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  1. #1
    High Overlord Vaelkder's Avatar
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    Resonding to a Blue Post on the Blizzard Site

    Hi everyone.

    I read as much as I could on this site, regarding Arcane Spec and keeping it as viable as possible. I can't tell everyone how much I appreciate all of their input, which helps me to understand my class and spec more thoroughly.

    That being said, I hopped over to Icy-Veins and saw the Daily Patch Section and began to read what's been happening on a daily basis.

    I was stunned when I saw the link to the Blue Posts and the 57 pages of comments, regarding the nerfs, the buffs, the wannabe buffs (for a lack of a better term for them) and the overall percentages when everything is taken into consideration.

    I am still seething over a nasty reply I received from a Blizzard Employee, when I questioned the prohibition against going into a cross-realm situation in order to join groups which were preparing to attack Oondasta. I was told that the Blizzard Development Team was all-knowing and that I, as a subscriber, had no business in questioning anything which was happening.

    I made a post on the Blizzard Site ( us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8197590653?page=57#1130 ) and am expecting to be banned at any moment (nothing new, from what I can see -- so very many people are banned when they make a well-thought post there).

    My post is following. I hope that the Mage Community here might read it and have some constructive criticism about it.

    Take care and thank you!

    I don't know what to say or to think...

    I'm still relatively new to WoW, working like crazy to learn how to play Arcane effectively, then, after finally, FINALLY, gaining the feeling of being a contributing member of a raid (185K DPS on Heroic Elegon with a kill burst of 245K), I get up the next morning and discover that I can barely pull 34K DPS, due to the poorly thought out nerfs and alterations to the Mage class.

    I attempted Fire Spec, which is totally foreign to me (as is Frost; remember, I am a NOOB), and that was awful, as I didn't have the "feel" as to how Fire (or Frost, for that matter) should be played. My numbers were abominable and I was permanently sat out of the raid team, as the Raid Leader and the Guild Council believe firmly that if a Mage cannot dish out at least 125K DPS at ALL times, then the Mage need not come to the raid, as there are many other RDPS who are very good and who bring excellent utility to a raid.

    Now, a week after this catastrophic change, when I am now completely ignored and shunned by my Guild (I changed to a new Guild two days ago, because of this ostracism), I see that the Great and Powerful Wizards of Blizz (I am being sarcastic here) have thrown a bone to the Mage community.

    I am probably a one-trick pony, in that I do enjoy playing Arcane, even though I know that it is supposed to be a "turret" DPS which is penalized for moving, with the corollary of throwing out staggering amounts of DPS when allowed to sit still and do what Mages do best. I am disgusted that I am being forced to change Specs, due to the fact that Arcane just cannot bring anything to any current content raid, outside of a body which can be killed very quickly. The fact that I am being told by so very many people that I need to change to Frost Spec, until I am at least at ilvl 505, and then switch to Fire Spec, because of the brilliant scaling, is repugnant to me. I should not have to toss away all the work that I put into the Arcane Spec of my class, and to feel that Blizzard is doing it's level best to destroy a complete class by making them completely irrelevant in World of Warcraft raiding situation, is just not good.

    I resent the fact that my questions, which I feel are relevant and pertinent, have been dismissed out of hand by the Development Team and that I have been verbally attacked by these same people who believe that nothing which any subscriber has to say about Blizzard Games is of any import.

    Honestly, if the Development Team were to step down off their collective high horses and just LOOK at what they're doing, perhaps the ancient, worn out and poorly written base coding of the World of Warcraft Game might be re-worked, streamlined and be made much more effective, rather than subjecting the millions of people who pay their monthly subscription fees (which, when you think about it, pays the salaries of these people) to ridiculous scenarios which do nothing more than create bad feelings everywhere.

    This is supposed to be a fun game, where we can all come together and share our mutual love for gaming and interactions. What it is becoming is an environment where people become so very dissatisfied with the entire genre that they end up taking out their frustrations in petty attacks on fellow players, because of the perceptions that some classes are being treated better than others.

    Please, PLEASE, do something constructive, and LISTEN to the many people who actually know what they are about when they forward suggestions about subtle improvements. No one is saying that they are better or worse than the Development Team; rather, they are attempting to be helpful with cogent arguments and ideas which would, if looked at seriously and considered in a positive light, have a very good impact on this World of Warcraft of ours.

