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  1. #21
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    Thank you. I believe I will be giving BW a go tonight ^^
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING
    Moderator of R & D | Open Raid
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  2. #22
    Immortal Ryme's Avatar
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    BW provides more innovations to boss mods, has a cleaner interface, requires less computing power and memory, is more customisable and is updated faster than DBM.

    I see no logical reason to not use it.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by funkydude View Post
    Actually he's right, you can look at the changelog dates to verify this. FYI, BW also has alpha builds (they are even more frequent than DBM). This feature was implemented before DBM in alpha and pushed to a new release before them too.
    Yeah, BigWigs has alpha builds you can download. And theres LOTS of them. In the beginning of a tier, they get spammed out every couple of hours, and even later in the tier there are going to be updates. So I guess BW throws out alpha builds much more frequently than DBM(at least DBM didn't have very frequent updates back when I still used it)

    There really isn't much difference between them anymore, in terms of features/functionality, anymore.

  4. #24
    The Insane peggleftw's Avatar
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    does bigwigs have sound alerts? or is there a way to turn them off on DBM? i assume its DBM making the noise but when i raid it makes a sound everytime something happens, its really annoying because it drowns out my music or skype chat making little pingy noises and shouting beware.
    i can see whats happening easy enough, i dont need something making stupid sounds!!!
    Too cool for a signature

  5. #25
    I had no way to create a pull timer (that I could find without wanting to /wrists, assuming it exists) so I switched to dbm. I find it weird that people are saying the countdown was stolen from bw, because I used bw for FOREVER before I switched, and dbm was the first time I heard the countdown timer.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Woceip View Post
    I had no way to create a pull timer (that I could find without wanting to /wrists, assuming it exists) so I switched to dbm. I find it weird that people are saying the countdown was stolen from bw, because I used bw for FOREVER before I switched, and dbm was the first time I heard the countdown timer.
    No one here has said that, DBM had the countdown before BW did. We added cross-compatibility for it so that you can see custom/pull timers broadcasted by DBM users in BW, and also BW raid leaders will have their custom/pull timers sent to DBM users in the raid. The slash command for a pull timer in BW is "/pull T" where T is the time in seconds. I realize this isn't actually explained anywhere (entirely our fault, sorry!) so we added a breakdown of the slash commands into the main config panel.

    Quote Originally Posted by peggleftw View Post
    does bigwigs have sound alerts? or is there a way to turn them off on DBM? i assume its DBM making the noise but when i raid it makes a sound everytime something happens, its really annoying because it drowns out my music or skype chat making little pingy noises and shouting beware.
    i can see whats happening easy enough, i dont need something making stupid sounds!!!
    Well we try to be somewhat conservative with when we play sounds. For example certain abilities that have little to no importance won't play a sound at all, where as we try to keep other sounds unique to specific abilities. Also worth noting is the fact you can change the sound per-ability if you wish to add your own sound for some kind of ability you really want to know about.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-21 at 12:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by funkydude View Post
    Whilst I appreciate that some people with high end systems don't care about performance, it's important to note that the majority of players do not have top notch systems. I brought up performance earlier but it doesn't seem to have been touched at all. So I decided to install DBM and go for a run in an LFR. The only addons that were enabled were BW and DBM to get an accurate assessment of CPU usage. I did this in the first Throne of Thunder LFR wing.

    The following is the memory and performance situation after logging on in a city, and idling for 5 minutes. Boss mods should NOT be using resources while idling.


    The following was captured during the "Council of Elders" encounter. This fight is substantially heavy for boss mods and a good example to use to see the average combat CPU usage.

    If we combine the addons together, it adds to a total of (lower is better)
    • DBM: 21.2 CPU/sec
    • BW: 3.7 CPU/sec




    So, what are the results after the entire LFR was over? Lets add up the addons again (lower is better)
    • DBM: 26763 (27k)
    • BW: 6212 (6k)




    Also worth noting is that BW goes back into an idle state when the boss encounter is over.
    I didn't really touch on memory. Sure it was lower whilst idle but during an encounter it's about the same. However, memory use is not really a good measure of performance and was reasonable for both addons.

