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  1. #101
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    There isn't much of a difference, and it's largely personal preference. I've used both at different times and I prefer DBM for three major reasons:

    1) BigWigs doesn't (or didn't when I last used it, which was IIRC around Firelands) have the big on screen notifications like DBM does; it has "emphasized" messages but they are just normal warnings with a bigger font and maybe a screen flash, and not the big centered "BAD STUFF - MOVE" or "DEBUFF ON TANK (3)" things. BigWigs also doesn't/didn't have the "Run away little girl" emote for moving, or the new countdowns or "Beware!" emotes either. In other words, BW puts more onus on the player knowing the mechanics of the abilities, while DBM is more of an actual reminder/alert. That may or may not be a bad thing, but in the past I found using BW I would overlook mechanics because I was so used to DBM screaming at me, not just a "ding" with a slightly larger than normal font popping up like a raid warning.

    2) DBM is more popular; the majority of guilds that I've been in exclusively use DBM so I use DBM as well. If I joined a guild using BigWigs I'd use BigWigs, etc.

    3) DBM has a "VictorySound" addon that not only plays defeat/victory tunes, but can be configured to play special "boss music" during the fight itself.

    EDIT
    ----
    I nearly forgot, one MAJOR reason I prefer DBM is because it also has 5-man timers/warnings (and BGs as well). BigWigs had the LittleWigs addon but last I checked that was abandoned around 4.1 and never touched since beyond adding the boss names from the 4.3 HoT heroics. I like having warnings/notices in 5-man content as well as raids.
    Last edited by Nobleshield; 2013-04-02 at 09:17 PM.
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  2. #102
    Arothand: Everything you mention has been in BW for as long as I've used it.
    There is no real benefit to use the same mod as the rest of your raid.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    There isn't much of a difference, and it's largely personal preference. I've used both at different times and I prefer DBM for three major reasons:

    1) BigWigs doesn't (or didn't when I last used it, which was IIRC around Firelands) have the big on screen notifications like DBM does; it has "emphasized" messages but they are just normal warnings with a bigger font and maybe a screen flash, and not the big centered "BAD STUFF - MOVE" or "DEBUFF ON TANK (3)" things. BigWigs also doesn't/didn't have the "Run away little girl" emote for moving, or the new countdowns or "Beware!" emotes either. In other words, BW puts more onus on the player knowing the mechanics of the abilities, while DBM is more of an actual reminder/alert. That may or may not be a bad thing, but in the past I found using BW I would overlook mechanics because I was so used to DBM screaming at me, not just a "ding" with a slightly larger than normal font popping up like a raid warning.

    2) DBM is more popular; the majority of guilds that I've been in exclusively use DBM so I use DBM as well. If I joined a guild using BigWigs I'd use BigWigs, etc.

    3) DBM has a "VictorySound" addon that not only plays defeat/victory tunes, but can be configured to play special "boss music" during the fight itself.

    EDIT
    ----
    I nearly forgot, one MAJOR reason I prefer DBM is because it also has 5-man timers/warnings (and BGs as well). BigWigs had the LittleWigs addon but last I checked that was abandoned around 4.1 and never touched since beyond adding the boss names from the 4.3 HoT heroics. I like having warnings/notices in 5-man content as well as raids.
    Pretty much anything in that post is wrong information or just not true.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Stanzilla View Post
    Pretty much anything in that post is wrong information or just not true.
    Untrue, and he claims he last used it back in Firelands which was released 28 June 2011. In what way would his input be relevant?

  5. #105
    High Overlord Lombra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by funkydude View Post
    So yeah this is one of those times where we agree to disagree. Thanks for being honest and adding your opinion on the topic though. Curious what others that prefer DBM have to say.
    Here's my story:

    Some of kosechi's opinions matches those of mine; I think DBM has a better default configuration, and I think as far as the actual purpose of the addon goes (raid assistance), there's nothing wrong at all. However, yes the config UI is terrible. No support for profiles. (I made a "plugin" for that) With so many options, not being able to share settings is completely stupid. I recently got sick of all this and decided to give BigWigs a go (for the first time - having used DBM since it first got popular) but, to be honest I was not all that happy with it. I loved the thought of being able to set up any ability in any way, as opposed to DBM where all abilities are essentially hardcoded being emphasized or whatever. I soon realised that with total configurability, comes the need of actually configuring everything. (that's why I hate Pitbull and the likes) I did not have the patience for that, so I went back to DBM.

