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  1. #41
    Lets repeat few things i keep saying in all relevant topics :

    The issue is rdruid in 25man especially 6 to 7 man heal when setup consists more than 1 disc 1 hpala (worse case scenario 2 discs 1 holy 2 hpalas and 1 resto or 2 discs 2 hpalas 1 rshaman and rdruid)

    Why? illuminating healing and bubbles > hots , rshaman can cover 3 to 4 heavy damage incoming periods e.g. rampage and 2 disc can cover same with spirit shell .

    Try to snipe a traquility with revival from monks in a period like that and without a revival (from monks) to see the difference. Basically right now unless we are allowed by cd rotation to heal with traq + mushrooms without any other cds (which makes life harder in 25man ~~ less harder i think 10man ) up we are good ? When can this happen ? in 5 healer fights (25man) or 2 man heals (10man)

    Someone mention nourish and healing touch ? Havent cast nourish in months i really dont know why they havent try to make it more desirable as a spell and in general give us more options for healing touch.. i dont think there is any druid who is actually casting healing touch to decrease swiftmend (if glyphed healing touch).. Only use is 3 to 5 times (or more) with nature swiftness.

    So basically while we have ironbark to give to tanks or dps taking huge damage nobody even asks for that anymore. Yes we have utility esp in 10man but unless your raid knows how to best use you (and to be honest i dont think most rleaders care to pay attention of benefits of rdruid since they only care to survive damage with cds or strong healing from discs) as a raider we are bench warmers in an equal skill roster.

    Discs,hpala - priority (3-4 spots)
    1 monk at least
    1 rshaman (for cds) even if its abit problematic now in comparison to ds .

    Rdruid if others are crap players or they lack healers . This is the truth for 25man currently and i really hope some restos with heroic kills can back me up in what i said so far.

  2. #42
    As a 10 man healer i feel all right. True is, that:

    - cast nourish only for reset harmony proc when you got time for that
    - healing touch is only an ikon on your spell book never used for 5.1 or 5.2 patch
    - mushrooms for some fights are pretty nice, but for like 50% of encounters you don´t have time to use 3xGCD to stack it during encounters

    I agree, that if i will be preparing a 25man raid I will count for sure with pala/disco/monk. To be clear there is no reason to have there druids or shamans. Even because some CD - the others have them too and they will be better for the rest of the fights after.

    For now Rdruid is quite good for 10 man groups, for 25 hardly to believe it.

  3. #43
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    I am mostly in agreement with whats said in this thread. The fact is our hots are very much negated by shields on discs/palas which have a lot more utility. Having said that I still find myself doing some impressive HPS in 10 mans simply cause blanketing rejuv is actually still viable in 10 mans. Where as 25 mans blanketing Rejuv kills mana fast.
    One of the things im slightly loathed to do is change my 2 set bonus on my tier 14 cause the mana cost reduction on rejuv is so good and the 2 set bonus for tier 15 seems somewhat situational.

    So I'd say we are fine as 10 man healers but agree we really need some sort of buff for 25 man, also im with you that say mushrooms are a pain 3 gcds is just to much for something that has that a piddly area of effect like they do :P

    Oh and give me a break on nourish its so bad its almost a joke why would you waste the cast time to cast this spell? You dont even need to use it as a harmony proc spell we have way better viable options like swiftmend.

    Also my raid leader didnt even know Ironbark existed till I piped up and he still thinks its a joke.
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  4. #44
    It also depends on what tank you heal with. Deathruler's log on Magaera only really had secondary healing from the DK AND their total eHPS was over 300k. (139,695,612 total dmg taken - 7:18) Compared to my logs from last week, we rshaman, rdruid, dpriest heal as well. Our raid only did a total of 263k eHPS (132,853,161 total dmg taken - 8:05) and 15.9% of that was a Paladin Tank (20,441,274 15.91%). Paladin tanks also will take away general healing hots can eat up. Also a guardian druid that did 7.8% - 10mil, compared to their only 4th source of healing, DK, doing 15mil at 11.4% of their total.

    All in all i do feel any class that doesn't have absorbs is misrepresented, considering absorb classes still have solid throughput. Who wants to heal dmg when you can just prevent it? I'm still rooting for druids to bring something else to the table again, or at least slightly more throughput, but im not really sure that's as effective. Tranq i think isn't nearly as strong as it used to be - and again that's a HPS CD, nothing preventing dmg. Shaman's are pretty misrepresented too, but generally more frequent - +health buff and spirit link alone i think on paper is better.