    So it really comes down to how much you care about your CPU usage in raids, because DBM will gobble it up for dinner.

    Please note: For this test to be performed accurately it was done with ONLY BW & DBM enabled. BW must have all its libraries embedded inside it also, they were not removed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Puerto View Post
    Whats the addon you are using to show CPU usage?
    It's a very old addon called OptionHouse which I don't believe is available anymore. I've kept my own personal copy (I won't be publishing it anywhere) which I've bugfixed and kept running as I prefer it.

    Remember that CPU profiling is off by default with good reason, it causes a performance hit. It's only meant for short periods of profiling addons/functions and mainly aimed at authors debugging performance issues.
    Author of BadBoy, BasicChatMods, BigWigs, oRA3, SexyMap, [...]

    DBM: 21.2 CPU/sec
    BW: 3.7 CPU/sec
    [Source]

  7. #27
    Blademaster Divider's Avatar
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    I ve been using BW for long time and i do prefer having that mod as my main raid Boss mod. As funkydude mentioned is way more CPU / Mem efficient and also a good example is Elegon fight. Had many raid members in our guild freaking out in 25man mode when popping BL at the end and their FPS were dropping really low. Most complains were coming from DBM users. I know that many people don't have top end systems but still if you do care about everything you choose the most "lightweight" option avaliable. Just my personal opinion <3
    @ funkydude, the only thing i would like to see in the future is an automatic reply like DBM has when someone whispers you while you are in a boss fight and he gets back the % of <boss name> . I just don't know why you haven't coded that yet :P

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Divider View Post
    the only thing i would like to see in the future is an automatic reply like DBM has when someone whispers you while you are in a boss fight and he gets back the % of <boss name> . I just don't know why you haven't coded that yet :P
    http://www.wowace.com/addons/simple-boss-whisperer/ (I have no idea if this still works.)
    Last edited by cremor; 2013-03-21 at 01:24 PM.

  9. #29
    Immortal Ryme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divider View Post
    @ funkydude, the only thing i would like to see in the future is an automatic reply like DBM has when someone whispers you while you are in a boss fight and he gets back the % of <boss name> . I just don't know why you haven't coded that yet :P
    Kiezo was born, some stuff happened for a few years and then he became my best friend evar when he created:

    BigWigs_AutoReply
    BigWigs_RecordKills

    Both up to date, both work great.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by funkydude View Post
    It's a very old addon called OptionHouse which I don't believe is available anymore. I've kept my own personal copy (I won't be publishing it anywhere) which I've bugfixed and kept running as I prefer it.

    Remember that CPU profiling is off by default with good reason, it causes a performance hit. It's only meant for short periods of profiling addons/functions and mainly aimed at authors debugging performance issues.
    Gotcha, yeah... I was getting really weird performance drops last night. I was easily getting 30-45 FPS during 25 man raiding the night before with everything at ultra settings. I even streamed for a little bit with no problem. The next night... I didn't change anything... 10 FPS. Made no sense and was getting frustrated in trying to figure it out. Then out of no where, 2 and a half hours into raid, my FPS just went back to normal.

    I hate this game sometimes.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Divider View Post
    @ funkydude, the only thing i would like to see in the future is an automatic reply like DBM has when someone whispers you while you are in a boss fight and he gets back the % of <boss name> . I just don't know why you haven't coded that yet :P
    It's something we'll consider for a future major version. For now some plugins have been suggested

    Quote Originally Posted by Puerto View Post
    Gotcha, yeah... I was getting really weird performance drops last night. I was easily getting 30-45 FPS during 25 man raiding the night before with everything at ultra settings. I even streamed for a little bit with no problem. The next night... I didn't change anything... 10 FPS. Made no sense and was getting frustrated in trying to figure it out. Then out of no where, 2 and a half hours into raid, my FPS just went back to normal.