    Now, the other day I was looking into fixing SharedMedia support for DBM, as I was sure it wasn't properly implemented. The dropdowns were only showing a few entries, where other addons listed a lot more. After a bit of experimenting I finally realised that you had to scroll the menu with the mouse. Just there was no scroll bar, no arrows, no nothing to indicate that you were able to do so. I once again considered BigWigs. Later I realised what I had suspected before, the variable names of the different boss abilities tends to change in DBM, effectively resetting the options for those abilities. That was the final nail in the coffin, and I decided to try BigWigs once more. Now I see however, that DBM's default config is actually very good. I'm missing things like vocal countdown for critical abilities (breath of fear, get-out-of-Garajal-totem-phase and more), a more attention catching sound effect for semi critical stuff such as standing in the fire. I also like the little extras they have, which were discussed, such as PvP timers.

    As far as code goes; as a developer (not for either of these addons, mind you) I can appreciate neat and efficient code, but to be honest, I don't give a damn until it affects me as an end user. What I see is what I get. I stuck with Titan Panel for quite some time, too, simply because it did what I wanted, but in the end, the cons outweighed the pros.

    Sorry for the wall of text.
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  6. #106
    since i dont wanna make new thread, anyone knows how i can make Bigwigs/dbm to get same skin as ELVUI has as "standard"?

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by tordenflesk View Post
    Arothand: Everything you mention has been in BW for as long as I've used it.
    There is no real benefit to use the same mod as the rest of your raid.
    that aren't entirely true, encounters that bossmods uses Sync because of phased/diferent plan encounters (ex: MoV 3 boss Garaj when the players go the spirit realm boss mods uses sync, in ToT Twins also is used Sync)

    so in this case you will not have the proper timers if you run BigWigs and the rest DBM
    Last edited by Spike`; 2013-04-03 at 01:50 PM.

  8. #108
    DBM = Firefox
    BigWigs = Google Chrome

    Me Personally DBM rocks never muched cared for BW

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by asphyx5 View Post
    DBM = Firefox
    BigWigs = Google Chrome

    Me Personally DBM rocks never muched cared for BW
    Well that was a baseless comparison.

  10. #110
    Not sure how hard it would be to implement... but an option to send your settings to another player would be pretty cool and helpful in a raid.

    I'm not talking about layout settings, I'm talking about settings a configure for a specific boss fight. Like changing the colors for certain bar abilities, emphasizing this here or there.

    As a raid leader, this could be found useful.

  11. #111
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    I stand by what I said; I recently installed BigWigs. While it does have the "Pretend I'm DBM" option so you don't have to standardize anymore, I still think that DBM has more noticeable timers/warnings. For instance I did the first wing of MSV in LFR. On Feng, BigWigs just makes a "ding" noise and flashes Epicenter in slightly bigger text than his other warnings. DBM has a blaring alarm-type deal, the "Run away little girl" noise, and puts a HUGE blue font right in the middle of your screen.

    Again it's up to preference but I prefer DBM just because it's a lot more "in your face" about the mechanics.
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  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    DBM has a blaring alarm-type deal, the "Run away little girl" noise, and puts a HUGE blue font right in the middle of your screen.
    That's just distracting you from actually paying attention. There's plenty of indicators of what's going on around you in the game world and the rest of the UI.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by kittycovox View Post
    since i dont wanna make new thread, anyone knows how i can make Bigwigs/dbm to get same skin as ELVUI has as "standard"?
    ElvUI bar style is built into BW, you can select it from the bar style dropdown.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    I stand by what I said; I recently installed BigWigs. While it does have the "Pretend I'm DBM" option so you don't have to standardize anymore, I still think that DBM has more noticeable timers/warnings. For instance I did the first wing of MSV in LFR. On Feng, BigWigs just makes a "ding" noise and flashes Epicenter in slightly bigger text than his other warnings. DBM has a blaring alarm-type deal, the "Run away little girl" noise, and puts a HUGE blue font right in the middle of your screen.

    Again it's up to preference but I prefer DBM just because it's a lot more "in your face" about the mechanics.
    I get what you're saying, but you honestly couldn't have picked a worse example to get your point across :P If anything Feng epicentre is a perfect example of something you DON'T want a giant run away warning/sound for. The amusing thing about DBM's warning is the fact that it says "Run Away" when in fact most of the time you shouldn't do anything, they should be interrupted, and on other occasions you use the bubble. I think you're bringing this up for LFR due to bad tanks which is somewhat understandable, but in reality the damage is so low it would be more detrimental running away.

