is 6/12 with his 10m team but has trouble leading the 25m team to kill Tortos with 3 nights of attempts. From what I see, we have 3-4 bad ranged dps/healers, who keep dying at some point from rockfall or the bats (we kite the bats). Sometimes the ranged dps is not high enough to get the turtles down fast enough. Our best try was around 30% and even if we do kill it finally I dont see how we can do it consistently, just like we were stuck on council for a while after getting the first kill. Does my raid sound hopeless? It's gonna suck so much if I quit because I have not even gotten one loot and have not used 1 dkp.
    Use up all your DKP and leave afterwards to a better 25 man guild.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by crakerjack View Post
    Yes they're bad... if you don't one shot it... someone in the group didn't do his/her work. This is the exact reason why I hate PvE... no one puts enough effort in or atleast as much as I do... It's the noobs who can't do top end dps... it's the noobs who don't read up the fights and die to easy mechanics... it's the noobs who click and aren't aware of their surroundings... it's the noobs who don't know their class so all they do is their 5 button rotation but won't do anything outside of their role... I hate PvE because people can't get stuff done. I'd leave in a heart beat... I have a low tolerance for people who call themselves or want to be hardcore raiders, but don't put forth the time or effort outside the game. I'd say find a new guild, your guild is struggling to filter out all the bad players.
    This is an interesting and thoughtful rant about noobs, but what does it have to do with OP's post?

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-17 at 09:02 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Letmesleep View Post
    From what you're telling me though, your guild is "stuck" on a normal mode. That's pretty bad. There are plenty of guilds that have better progression without taking themselves too seriously. Just keep in mind that raiding with the best is still miserable if they are all freaking douche bags.
    95% of the guilds registered at WoWprogress are "stuck" on normal mode.

    A full FORTY-FIVE percent of them are still "stuck" on normal mode Horridon.

    So, I don't know, it might be too early to proclaim that the sky is falling and OP's guild is full of bads. It turns out, almost every guild and raid has people who could be performing better. What makes you think that when you leave for greener pastures, you will find them?

  7. #27
    Depends on what the OP is looking for. Want super fast hardcore progression, to already be done with normal modes and starting heroics, sure apply elsewhere. But be prepared for it, the higher you go, the more quickly you'll be cut if you can't keep up.

    Also, Tortos is the 4th boss and Blizzard did say the first 3 would/should be doable by those who still had upgrades from T14, but past that it'd be tough. Ultimately, not enough details in OP's post.

  8. #28
    You picked this guild.

  9. #29
    If you're asking this question your guild is better off without you
    So true. If you're raiding for gear / progression then move on. If you have friends and like the people you're raiding with then stick it out and try to be a positive pete.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
    You have way more than 3-4 bad healers/dps if you are struggling on tortos after six nights^^. On topic, it's up to you what you aim for and what you want in a guild, and if you have what it takes to get that if you leave. From what I hear you don't really have any sense of loyalty towards your guild (not being able to "steal" loot as the biggest loss about leaving, that's honestly just pathetic), and it sounds like you want way more, so I'd advice you to quit asap. If you actually will be able to join a better guild is an entirely different matter, link some logs?^^
    I've been number 1 on dkp since day one so I'm not sure if stealing loot fits the description.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-18 at 05:56 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sting View Post
    How much did you clear in MSV/HoF/ToeS with that 25 group?
    7H /16, there's a few core raiders who left so we have some new recruits

  11. #31
    My guild has only downed one boss and we can barely get past the second door for the second boss. Do we suck? Yes, but my guild is very nice. We're much older, all adults. We only raid 8-9 hours a week though. Last tier we were 16/16 normal and one boss heroic. I felt it wasn't too bad considering how little we raid. Now, it's all about a gear check and we aren't there yet, but we'll get there. Sorry to get off topic. My point is, if you like your guild, that's what matters. If you want better progression, either find another guild or just look at it from this way. The raid was JUST released and it's going to be out for a long time before the next raid which will be patch 5.4. Remember that people will get better gear as time goes on and it will get easier. Relax I say. It's just a game and the results will come. It takes time! People are learning and gear will come. Look how some of the bosses were in the previous tier for many people. It seemed hopeless then, but people got through it eventually. As I said, it takes time.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by mstg View Post
    I've been number 1 on dkp since day one so I'm not sure if stealing loot fits the description.
    The loot that drops is usually distributed to help the guild progress further in the most effective way possible (dkp is simply a way to distribute it in a somewhat even/effective manner, you don't "earn" the loot, it's used to improve the raid), you taking the loot and then leaving means that all those drops are completely wasted for the guild. If I planned to leave a guild I'd never even consider bidding on anything that a different player wanted after I made that decision. So yeah, you are pretty much stealing the loot, and if the loss of said loot is what bothers you the most about leaving the guild I surely hope they get rid of you, for their sake.