    Thank you

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelkder View Post
    Hi everyone.

    snip

    Thank you
    These are not the official forums. I don't know what you're trying to accomplish here.

    That being said, mages are fine.

  3. #3
    so what are you wanting from the dev team>???

    all i saw in this post was "arcane is not fun anymore blah blah", you havent really come up with "what YOU want to be changed/reverted", is it the numbers?? is it the rotation?? or it is just the whole arcane 5.2???

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelkder View Post
    I'm still relatively new to WoW, working like crazy to learn how to play Arcane effectively, then, after finally, FINALLY, gaining the feeling of being a contributing member of a raid (185K DPS on Heroic Elegon with a kill burst of 245K), I get up the next morning and discover that I can barely pull 34K DPS, due to the poorly thought out nerfs and alterations to the Mage class.
    i hope your joking here........

    oh and i dunno >_> <_< arcane mages are (inb4 flaming) fine........
    http://oce.op.gg/summoner/userName=soulstrikes in oceanic now Lol

    5172-1206-0622 pokemon FC Lets Battle!!

  4. #4
    http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings/maximum#BiS mages look okay to me. Try frost instead? And I thought mages got buffed in a recent hotfix on 3/12...maybe I'm behind the times though, did something else happen in the last week?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
    And since we're dredging up old-world stuff, she should be happy she was even allowed to become a nurse at all instead of being raped.

  5. #5
    This has to be a troll post.

    First of all...you mentioned heroic elegon. A fight the vast majority of the players haven't seen.

    Then you mention doing 185k dps and then doing 34k afterwards? It sounds to me like you're sub-par player who was playing a broken spec. Frost doesn't really cast arcane spells. Fire doesn't either. There was no reason Arcane should have been using scorch. I agree with the reasoning of Blizzard.

    Furthermore, there is nothing constructive in your post...about anything. You told a nice story though.

    Finally, you're exaggerating the nerfs to Arcane. It still pulls fine numbers you just have to play it differently.

    Anyway, nothing to see her.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Psilar View Post
    This has to be a troll post.

    First of all...you mentioned heroic elegon. A fight the vast majority of the players haven't seen.

    Then you mention doing 185k dps and then doing 34k afterwards? It sounds to me like you're sub-par player who was playing a broken spec. Frost doesn't really cast arcane spells. Fire doesn't either. There was no reason Arcane should have been using scorch. I agree with the reasoning of Blizzard.

    Furthermore, there is nothing constructive in your post...about anything. You told a nice story though.

    Finally, you're exaggerating the nerfs to Arcane. It still pulls fine numbers you just have to play it differently.

    Anyway, nothing to see her.
    Arcane uses scorch weaving in regards to their stack maintenance. My boyfriend's main is a mage. I personally don't play one and tend to tune him out when he blathers on and on about his rotation, but I remember that much.

    I have no idea if mages should still be using scorch in 5.2 however.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
    And since we're dredging up old-world stuff, she should be happy she was even allowed to become a nurse at all instead of being raped.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    Arcane uses scorch weaving in regards to their stack maintenance. My boyfriend's main is a mage. I personally don't play one and tend to tune him out when he blathers on and on about his rotation, but I remember that much.

    I have no idea if mages should still be using scorch in 5.2 however.
    that was the problem.....scorch weaving..... zzzzzz ppl just got too attached to "Scorch weaving" and cant adapt to real arcane rotation :/
    http://oce.op.gg/summoner/userName=soulstrikes in oceanic now Lol

    5172-1206-0622 pokemon FC Lets Battle!!

  8. #8
    Stopped reading when you got your nose out of joint after your complaints about not being able to cross-realm mob Oondasta anymore didn't receive the attention you wanted.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-19 at 05:46 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    Arcane uses scorch weaving in regards to their stack maintenance. My boyfriend's main is a mage. I personally don't play one and tend to tune him out when he blathers on and on about his rotation, but I remember that much.

    I have no idea if mages should still be using scorch in 5.2 however.
    They can't, they made it a baseline Fire spell.

    Scorch was a way to jailbreak the intended Arcane rotation. It's like if a Rogue picked Combat Readiness it caused his abilities to cost 0 energy. Clearly unintended and needing a fix, and yet people still apparently threw tantrums about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  9. #9
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings/maximum#BiS mages look okay to me. Try frost instead? And I thought mages got buffed in a recent hotfix on 3/12...maybe I'm behind the times though, did something else happen in the last week?
    I can make a website with pretty colored bars with made up numbers if I want too

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    They can't, they made it a baseline Fire spell.

