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  1. #1

    Is Frost spec now the top DPS spec instead of fire in ToT?

    The way I understood it - fire was tops once you got a certain gear level. Currently tho simulationcraft shows arcane as top (in a Patchwerk fight which we don't have many of this tier) and frost like 11-12k ahead of fire at the top. I know sims run in patchwork mode but from what Im seeing frost is more dps than fire both at low gear levels and higher - is that correct? Also with some movement it looks like frost is still outdoing fire. In normal mode 25M guild should I swap from fire to frost spec for optimum DPS?

  2. #2
    The three specs are pretty even at this point.If you are looking for more consistent performance, frost is the spec to go.
    Arcane is also good after the bomb buffs, but it's hard to dps with so much movement in ToT encounters.
    I do believe fire will pull ahead significantly once you can hit the crit rating threshold. And as well, due to RNG, fire's deeps are not as consistent as frost.

  3. #3
    Frost does higher dps at average ilvl (sub 510), from there you got enough crit rating and fire skyrockets and leave frost way behind .

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  4. #4
    Frost has scaling that is terrible.

    Fire has scaling that is too good (i reached 38% crit on my ilevel 514 Mage this reset and by god the spec is fun again) that Blizzard keeps trying to nerf it, which is not so fun.

    I hope in 5.3 (or 5.4) that Blizz tackles both issues because they are serious design flaws.

  5. #5
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    Seen some mages with 34%crit unbuffed, that's roughly 45% fully buffed. Also we cant forget critical mass which increases crit with 1.2(says on live)
    which means 1.45*1.2=1,74. 74%crit? we are back in ICC. They will probably remove critical mass soon, since we get too much crit atm. Will hurt for lower geared players including myself but in full "normal"-gear from ToT it's gonna be nice.

  6. #6
    What is the crit threshold needed to make fire > frost?

  7. #7
    Keyboard Turner Ashtricks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aranthar View Post
    Seen some mages with 34%crit unbuffed, that's roughly 45% fully buffed. Also we cant forget critical mass which increases crit with 1.2(says on live)
    which means 1.45*1.2=1,74. 74%crit? we are back in ICC. They will probably remove critical mass soon, since we get too much crit atm. Will hurt for lower geared players including myself but in full "normal"-gear from ToT it's gonna be nice.
    Unless you r trying to be comical, I would rather advise you to check you mathematical knowledge. 34% crit is translated as 0.34 Not 1.34 that you r stating. Thus 0.34 critical chance X 1.3 of CM = 0.442 aka 44.2% on lvl 90 mobs

  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aranthar View Post
    Seen some mages with 34%crit unbuffed, that's roughly 45% fully buffed. Also we cant forget critical mass which increases crit with 1.2(says on live)
    which means 1.45*1.2=1,74. 74%crit? we are back in ICC. They will probably remove critical mass soon, since we get too much crit atm. Will hurt for lower geared players including myself but in full "normal"-gear from ToT it's gonna be nice.

    I curious to see some armory links as in BiS gear you are sitting around 35-36% crit unbuffed, this is in full 541+4pcT15@535.

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  9. #9
    Elemental Lord Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xiaozhi40 View Post
    The three specs are pretty even at this point.If you are looking for more consistent performance, frost is the spec to go.
    Arcane is also good after the bomb buffs, but it's hard to dps with so much movement in ToT encounters.
    I do believe fire will pull ahead significantly once you can hit the crit rating threshold. And as well, due to RNG, fire's deeps are not as consistent as frost.
    Wait, what?

    If you think ALL THREE speccs are EVEN, then you're not playing at a competitive level.

    Arcane is shit on nearly every fight. Even with the bomb buff, it still isn't "good".

    When you're ungeared, Frost is BEAST. It scales horribly with gear, so Fire comes out as top dog, especially at 40%+ crit.

    Some fights however are just made to go Frost and we will probably have these in T16 as well; Tortos being the "omg go Frost now", fight.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-22 at 08:08 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by aranthar View Post
    Seen some mages with 34%crit unbuffed, that's roughly 45% fully buffed. Also we cant forget critical mass which increases crit with 1.2(says on live)
    I think you mean 34% BUFFED (10% from MA and AB/DB). Also, Critical Mass is 1.3x (was gonna be nerfed to 1.2x, but they forgot to fix the tooltip. It's been confirmed by GC as 1.3x)