  13. #33
    Warchief sizzlinsauce's Avatar
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    sounds like you have a 10 man guild that is hiding under the 25m tag, time to skedaddle, make it easier for them to split back down to 10's where they belong. Let the other 14 find a guild. if those other 14 are worth their salt they wont have a problem.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Kennypowers View Post
    why would you kite bats? I kick shells for my group, and there's always enough shells to interrupt his breath with leftover ones to debuff bats. just call out you're debuffing then you nuke them down (before quake stomp)

    sounds like your raid lead is wasting everyone's time with crazy strats. its normal modes stop over thinking them.
    Just interrupting the boss's AOE is already a lot for our ranged to deal with. We tried that and sometimes we couldn't down the bats quick enough.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by mstg View Post
    I've been number 1 on dkp since day one so I'm not sure if stealing loot fits the description.
    Maybe I'm too nice, but when I step down from a guild I give them at least a fortnights notice, work on progression if they will have me/haven't replaced me yet and never expect any gear, even if I was top in dkp before deciding to leave. Its kind of the least you can do for the team that helped you get entertainment value out of Warcraft and gave you the progression you needed to apply to a new guild.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by kakle View Post
    Maybe I'm too nice, but when I step down from a guild I give them at least a fortnights notice, work on progression if they will have me/haven't replaced me yet and never expect any gear, even if I was top in dkp before deciding to leave. Its kind of the least you can do for the team that helped you get entertainment value out of Warcraft and gave you the progression you needed to apply to a new guild.
    I agree entirely.

  17. #37
    Mechagnome Lethora's Avatar
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    Tortos is a bitch. We are 7/12 normal atm (just killed Durumu first time yesterday and that was our 6th raid since patch). Out of first five bosses this reset we one-shotted four. Guess which one we wiped on for some time? Right, Tortos.
    It's just an annoying encounter where million of things can go wrong.
    Lethora, 90 Protection Paladin, Shadowsong-EU
    Amberglow, 90 Assassination Rogue, Shadowsong-EU
    Raiding 25man, 10hrs/week, 14/14H.

  18. #38
    We're 1/12 after 6 raids, almost made it to the 4th add phase!

    We are also incredibly casual, but hey, do what you want >.>

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
    The loot that drops is usually distributed to help the guild progress further in the most effective way possible (dkp is simply a way to distribute it in a somewhat even/effective manner, you don't "earn" the loot, it's used to improve the raid), you taking the loot and then leaving means that all those drops are completely wasted for the guild. If I planned to leave a guild I'd never even consider bidding on anything that a different player wanted after I made that decision. So yeah, you are pretty much stealing the loot, and if the loss of said loot is what bothers you the most about leaving the guild I surely hope they get rid of you, for their sake.
    Loot is just a small factor actually, it's the progression. If the raids go smooth then everyone will gear up faster and I won't be worrying about getting loot as much. However, that's not the case currently. In my old guild, I was also high on dkp and passed the gear to someone else who left the guild right after that. What happened? The guild started to break and we could not even clear what we used to clear, so how should I have felt with all that dkp?

  20. #40
    Warchief Letmesleep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoder View Post
    95% of the guilds registered at WoWprogress are "stuck" on normal mode.

    A full FORTY-FIVE percent of them are still "stuck" on normal mode Horridon.

    So, I don't know, it might be too early to proclaim that the sky is falling and OP's guild is full of bads.
    Totally, I agree. Since I don't play anymore I just assumed normal modes were equivalent in difficulty to past normal modes. I don't really have any idea how hard Throne of Thunder is. That being said, being stuck on the fourth boss sounds like low progression to me no matter what tier you're in.

    It turns out, almost every guild and raid has people who could be performing better. What makes you think that when you leave for greener pastures, you will find them?
    Well, typically you can look at their progress in previous tiers. The one thing you can't really know for sure till you join is how well you'll click with new people. That much is unknowable and he could easily end up in a guild with people he hates being around.

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