    Scorch was a way to jailbreak the intended Arcane rotation. It's like if a Rogue picked Combat Readiness it caused his abilities to cost 0 energy. Clearly unintended and needing a fix, and yet people still apparently threw tantrums about it.
    Makes sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    I can make a website with pretty colored bars with made up numbers if I want too
    Lol

    I think somewhere on the site they describe the simulation methodology but I am too lazy to look for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
    And since we're dredging up old-world stuff, she should be happy she was even allowed to become a nurse at all instead of being raped.

  11. #11
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    It's just they all uses SimC on Patchwerk fight. You can do the same on any dummies.

    The problem, is that it don't show DPS loss from movement. Hunter don't lose DPS (or little), Warlock lose a little DPS, Fire lose less than Frost that lose less than Arcane. But all 3 spec lose a lot, compared to others.
    The answers is 42
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  12. #12
    Elemental Lord Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    Arcane uses scorch weaving in regards to their stack maintenance. My boyfriend's main is a mage. I personally don't play one and tend to tune him out when he blathers on and on about his rotation, but I remember that much.

    I have no idea if mages should still be using scorch in 5.2 however.
    Arcane and Frost can Scorch in 5.2? What?

    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    I can make a website with pretty colored bars with made up numbers if I want too
    That's the first thing I was thinking.

    PS: Anyone who links or even speaks positively of Noxxic will NOT be taken seriously by players who know what they're doing (at least until Noxxic stops being the epitome of fail)

    Progression pre-nerfed: [T17] 6/7H; 0/10N

  13. #13
    http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings/maximum#BiS

    http://simulationcraft.org/520/Raid_T15H.html

    Pretty much the same order, don't confuse your own ignorance with how something is done with it being wrong.
    "The fact that you don't get it or like it is fine. The fact that you wanna ruin it for everyone else - that's why you're a cocksucker." - Bill Hicks
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    The playerbase has been desiring this for years and when it's finally here, everyone wants to grab a pitchfork. Ridiculous. This community is disgustingly toxic.
    Please send all PM's with a read receipt, that way both you and I will know I'm not reading them....

  14. #14
    Elemental Lord Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mooboy View Post
    http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings/maximum#BiS

    http://simulationcraft.org/520/Raid_T15H.html

    Pretty much the same order, don't confuse your own ignorance with how something is done with it being wrong.
    A. Barely any fights are patchwerk style. If you didn't know, "Patchwerk" = NO MOVEMENT WHATSOEVER. That means you never once touch your WASD keys nor move your character in any way.

    B. Lolsims, the same exact thing that said Fire was literally in last place in 5.1 after the CM nerf IN BIS GEAR, WHEN WE ALL KNOW THAT WASN'T TRUE. (Noxxic also reported the same thing. BiS H T14 post CM nerf, Fire was in super dead last)

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-19 at 05:36 AM ----------

    Want proof of how fail noxxic is? Take one look at this: http://www.noxxic.com/wow/pve/mage/f...ild-and-glyphs

    Living Bomb, RoP, Arcane Explosion Glyph. Yeah. I'm going to blindly follow this site that tells me wrong information.

    (Frost swaps LB with NT, but still has RoP and AE glyph. It also says IV glyph is "required", despite that only being at H T14/T15 gear, and didn't bother to talk about WE Glyph. Also, PoM is the worst choice for Frost, as BS and IF are vastly superior)
    Last edited by Polarthief; 2013-03-19 at 09:37 AM.

    Progression pre-nerfed: [T17] 6/7H; 0/10N

  15. #15
    As said before, Sims are not representative at all because they look at Patchwerk fights. From my raiding experience in ToT so far, I can tell you it's quite movement heavy here and there. To add to the above posters, it also uses Best in Slot gear, gear the large majority of mages will not collect fully. Heck, most won't even get half. We all know (we being the ones who know how mages work) that fire scales insanely well. Just getting 522 crit gear in every slot will help immensely. But again, the average mage will take a while to get even that. We're being balanced around the high end raiders filling their slots in 2-3 weeks. And while I'm not doing too shabby (3/13 heroic with Ji Kun dying tonight), there has to be a better solution.