    We only 3 heal a few fights with an offspec undergeared rshaman, mainly cause our dps isn't an issue. But between a paladin tank and a disc priest that knows what they're doing i generally don't see high numbers even on the 2 heal fights. As fun as that is, we still kill stuff currently starting H Horridon. But i really wish they would give us that edge back, absorbs really are the star this expansion.

  5. #45
    I agree that tranq is pretty disappointing... if u compare it to a shaman totem or revival its defo the weakest of the 3

    tranq has to be channeled, standing still and its still weaker than a shaman totem that u just place down and let it do tis thing

    only time i feel tranq is strong is when u combine it with SOTF + symbisos a shaman... it shortens the channel time, can cast while walkin, and the extra haste gives u a lot more ticks of the hot part from tranq

    if u do a soft tranq then a normal tranq ull understand wot im talkin about.

    for example on say magera rampage.. raid is 20%.. cast normal tranq, ppls hp doesnt rly move.. cast a soft tranq and ppl are normally full hp

  6. #46
    Rduid from a 25man guild with a disc and three hpallys.

    I just gave up. Right now I am mainly there as a needed dispeller and part of the CD rotation. What I do inbetween dispelling and popping my CD on time, matters little.

    Ten mans? no problem I feel fine and comfort in my job. Just looking at four different abosrbs on my buff bar just makes me die a little in side.

  7. #47
    it really is just game mechanics where absorbs get calculated first. there was a time when absorbs were weak and druid hots were prioritized over everything else and they dominated recount cause of it...shoes on the other foot now.

    but i agree, some new mechanics are needed. personally, i love for them to start having living seed interact with all crits; it can be our absorb.

  8. #48
    Few suggestions (1 or 2 of them used not all together)

    1) Increase mushrooms area of effect (range)
    2) Make traq give seeds to everyone (seeds of 30k each) & give us the option to reduce cd on traq with a glyph but reduce number of people reached/healed
    3) Buff living seed 20% more healing
    4) Increase crit % of healing touch and nourish
    5) Reduce cost of healing touch and nourish by 20%
    6) Make mushrooms heal each person for the ammount stored (reduce max healing that can be stored to 80k each to counteract spirit shell or increase cd so we cant use mushrooms very often e.g. 1 min cd 80k heals to people on range)

    Just few things that will help us more than 10% more healing (what were they thinking? buffing our overhealing ???) . Even 1 of them alone would be more useful

    p.s. 4-5 could be together.
    Last edited by apostoloss; 2013-03-24 at 04:16 AM.

  9. #49
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    Just throwing this out there...

    But I'd like to see Living Seed redesigned. Instead of planting a seed on a direct heal crit, what about allowing rejuv to put some percentage of its overhealing into a living seed on the target so casting a hot isn't a complete waste? Target takes damage, you rejuv, but of course the damage is healed up in two seconds flat...so the rest of your rejuv goes into a living seed. Next time the target takes damage, it is partially mitigated by the seed.

    Then do something else with the mushrooms. Preferably, give us a spell that is less annoying to use.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by apostoloss View Post
    Few suggestions (1 or 2 of them used not all together)

    1) Increase mushrooms area of effect (range)
    2) Make traq give seeds to everyone (seeds of 30k each) & give us the option to reduce cd on traq with a glyph but reduce number of people reached/healed
    3) Buff living seed 20% more healing
    4) Increase crit % of healing touch and nourish
    5) Reduce cost of healing touch and nourish by 20%
    6) Make mushrooms heal each person for the ammount stored (reduce max healing that can be stored to 80k each to counteract spirit shell or increase cd so we cant use mushrooms very often e.g. 1 min cd 80k heals to people on range)

    Just few things that will help us more than 10% more healing (what were they thinking? buffing our overhealing ???) . Even 1 of them alone would be more useful

    p.s. 4-5 could be together.
    Let seeds have unlimited duration on player, have them only bloom when the player with the seed goes below 70% hp or something, there competitive overhearing mechanic
    and allow NS to plant 3 mushrooms in 1 gcd.
    Last edited by Skadovsk; 2013-03-24 at 08:27 AM.

  11. #51
    In normal/hc raids sure druid may have some problems, but in LFR ? There are usually 2-3 healers struggling to reach 25k hps in a group. You can average 40k+ hps during LFR run with resto druid without gear. 60k-70k hps on some bosses at 480 ilvl. Some priest, pala even monk can beat you, but you shouldn't feel redundant in LFR. Unless you got grouped up with some dream team healer group. That does not happen often.

    What is disappointing is that the whole resto kit is so awkward. You throw around rejuvs when ppl take damage, swiftmend melee guys since they are usually the ones stacked up, cast wg on cd when raid takes damage and then what. Upkeeping LB stacks is ok, but often it overheals and moving it around cost gcds. Nourish is worth casting only when nobody takes damage and you need to refresh mastery, ht is not worth casting ever, glyphed regrowth has no mechanic to play around.

    tl;dr Rejuv, WG, Swiftmend ... so far so good for heavy damage fights and then lb, nourish, regrowth, ht ... awkward.

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  12. #52
    Bloodsail Admiral Neliah's Avatar
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    I play a resto druid in a 10 man team, and we are of course accompanied by a holy paladin and a disc priest.. I do admit that all the shielding from the priest and paladin are really frustrating, and they are frustrating quite often. My overheals on meters are completely idiotic because my HoT's won't actually heal, because they keep getting shielded. I like the shieldning mechanic they have, but I find it quite unfair that my HoT's are being ignored and counted as overhealing because of these 2 classes.
    The amount of times I waste a CD to throw a big instant heal is -always- counted into overhealing. Not because my heal is "too big", but my hot's can't match their shieldning abilities.
    I've thought of rerolling quite a few times to either a disc priest or a holy paladin, because it's just starting to seem extremely pointless to have HoT's when you're grouped up with 2 classes that always manages to steal the heal so to speak.

    That being said, I do my job good in 10 mans and I always either compete closely or kick the paladins ass in healing, but I kinda lost my faith in HoT's since it's obvious that it's shields & absorbs > my HoT's.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neliah View Post
    I play a resto druid in a 10 man team, and we are of course accompanied by a holy paladin and a disc priest.. I do admit that all the shielding from the priest and paladin are really frustrating, and they are frustrating quite often. My overheals on meters are completely idiotic because my HoT's won't actually heal, because they keep getting shielded. I like the shieldning mechanic they have, but I find it quite unfair that my HoT's are being ignored and counted as overhealing because of these 2 classes.
    The amount of times I waste a CD to throw a big instant heal is -always- counted into overhealing. Not because my heal is "too big", but my hot's can't match their shieldning abilities.
    I've thought of rerolling quite a few times to either a disc priest or a holy paladin, because it's just starting to seem extremely pointless to have HoT's when you're grouped up with 2 classes that always manages to steal the heal so to speak.

    That being said, I do my job good in 10 mans and I always either compete closely or kick the paladins ass in healing, but I kinda lost my faith in HoT's since it's obvious that it's shields & absorbs > my HoT's.
    feel the same for me bro lol

    here somes WoL from a 3 raid days 10 mans ..

    Day 1 Full Gear`Gem spirit/mastery
    3 Healing HeroicJin'rokh the Breaker 10H (05:56)

    Day 2 Full Gear`Gem spirit/mastery
    3 Healing Council of Elders 10N (06:23)
    2 Healing with Holy Paladin Tortos 10N (04:08)
    3 Healing Megaera 10N (06:55)
    2Healing Ji-Kun 10N (06:11)
    3 Healing Durumu the Forgotten 10N (07:18)


    Day 3 4-5P Resto and rest of gear boomkin with Crit gems..
    3 Healing Iron Qon 10N (11:55)
    3 Healing Lei Shen 10N (09:27)
    3 Healing Lei Shi 10H (05:45)
    Last edited by zdignity; 2013-03-24 at 04:06 PM.

  14. #54
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    Is anyone posting about this on the WoW healing forums? I would, but I'm banned.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanist View Post
    Just throwing this out there...

    But I'd like to see Living Seed redesigned. Instead of planting a seed on a direct heal crit, what about allowing rejuv to put some percentage of its overhealing into a living seed on the target so casting a hot isn't a complete waste? Target takes damage, you rejuv, but of course the damage is healed up in two seconds flat...so the rest of your rejuv goes into a living seed. Next time the target takes damage, it is partially mitigated by the seed.
    Love it. Tie this to mastery instead of the flat bonus that exists now, call it a day. As long as it's still inefficient to blanket Rejuv, this would give us a fantastic tool that's mechanically similar to what's so strong about absorbs while still feeling quite different.

  16. #56
    The Patient Taiknee's Avatar
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    I know exactly how you feel. Resto druids just do not compare to other healers right now. If they could change the mastery to something not so wasteful, it could probably help, but right now, if someone is getting bursted, the only way you're going to save them on a resto druid is if you can spam regrowth or go tree form and spam insta regrowth. It's just in a really bad spot compared to how powerful other healers are right now.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Taiknee View Post
    I know exactly how you feel. Resto druids just do not compare to other healers right now. If they could change the mastery to something not so wasteful, it could probably help, but right now, if someone is getting bursted, the only way you're going to save them on a resto druid is if you can spam regrowth or go tree form and spam insta regrowth. It's just in a really bad spot compared to how powerful other healers are right now.
    I'm not saying anyone is wrong at all. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I dont understand what everyone's expectations are for resto druids. I always felt like a resto's job was to help stabalize damage in the raid. And I feel we do that very well right now. Plus they gave us Ironbark which addressed us lacking a castable damage reduction CD. Plus they revampled mushrooms, and allowed RJ overhealing to have a purpose, which was the main complaint for people at the time. I will be the first to admit mushrooms are not the best mechanic, but its sooo much better than it was.

