Thread: Multi-Dotting

  1. #1

    Multi-Dotting

    With the risk of this being an FAQ (which I was unable to find in the forum stickies and recent posts): what is the stance on frost/NT and multidotting?

    Casually browsing the recent DOT discussions mages seem to imply that multi dotting is not efficient. How come a single DOT (without buffing component) can be beneficial as dmg vs. GCD cost, while multiple DOTs might no longer be?

  2. #2
    If you're talking about Frost, I imagine it is because only your most recently applied Nether Tempest has the chance to proc Brain Freeze.
    Code:
    while (flamingPeople)
    {
         ePenis++;
    }

  3. #3
    It's worthwhile on Council, not sure about any other fight though (with nether tempest)
    You could use LvB or FrB on Horridon and Tortos (maybe Primordius)

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Minusmagier View Post
    ... How come a single DOT (without buffing component) can be beneficial as dmg vs. GCD cost, while multiple DOTs might no longer be?
    NT (and the other bombs) proc Brainfreeze. Instant FFBs are huge damage. So the bombs must be allways up. The problem is that BF only procs from the last bomb u cast. So u dont get more procs by casting more bombs. Thats the maindifference.

  5. #5
    High Overlord Aqacia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    133
    For fire; Before they buffed the Mage Bomb's damage, I had read that if you were DPSing 1-2 targets, Nether tempest was your best choice and keeping the bomb up on both targets all the time was optimal. When you were attacking 3-4 targets, Living Bomb was your best choice. Keep the bombs up on 3 targets 100% of the time. When you attack 5+ targets, Frost bomb was your best choice. Use it on cooldown all the time.

    Is this still the case? Or since they nerfed Living bomb spread, is it worth going with Nether Tempest for 1-4 targets, and Frost bomb for 5+? Never Living bomb?

    With the + % dmg on our mage bombs, I guess its even more important to keep bombs up on multiple targets, i.e. multidotting.

  6. #6
    I cant imagine any situation, why Living Bomb should be better than NT. Living Bomb was the optimum at 5.1 with spreading it simply but this advantage has been removed.

    Frost bomb is good with 5+ Target, but they should be freezable. Without Freeze you need about 7+ Targets to get better than any other bomb.

  7. #7
    High Overlord Aqacia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    133
    Quote Originally Posted by Lobo View Post
    I cant imagine any situation, why Living Bomb should be better than NT. Living Bomb was the optimum at 5.1 with spreading it simply but this advantage has been removed.

    Frost bomb is good with 5+ Target, but they should be freezable. Without Freeze you need about 7+ Targets to get better than any other bomb.
    Exactly. I cant either see why LB would be better then NT at any situation with the spread nerf.

    But lets say its a fight with 4 freezable mobs. What is optimal? Should I keep Nether Tempest up on all 100% of the time, or should I only put it on 2 still? Should I not bother with Mage Bombs at all and just spam Cone of Cold/Dragons Breath/Flamestriket/Arcane Explosion???


    You see my point? At what amount of targets should I use which bomb? And at specific amounts of targets, like 3-4, is it even worth bothering putting up mage bombs? Personally, I guess it is worth putting NT up on all the time if you have 1-4 targets since they buffed mage bomb % damage, and if its 5+, spam Frost Bomb. Ofcourse, I hvnt done the math on any of this.

    Thoughts?

  8. #8
    If you want to know if multi-dotting is beneficial, go look at the logs from the top parsing mages on multi add fights and do some math. NT ticks for 12 seconds and most of them will be at 16 ticks (15 at worse).

    Take their bomb up-time x fight time / 12 / = # of ticks on 1 target during the fight. If their total # of ticks greatly outweighs this, than they're multi dotting the crap outta things.

    Taking the top ranking frost mage on Horridon for the US - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...e=1347#Ricotta

    95.7% x 542 seconds / 12 = 43.xxx - Round to 44. 44x16 = 704. But, according to his logs, total ticks on NT bomb were 1514.

    All I'm saying is that if the top parsing mages are multi-dotting, I'm just gonna follow their lead. Hope that helps.

  9. #9
    High Overlord Aqacia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    133
    Horridon is a bad example. The adds are commonly very spread out, which makes LB a bad decision either way. Im looking for someone who can do/have done the math on when a specific mage bomb is optimal during what amount of mobs you're attacking with the new +% dmg on mage bombs in mind.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Spazzster View Post

    All I'm saying is that if the top parsing mages are multi-dotting, I'm just gonna follow their lead. .
    I think u have chosen the wrong example.

    1. Horridon Adds (high % of it) are NOT freezable, so of course Frostbomb doesnt make much more sense.

    2. Its a 10 man raid. There are less adds as in 25 raid, so Frostbomb is getting less efficient.

    3. Horridon adds are quite often splitted up (different spawn points, ...)


    I think every encounter is different but NT ist mostly the best one.

  11. #11
    Living Bomb isn't spread by IB but it still has a reduced GCD and deals full AOE damage with only three casts, rather than requiring constant reapplication to all targets.
    That is why it is still sometimes better than NT.

  12. #12
    It is worth multidotting since the Damage per Cast Time of NT is much higher than Frostbolt (almost 3x).

    That assumes the dot lasts more than half duration, and you are able to retarget efficiently.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Lobo View Post
    I cant imagine any situation, why Living Bomb should be better than NT. Living Bomb was the optimum at 5.1 with spreading it simply but this advantage has been removed.

    Frost bomb is good with 5+ Target, but they should be freezable. Without Freeze you need about 7+ Targets to get better than any other bomb.
    Well just in terms of bomb damage, when there are exactly 3 targets stacked up, its possible LB will do more damage than NT.

    3 target stacked scenario:
    Each NT will do 100% to main target plus 50% to 1 other target. So 3 NTs is 1.5*3=4.5 DoT damage
    Each LB will do 100% to main target (50% dot 50% explosion), plus 50%(explosion) to each of the 2 other targets. So each LB is 2 DoT damage, 3 LB is 2*3= 6 DoT damage

    Council is a good example of this if you tank all 3 within explosion range of each other.

    The question is, what is the difference in total damage between 4.5 NT versus 6 LB, since with haste (if frost for example)you are getting stronger and stronger NT's because there are more ticks - not so much for LB where only the dot scales. You'd have to check your own logs/sims with your gear to see which is more overall damage - but again, that's the only scenario where LB even has a chance of being more, less than 3 targets stacked or more than 3, LB is worse than the other bombs.
    Last edited by Keiyra; 2013-03-20 at 03:08 PM.

  14. #14
    I never realized that the BF proc chance is only granted by the most recent application.

    I take it that even without the added BF proc chance, the (total dmg / GCD) soon exceeds (nuke DPS / number of dotted adds) if the adds live long enough.

    Thanks for the insights, much appreciated. :-)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •