Thread: Sub rogue PVP

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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrean View Post
    If you have 40% res and you add 5% you actually are reducing damage taken by roughly 8%. If you have 70 resilience and you add 5% you reduce damage taken by almost 17%.
    I feel this is an issue of jumbled words. I have been preaching direct changes in mitigation, and you have been doing the same for indirect changes in damage reduction; two sides of the same coin.

    65% to 68.5% mitigation is an effective 5.3% increase. 68.5% to 72% mitigation is an effective 5.1% increase. Depreciation in this regard.

    However, 65% to 68.5% mitigation yields an effective 11% change in damage reduction, and 68.5.% to 72% mitigation yields an effective 12.5% change in damage reduction. Appreciation in this regard.

    -------------

    Back on topic...OP, I would suggest changing your damage trinket to the on-use version (Badge of Conquest).

    The agility bonus is higher than its Insignia counterpart, and being on a mere 1-minute cooldown it can be macro'd into your shadowdance for additional burst on demand. Using the insignia is not a deal-breaker though.
    Quote Originally Posted by vickus420 View Post
    While I appreciate you watching my video even if it's for only 1 minute, the least you could do is tell me how you think I handled the mage instead of telling me why you didn't watch it all
    As far as how you handled the mage...Others have told you to open with garrote then apply enough pressure to force a blink.

    Garrote serves 3 purposes:
    1) Acts as a non-dispellable DoT. Useful against rogues and ferals. Dwarves are an exception due to Stone Skin.
    2) Silences casters for 3 seconds (4.5 if glyphed).
    3) Applies your Sanguinary Vein buff. As Assassination, it applies an inferior version of Venomous Wounds (since garrote ticks every 3 seconds as opposed to Rupture's 2-second ticks.)

    Unless you're ganking lowbies or undergeared players that'll die in no time, it is a safe bet to include garrote in your opening sequence if specced into Subterfuge.

    If for whatever reason you decide to open with cheap shot on a mage and they blink out of it, a nice option to keep them in place is to use Shiv. Using paralytic poison causes shiv root the target for 4 seconds (provided you have at least one stack of it on the target). I've never had this root break on damage, so it's a pretty reliable means of keeping a mage (or any other player) still while avoiding use of a Kidney Shot that will suffer from diminishing returns.
    Last edited by AwdBawl; 2013-03-21 at 12:34 AM.

  2. #22
    Mechagnome Wootylicious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    You really need to use garrote as he can't blink out of it and if you build up enough pressure you either force him to immediatly blink afterwards or even block thus making killing the mage far easier. Rogue vs mage is always about who's spending his cool downs first.
    there is no such things as "you really need to this" against mage. garroting mage will just force you to blow vanish or cloak on pet nova ( if you didnt pre garrote pet ) where cheap shot forces mage to blink which you can follow up with full garrote ( again pre garroting pet other wise you get novad and he just runs out of melee range ) or dr kidney/cheapshot ( which doesnt require pre garroting cuz mage wont be mobile ).

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by vickus420 View Post
    Hey guys. I was hoping some of you could give me some tips on how to be a better rogue. I took this video yesterday and a few more last week for this reason I've gotten lots of awesome feedback of reddit and the wow forums, but was hoping some of you hear could give me some pointers! Link to video is below. thanks for reading.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJi_fZ_Isjw
    Move this to the "Rouge" forum. you can probably get better help there then on the "PvP" forum.
    "Use the force harry." -Gandalf

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerschlag View Post
    Move this to the "Rouge" forum. you can probably get better help there then on the "PvP" forum.

    I've gotten much more help here, but thanks. :] There's alot I could learn from people that play other classes as well. And rouge means red in french! :P

    And I am switching to the on-use version now. So far EVERYONE has told me to do so. Now I just need to learn how to deal with warlocks and shadow priests. They are such a pain for me, worse than mages IMO. Oh and I did my very first RBG today. 4 actually, won the first 3 and lost the last one. It was pretty great only reason I was able to was because of some guy on this forum that recommended a program called oQUEUE. Thanks whoever you are I forgot where I read it

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-21 at 09:55 PM ----------

    so.. gem back to all yellow? >.>

  5. #25
    Man there are so many different opinions on gemming : / I wish I knew how to do the math. Could someone explain this to me? if it says I gained 5% damage on my characters stats screen under melee where pvp power is, how much would a 30k hit be increased by? people say it's not actually 5%?