    We aren't meant to save people getting bursted. We are meant to stabilize damage so that the people who are meant to save people getting bursted don't have to do it as frequently. And after the 5.2 buffs, I think this style of healing is representing us well on the hps charts....unless the group is just really overgeared or minimal damage is going out. And in those instances, who cares.

    I do really like alot of the recommendations being presented and think they would make our gameplay better. I'm not saying we are perfect, but alot of the people who are complaining just seem like the resto style is not right for them. They would more enjoy a different style of healing. I dont want our hot overheals to turn into shields. Shields are for disc/pally. I like having unique classes. I think there is already too much homogenization...alot more than when i started playing. So lets not complain about how we aren't like other classes. If we as restos are considerably below other classes in healing potential, i could understand. But we aren't as of 5.2. We might be less hps on meters in situations where we are outgearing fights or there is low damage going out, but if you care about that, then its not the right class. When peoples health is not at full, we are just as effective in bringing it up as the other classes. We just do it in a different manner, with hots. I personally love it. Thats why my main has been a resto druid for quite awhile.

    When DS came out, i raided with a disc priest and a pally. When we were barely getting bosses down at first, my hps was tops. But by the 15th run with much better gear, the disc priest was killing me in hps. Except on spine with all the damage. But we were one shotting everything every time, so who cares???

    And I love the post above complaining about shields vs hots, then finishing by saying he always destroys the pally in healing. Please blizz, let me destroy everybody even more. ???????????

  18. #58
    Just to remind you that pala and disc style has changed alot over the last years so why not the druids style ?

    We also saying that while some changes were made tell me one serious guild that would't prefer having an easier kill = pala+disc (10man) or 2 x hpalas 2 x discs (25man) . Would anyone select two druids for harder content instead of 2 hpalas or 2 discs (or 1 holy 1 disc) i dont think so. Thats where our problem is . Do you think our traq (which is channeled and 3min cd) enough to keep a raid up ? Let me remind you that even in previous tier they were fights that a disc priest could keep a raid topped alone e.g. first boss hof heroic, could a resto do that?

    We also have less spells to heal (which are useable) than other classes just compare logs to see how many spells we use (situation abit better in 5.2) to see how badly design our class is . People dont even remember what nourish is or doing and in 5.2 blizz is pushing towards rejuv blanket , throw a swiftmend and wild growth is this what a healing class suppose to do ? Yes game has change to less buttons and spells but while we have been given more tools for versatility how many times people use symbiosis spell they gain or ask for ironbark? Not to mention that our talents for cc etc are not working in all adds in boss fights.

    I saw a change in force of nature in ptr which i did't understand something about trees casting a swiftmend..if that is the case it might make trees more valuable.

    I still think traquility should be 2.5 mins and not channeled to fit fights more.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by apostoloss View Post
    Just to remind you that pala and disc style has changed alot over the last years so why not the druids style ?

    We also saying that while some changes were made tell me one serious guild that would't prefer having an easier kill = pala+disc (10man) or 2 x hpalas 2 x discs (25man) . Would anyone select two druids for harder content instead of 2 hpalas or 2 discs (or 1 holy 1 disc) i dont think so. Thats where our problem is . Do you think our traq (which is channeled and 3min cd) enough to keep a raid up ? Let me remind you that even in previous tier they were fights that a disc priest could keep a raid topped alone e.g. first boss hof heroic, could a resto do that?
    If Blizzard insists on keeping a HoT class in a game now dominated by shields they need to massively shorten the duration of the HoTs by at least 400%.

  20. #60
    Resto druid's strength isn't in burst healing but sustained constant healing. Looking at meters is quite pointless as it doesn't tell you the efficiency of the heals. If your goal is to kill a boss then you are doing ok as long as bosses go down. If your goal is to rank meters then just 2 heal the fights (1 heal for certain encounters). Imo, resto druid is the strongest healer for a 1 to 2 heal setup.

    I do wish we can move mushrooms around or grow mushroom on raid members. Stationary mushroom is quite difficult to use. Though mushrooms heals for a lot when fully charged.
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