    I hate this game sometimes.
    Depending on your graphics card this can actually be caused by running GPU accelerated applications in the background e.g. Flash Player (YouTube, etc). Your sudden increase in FPS may have been caused by closing a browser tab running Flash Player, or closing the browser entirely.
    Author of BadBoy, BasicChatMods, BigWigs, oRA3, SexyMap, [...]

    DBM: 21.2 CPU/sec
    BW: 3.7 CPU/sec
    [Source]

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by funkydude View Post
    It's something we'll consider for a future major version. For now some plugins have been suggested



    Depending on your graphics card this can actually be caused by running GPU accelerated applications in the background e.g. Flash Player (YouTube, etc). Your sudden increase in FPS may have been caused by closing a browser tab running Flash Player, or closing the browser entirely.
    Yeah, youtube usually gives me this trouble sometimes. But last night, I even restarted my computer twice. Had nothing running in the background but vent. I even started disabling addons until all I had running was ElvUI, Bigwigs, and WeakAuras. I also lowered all graphics as well.

    Weird thing too.. is that my FPS and MS were fine before entering combat. Once entering combat my FPS just dropped hard to 10 and my MS slowing climbed. Not sure how those two are related.

    Edit: Btw.. I love your addon.. I've been slowly converting raiders in my guild to it. They made fun of me at the beginning of 5.2 since I couldn't see count down timers... but now I make fun of them because they can't see boss mechanic timers such as feed lol. That might have been fixed for them... but Bigwigs had it since day one.
    Last edited by Puerto; 2013-03-21 at 03:16 PM.

  13. #33
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kipling View Post
    I always used to use BigWigs and loved the final fantasy winning music when you downed a boss (that was that mod right?) but ever since I joined a top end guild a few years ago (which I'm no longer in) they said I had to use DBM so i've used that since...
    A top end guild that uses DBM, that one made my day : >

    For serious progress raiding, BigWigs. DBM if you aren't too bothered or are doing bosses after the 200th or so kill
    The speed at which BigWigs alpha's are updated are seriously good and during the first week of progress in an instance you can be expecting already functioning mods which are being updated on the fly at a rate of usually 5 times per evening
    Last edited by eddytheone; 2013-03-21 at 03:26 PM.

  14. #34
    Personally speaking it appears as if Bigwigs gets updated faster with new content (MoP at least) people I raided with in 5.0 were complaining about missing/inaccurate bars whilst mine were fine

  15. #35
    Elemental Lord Elim Garak's Avatar
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    The only big difference between the two is - Bigwigs is better.
    My Little Borg: Friendship is Irrelevant

  16. #36
    Another vote for BigWigs here.

    It just looks better, works more effectively and with less memory and is updated extremely quickly with bug fixes and new additions. Being my guild's RL as well I can personally attest to how well the cross talk between the DBM and BW is on pull timers is seeing as half my guild still uses DBM.

  17. #37
    its been my experience that dbm is easier to use out of the box per say, and requires less configuration, its probably a lot easier for a beginner player to use, and people don't like change, so they just keep using the same addon. bigwigs required significantly more finagling in it's options panel for it to work properly for me, it required a lot of setup to do what dbm did out of the box.

    also bigwigs doesn't seem to have a pvp timers module (please tell me if it does now!) which is why i stick with dbm, so i don't have to run a separate addon for pvp objectives.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    its been my experience that dbm is easier to use out of the box per say, and requires less configuration, its probably a lot easier for a beginner player to use, and people don't like change, so they just keep using the same addon. bigwigs required significantly more finagling in it's options panel for it to work properly for me, it required a lot of setup to do what dbm did out of the box.

    also bigwigs doesn't seem to have a pvp timers module (please tell me if it does now!) which is why i stick with dbm, so i don't have to run a separate addon for pvp objectives.
    I disagree with this. As you can see with my performance test earlier I had to install and use DBM. Before I did the test I went through the options and configured it. Now maybe my view is biased but I thought the DBM configuration was awful. For one, the bars were thrown at some random location in the top-right behind UI elements. Two, I had to scout the configuration for at least 10 minutes just to find out how to move them, before I found that tiny little button.