    Progression pre-nerfed: [T17] 6/7H; 0/10N

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post

    Some fights however are just made to go Frost and we will probably have these in T16 as well; Tortos being the "omg go Frost now", fight.[COLOR="red"]
    Probably in 10 man? In 25, having melee/warlocks take care of bats is enough. Spreading combustion to all 3 whirl turtles as they come out (providing your timing is good) is better than frost bomb/shattering bats. Especially the initial spawns.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtricks View Post
    Unless you r trying to be comical, I would rather advise you to check you mathematical knowledge. 34% crit is translated as 0.34 Not 1.34 that you r stating. Thus 0.34 critical chance X 1.3 of CM = 0.442 aka 44.2% on lvl 90 mobs
    I'm sorry wasn't thinking whne I made the calculations but its still 45% fully buffed which is: 0.45*1.3=58,5% crit

    Quote Originally Posted by Saegno View Post
    I curious to see some armory links as in BiS gear you are sitting around 35-36% crit unbuffed, this is in full 541+4pcT15@535.
    the best one I could take up with rather low t15 gear was Ataxus from Blood Legion, he is at 526ilvl with 33%crit UNBUFFED
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...taxus/advanced

  12. #12
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aranthar View Post
    I'm sorry wasn't thinking whne I made the calculations but its still 45% fully buffed which is: 0.45*1.3=58,5% crit



    the best one I could take up with rather low t15 gear was Ataxus from Blood Legion, he is at 526ilvl with 33%crit UNBUFFED
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...taxus/advanced
    My bad, BiS caps around 39-40%. I was figuring in crit suppression >_<.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
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  13. #13
    I blow away frost and fire alike with arcane (513 ilvl)

  14. #14
    Bloodsail Admiral spaace's Avatar
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    15000 crit rating is nice. not even that huge though.


    I think its about 40% unbuffed in heroic thunderforged optimized gear.. maybe even up to 42%
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  15. #15
    Im at ilvl 514 and having alot of fun with fire again

  16. #16
    We can expect another nerf to fires crit modifier in the next few weeks. Unless it is major it wont be enough to have frost jump over fire though. Even now fire is beating frost in WoL scans by a fairly big margin. Sure some of those ppl have 515+ item lvls but not many.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-22 at 02:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by aranthar View Post
    Ataxus from Blood Legion, he is at 526ilvl with 33%crit UNBUFFED
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...taxus/advanced
    It is rather funny and a bit sad that in less then 3 weeks he has a better item lvl then many ppl will get to until the next tier of raids or the valor boosting npc comes back.

    Buffed up and with CM factored in he must just chain off HU/HS.
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  17. #17
    Elemental Lord Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rethys View Post
    Probably in 10 man? In 25, having melee/warlocks take care of bats is enough. Spreading combustion to all 3 whirl turtles as they come out (providing your timing is good) is better than frost bomb/shattering bats. Especially the initial spawns.
    Well duh in 10m :3

    On 25m, players could just sit on Horridon full time while a set group would clean up adds. Try doing that in 10... *Shudders*

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-23 at 02:26 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrven View Post
    We can expect another nerf to fires crit modifier in the next few weeks. Unless it is major it wont be enough to have frost jump over fire though. Even now fire is beating frost in WoL scans by a fairly big margin. Sure some of those ppl have 515+ item lvls but not many.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-22 at 02:57 PM ----------



    It is rather funny and a bit sad that in less then 3 weeks he has a better item lvl then many ppl will get to until the next tier of raids or the valor boosting npc comes back.

    Buffed up and with CM factored in he must just chain off HU/HS.
    It's getting really annoying to have CM constantly nerfed. I don't feel my character getting stronger when he gets knocked down a few steps after getting up a few.

    Also, Mages are still lower than most others... It's only with our top RNG that we're good, and this goes for all 3 specc, but Fire more than the other two.

    Hell, our most recent parse of Durumu had me UNDER THE TANK! (I had HORRIBLE RNG on my Combustions, while the whole night, I had AMAZING RNG. Check out my wipe parses compared to the kill)

    Progression pre-nerfed: [T17] 6/7H; 0/10N

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrven View Post

    It is rather funny and a bit sad that in less then 3 weeks he has a better item lvl then many ppl will get to until the next tier of raids or the valor boosting npc comes back.

    Buffed up and with CM factored in he must just chain off HU/HS.
    Yea, I don't Inferno Blast very much . Maybe every 2-4 Inferno Blast cooldowns worth. I'm mainly lucky I coined the Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance, as we haven't seen one in 10ish kills of Dark Animus.


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  19. #19
    Arcane is still better than fire and frost. It just takes skill to play it correctly......

  20. #20
    Wow new simcraft is showing frost 20k ahead of fire in BiS gear! 520-4

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