1. #1

    [Balance] Which Tier 4 DPS talent?

    Hey, I'm new to Balance druid.

    In 5.2 , which talent is considered talent of choice or is it situational?

    I know SoTF got a lil buff but is it better over Incarnation or FoN??
    In what occasions do u swap between each talent?

    Thanks in advance =]

  2. #2
    Incarnation all the way, as it allows you to put together a very powerful 30 second window of burst when combined with CA/potions/Bloodlust/etc. It interacts positively with fight mechanics too.

    Force of Nature may show slightly ahead on paper, but you have to contend with the fact that the AI is only slightly more intelligent than your kitchen sponge and the casting mechanics are weird. If they die you lose a lot of the benefit too, and have to use them more often (i.e. more chance for something to go wrong). SotF gives little actual benefit for Balance even after the buff in terms of actual casts saved.

  3. #3
    Incarnation on single-target fights, sotf in multitarget fights (4 or more).

  4. #4
    Bloodsail Admiral xtramuscle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reyzzz View Post
    Incarnation on single-target fights, sotf in multitarget fights (4 or more).
    and where exactly did you get this idea from?

    Vexxe of Old School.



    Streaming MOP raids live: (14/14HC 25Man SoO) and WOD Beta (Leveling and raid testing Heoric/Mythic) @ http://www.twitch.tv/vexxee

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by xtramuscle View Post
    and where exactly did you get this idea from?
    Trial and error.

  6. #6
    FoN is pretty strong aswell now, wrathcalcs puts it like 500dps higher than inc :P

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Drayarr View Post
    FoN is pretty strong aswell now, wrathcalcs puts it like 500dps higher than inc :P
    Does Wrathcalcs allow for proper timing of Incarnation with raid CDs (hero, potion, skull banner etc)?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    Does Wrathcalcs allow for proper timing of Incarnation with raid CDs (hero, potion, skull banner etc)?
    No idea
    I will use inc untill I see the "Pro" moonkins changing :P

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Drayarr View Post
    FoN is pretty strong aswell now, wrathcalcs puts it like 500dps higher than inc :P
    But it is clunky, annoying, buggy and has terrible AI.

  10. #10
    The Patient Uzkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reyzzz View Post
    But it [FoN] is clunky, annoying, buggy and has terrible AI.
    Therefore, SoTF and Inc should be nerfed until their damage simulates way below FoN. Fun and QoL should come at the expense of damage.

    This is not my personal opinion though; it's just how GC / Blizzard dealt with warlocks' Grimoire of Sacrifice (and how they explained the nerf).

  11. #11
    FoN is also kind of annoying to have to line up with a solar eclipse.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by OrtOrt View Post
    FoN is also kind of annoying to have to line up with a solar eclipse.
    Ehm..no? Treant Wrath doesn't benefit from our Eclipse state. At least since I last checked at 5.2 release.

  13. #13
    sotf buff is deceptive. it only shortened a whole eclipse cycle by one cast (over what it use to be)

  14. #14
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Treants are a poor choice for two reasons:

    - does not scale with eclipse
    - does not scale with multiple targets

    Most of the fights in ToT involve more than one target, so while SotF and Incarnation will multiply against these targets, Treants will do the same amount of damage. Therefore, they are quite a poor choice for this tier. If blizzard changed them so that they did a mini-chicken rotation of dotcleaving/spamming wrath, then they would be useful.

    Incarnation is the standard talent for this tier, mostly because it synergises well with HotW/NV. SotF is an ok choice, but we really can't measure if it's better than Incarnation for multi-target because we don't have that capability in WrathCalcs (yet). Hamlet's still working on the multi-target model.

    I'll leave L90 talents for another discussion.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    Ehm..no? Treant Wrath doesn't benefit from our Eclipse state. At least since I last checked at 5.2 release.
    Odd, the tooltip updates to higher numbers when in solar eclipse and it looked like they were doing more damage but I was not testing it specifically. Will have to check it out more.

  16. #16
    I personally like to take Incarnation since it's 2 dps cooldowns in one talent and if you use NV every 90 sec as it comes up it syncs up well with that too. Im wondering how much SoTF will increase the value of our mastery since untill this point i have avoided it at all costs. Not in BiS gear but 500 i lvl and am down to 1256 mastery =D. Have not found any math or threads talking about this but more time in eclipse increases our mastery value if im not mistaken. Any thoughts?

  17. #17
    You're right, it does increase Mastery's value, but not by enough to make it worth choosing over anything else. It's pretty easy to check this for your gear setup in Wrathcalcs, just change the dropdown and recalc the DPS values. It's about a 5% change in Mastery's value to use SotF, but it's still behind Haste & Crit. The fact that it only saves 1 cast really limits how much of a DPS contribution it gives you if you are doing your rotation properly.

    Interestingly, as an aside, it does take Mastery to a point where 2 x Mastery is worth more than 1 x Intellect on paper. This could have some interesting interactions with socket bonuses/enchants/etc down the road I guess.

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