    And if I was to get hit for 30k damage, how much would 5% resilience mitigate this by? People say it's more than 5%? :s so confusing.

  6. #26
    Mechagnome
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    6resi gems, and few hybrid gems.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by vickus420 View Post
    Could someone explain this to me? if it says I gained 5% damage on my characters stats screen under melee where pvp power is, how much would a 30k hit be increased by? people say it's not actually 5%?

    And if I was to get hit for 30k damage, how much would 5% resilience mitigate this by? People say it's more than 5%? :s so confusing.
    44% PvP power translates to 44% additional damage towards players, or in other words 144% damage.

    Adding 5% would work as follows:
    144% + 5% = 149%

    149/144 = 1.0347
    It would be a 5% increase in PvP power, but a 3.5% increase in damage overall. This is why I've been using the word "effective" so often as it is the change you will actually see in practice.
    ------------------------
    A 5% increase in resilience would work as follows:
    65% mitigation = 35% damage taken normally

    5/35 = 0.1428
    A 5% increase in mitigation is equivalent to a 14.3% reduction in damage taken. This is why everyone's been acting like I blew air up their ass when I suggested gemming to fill your socket bonuses instead of full yellows.

    I feel, however, that given your goal of BGs and the new resilience scale, this would serve you better as you fill in with Tyrannical gear. Keeping +320 resilience gems in your yellow & prismatic sockets is a decent middle ground. Believe what you want.

  8. #28
    I agree with you that there is a difference. In a perfect world I would advocate having different gemming strategies for arena and RBG. Mostly in arena I would push for maximum resilience, and in RBG maximum killing power. (I run double dps trinkets in RBG as non-human as an example). Unfortunately we can't have two sets of gear or change our gems without it being costly. I actually in practice gem a mix.

    I put 320 res in yellow sockets.
    The off color I prefer the main stat/res hybrid.

    I will go for socket bonuses because they are almost always either loads of res or a decent amount of str.

    If you were flag carrying then it would be resilience all the way. As a rogue though, it is perfectly viable for you to gem full on damage because you have lots of tools to negate damage. You used to not care last season because improved recup reduced your damage taken by 6% which was a lot of efective resilience, but this season you have to rely on feint basically.

    Me blowing smoke up your ass was basically just pointing out to those people that may be reading that are just looking at the percentages and saying 8% power is more than 3% resilience. Like you said, the effective numbers are different. I just wanted to make sure they were getting the whole picture.

    I would probably advocate that all dps classes gem full on damage for RBG, all tank classes go full on resilience and all healers go full on resilience for RBG. For arena it depends a lot on your class. Rogue as stated above could go full damage as could a mage. Warlock though would probably be better off going resilience. So you can see that I think classes that can flat out avoid damage versus classes that are built around taking damage should gear differently.

  9. #29
    Thanks AwdBall that helps alot.

  10. #30
    If you're bored you can try this macro I wrote when speced into night stalker and prey on the weak

    #showtooltip
    /castsequence reset=10 premeditation, garrote,
    shadow dance, cheap shot, vanish, eviscerate,
    marked for death, eviscerate

    YOu can also use this macro to help your opening rotation if you don't want to use it

  11. #31
    I honestly have no idea what that macro would do >.> I only understand basic macros that let you cast spells that aren't on the GCD. And altmod stuff lol. WHat would that be useful for?

  12. #32
    Cast sequence macros let you mash the button and it progresses through the chain shown in the macro each time a gcd is up. I don't use them, just explaining to the poster before me.

  13. #33
    Mechagnome Wootylicious's Avatar
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    Rogue as stated above could go full damage as could a mage.
    resilience is million times better and there is a reason ppl gem all out on it in arenas + you just pointed out the 2 classes that if gotten off guard already die insanely fast.

  14. #34
    I've decided I'm going to gem all resil on my mage and rogue. I just hit 90 on my mage and I forgot what a hellish nightmare gearing is.. It's like I win EVERY BG on my fully geared rogue but now that I'm playing a mage I lose every BG and my ice lance crits hit for the same amount as my hemo hits normally.. mage is in full contender gear with malev glads endgame : /

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