    I do have to say I'm nearing a place where with decent RNG I can keep up with the raid, and I raid with people who get 95-100 percentile on most bosses at least once.

  16. #16
    I'm aware of what a patchwork style fight is, and although that's not realistic in game explain to me (given that the way things are tested is explained on both sites...) how that makes the numbers 'made up'?
    "The fact that you don't get it or like it is fine. The fact that you wanna ruin it for everyone else - that's why you're a cocksucker." - Bill Hicks
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    The playerbase has been desiring this for years and when it's finally here, everyone wants to grab a pitchfork. Ridiculous. This community is disgustingly toxic.
    Please send all PM's with a read receipt, that way both you and I will know I'm not reading them....

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Mooboy View Post
    I'm aware of what a patchwork style fight is, and although that's not realistic in game explain to me (given that the way things are tested is explained on both sites...) how that makes the numbers 'made up'?
    Yeah.. Noxxic said WW Monk and Frost would be top dps in Tier14, how was that ?

    Of course SimC and Noxxic are gonna be the same, Noxxic numbers ARE SimC numbers.

    Stop being impoilite and attack anyone thats says Noxxic is BS, because it IS.

    There's several reasons why Raidbot > Noxxic/SimC BiS numbers :

    - Those numbers are made with T15BiS gear, there's some spec that scales a lot, and some don't. So you'll have for example Fire pretty high, cause it scales so much, but on an "average" ilvl, it'll do subpar dps, hence, why those numbers aren't reliable
    - Patchwerk fight, some classes/spec dps numbers are significantly lower when having to move, some classes don't care that much, so, same thing, not reliable
    - Some rotations on some spec (because, if i'm not mistaken, its not one person updating all the classes/spec on simc, its multipes by class/spec) are wrong. So it might end up giving the wrong numbers, so, not reliable either.
    - DPS is inextricably linked to boss mechanics, on some mechanics some classes are heavily favoring because they can have a better uptime on DPSing the boss/adds or w/e, or being able to multidot/aoe well.
    - Last (that I think of), and not least. Just LOOK at those numbers. Assa being middle/low, balance too, shadow bottom, warlock meh.. Does it look like it in raids/raidbot ? Not at all.

    Noxxis ISNT reliable at all, I don't know how they skill screw up like this, but it's not. PLEASE stop linking Noxxic beautifull little rainbow and taking it like the word of god.
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  18. #18
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    I feel like this has been said a billion times, but saying it again:

    Simcraft is amazing for comparing deltas, or changes, of say: adding a trinket, dropping a talent, changing your gems.

    Simcraft is crap for doing what most lazy people claim: saying what class is best at a fight, or how much DPS you'll do overall.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    Stop being impoilite and attack anyone thats says Noxxic is BS, because it IS.
    First take the time to read the thread, if you can find me saying Noxxic is 100% accurate I'll PayPal you £10.

    I haven't talked about the information (outside of the DPS chart) on the site because it's not the point I was talking to, most of it could be rubbish, but we're talking about the DPS charts.

    What I point out is that the numbers aren't "made up" as someone said, they're fine within the constraints of how they've been tested, if you don't agree with how they've been tested that's fine, but they aren't "made up"

    Are they realistic, of course not, you'd be foolish to try and say they are, but does that make them "made up"?
    "The fact that you don't get it or like it is fine. The fact that you wanna ruin it for everyone else - that's why you're a cocksucker." - Bill Hicks
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    The playerbase has been desiring this for years and when it's finally here, everyone wants to grab a pitchfork. Ridiculous. This community is disgustingly toxic.
    Please send all PM's with a read receipt, that way both you and I will know I'm not reading them....

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Mooboy View Post
    First take the time to read the thread, if you can find me saying Noxxic is 100% accurate I'll PayPal you £10.

    I haven't talked about the information (outside of the DPS chart) on the site because it's not the point I was talking to, most of it could be rubbish, but we're talking about the DPS charts.

    What I point out is that the numbers aren't "made up" as someone said, they're fine within the constraints of how they've been tested, if you don't agree with how they've been tested that's fine, but they aren't "made up"

    Are they realistic, of course not, you'd be foolish to try and say they are, but does that make them "made up"?
    Of course they're not . They're just wrong and useless for almost any intents and purposes ^^.
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

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