    In Big Wigs you simply click "configure" and everything is right in front of you. Also the bars are placed in a central location on the UI where 1) they are least likely to conflict with other elements and 2) they are most likely to be noticed and moved.

    I also don't think DBM's popularity has anything to do with "out of the box" configuration. The same way people still use X-perl or Titan panel, people cling to DBM because it's the most popular and because they are comfortable with it. I'd wager half of DBM users don't even know another boss mod exists, and if they do, they've probably never tried one. I also doubt they have any clue about the performance issues that surround DBM.

    Also no, BigWigs Bossmods does not contain PvP timers >.> If we made PvP timers for BW it would be in a separate addon which would be right back to square 1 of you not wanting to install another addon. Which is probably another reason DBM is popular, the "all-in-one" status.
    Author of BadBoy, BasicChatMods, BigWigs, oRA3, SexyMap, [...]

    DBM: 21.2 CPU/sec
    BW: 3.7 CPU/sec
    [Source]

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by funkydude View Post
    I disagree with this. As you can see with my performance test earlier I had to install and use DBM. Before I did the test I went through the options and configured it. Now maybe my view is biased but I thought the DBM configuration was awful. For one, the bars were thrown at some random location in the top-right behind UI elements. Two, I had to scout the configuration for at least 10 minutes just to find out how to move them, before I found that tiny little button.

    In Big Wigs you simply click "configure" and everything is right in front of you. Also the bars are placed in a central location on the UI where 1) they are least likely to conflict with other elements and 2) they are most likely to be noticed and moved.

    I also don't think DBM's popularity has anything to do with "out of the box" configuration. The same way people still use X-perl or Titan panel, people cling to DBM because it's the most popular and because they are comfortable with it. I'd wager half of DBM users don't even know another boss mod exists, and if they do, they've probably never tried one. I also doubt they have any clue about the performance issues that surround DBM.

    Also no, BigWigs Bossmods does not contain PvP timers >.> If we made PvP timers for BW it would be in a separate addon which would be right back to square 1 of you not wanting to install another addon. Which is probably another reason DBM is popular, the "all-in-one" status.
    working out of the box, and performance are completely different . something can suck up a huge amount of memory, but its its easy to use for a beginner, people will often use it over a more efficient alternative with a steeper learning curve. the minute i installed dbm it put bars in places i liked, it took me a good half an hour of moving bigwigs bars around and fiddling with fonts to get something that dbm did the moment i installed it.

    its only more advanced users care about minimal resource footprint. bigwigs was harder to set up, and took longer for me to get it working the way i wanted it to then dbm did. i'm fairly good with addons, i'm not bothered but this, newer players would be.


    timers are timers, doesn't matter if they are pve or pvp, their cognitive function remains the same.

    not having pvp timers in it is the ONLY reason i'm not using your addon, simple as that. your talk of a lower memory consumption for bigwigs vs dbm is completely negated by the fact that i would have to run another addon for pvp timers.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  20. #40
    Brewmaster Advent's Avatar
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    Is there a way to have Bigwigs play the DBM countdown voice?
    A typical raid leader command would be something like "Yo Scrub, why don't you YOLO 1337 yards to the left because the boss's Swag is about to hit us in 3 seconds".
    Quote Originally Posted by KungFuFanta View Post
    Oh my god, a company tries to put some lore flavor into the game mechanics, all is lost, whatever shall we do without a whole 1% of crit or haste.
    Quick, call Ukraine and Russia, let them know to put their conflict on standby because Touch of Elune is BULLSHIT!

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