    Putting that aside I think the point you're trying to make is one others are making, you're not a fan of the current defaults. We already have functionality for "large blue text", it's called an "Emphasized Message". The only difference is by default it's a different colour and is "CENTER-TOP", not "CENTER", but you can move it.

    I'll also take the opportunity to bring up pulse, a feature I think is king of attracting attention and is probably a matter of time before DBM rips it. This feature is a WeakAuras-style texture block in the middle of your screen that pulses, there is no better way of attracting attention. Yeah you guessed it, this feature is off by default, and probably the reason next to one knows of its existence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lombra View Post
    Sorry for the wall of text.
    No need to apologize, I value long and in-depth input like yours. It seems to be that several people so far simply don't like the current defaults.

    With what a few of you have said in mind, here are my current thoughts for 4.2:
    -Split the "Emphasize" feature into 2 features.
    --Feature 1 "Emphasize (with countdown)" will be exact same as the current "Emphasize" feature
    --Feature 2 "Emphasize (without countdown)" will simply be a feature for "giant text".

    -Enable the "Pulse" feature by default for certain abilities (Horridon charge, Magaera Cinders)

    Due to splitting the Emphasize feature we can then:
    -Enable "Emphasize (with countdown)" by default for a few select abilities, we will be very, very careful with what we choose for this
    -Enable "Emphasize (without countdown)" on quite a few abilities, probably sticking to ones that directly affect you, we don't need to be as careful with this
    Last edited by funkydude; 2013-04-04 at 01:42 PM.
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  14. #114
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
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    Any chance you could put the countdown (and nothing but the countdown) on it's own? That is, I hear the countdown, but don't get the giant text when it expires.
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  15. #115
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    Hello thought i would put my thoughts in here

    First off i know its tempting, but in a thread "BW vs DBM" an authors input aint really that relevant funkydude. I know how it is to want people to understand ones thoughts behind ones program ( or in this example addon ) but fact is, user input just scores higher to users than developers. Fact is that ANYONE using any amount of time on a project will feel that the project have the "better" functions, if not they would have simply changed it.

    I´m not saying you cant put in inputs, and i do appreciate to see that you actually read what people says about your project. I just think in a discusion about what "normal" users should be using, "normal" unders should give the points

    I must admit i stopped reading after 3 pages went to the last and read some of this.

    My personal point in this is from a gamer that use all day trying to become and engineer and only plays in the evenings, i dont even seriusly raid atm. But im one of them people who played forever, and back then my guild ( realm even maybe? ) was like "Install DBM you need this" and so i did. I liked it for what it did and i got use to the perks of showing PvP timers, LF(r,d) timers, 5 man timers and whatever was just in the addon by default.

    Im soloing a lot and therefor ive installed the DBM for every exansion as well, and i didnt really like i had to find addons for other expansions, even thou i do realise the need of this.

    I once tryed BW, installed it. Used it for very little and realised it wasnt a DBM clone that did what i had gotten used to. Show me PvP timer on the rare occasion that i PvP, show me timers for queues in general. And it didnt keep record of my solo kills so i knew how many times i didnt get my mounts :P ( This was abit back some of the features MIGHT be in the addon now, not gonna make a switch at this time :P )

    Ive just been looking up and realised that alot of the features can be applyed by an ocean of different addons, and this is just not what im looking for. What i need is an addon that shows me timers for my play style, and by default settings DBM does this with brilliance

    To the comments that DBM is awefull to customize i dont get it, just recently i decided to finally moce the damn bars out of my quest tracker, took me no time and it was done

    Sorry for the rant, i hope this post will somehow start email me with messages when people continue commenting because if i realise my needs have been made in BW i might look for a swap, but untill proven right im a DBMér

    And please keep the blaming for stealing within the developer of the conflicting project, the layers and in this case curse. If they have stolen your code, fight for it, if they took a good idea and used it for the better of the users, be glad you helped even more people to get the better way of life!

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by asphyx5 View Post
    DBM = Firefox
    BigWigs = Google Chrome
    Stupid comparison, with MSIE still have a >75% market share... You make it sound like both BW and DBM are minority boss mods..

    Anyway... During the Ulduar period, I switched from BW to DBM, and have been using it exclusively since. However, based on this discussion, I switched to BW ~2 weeks ago, just to see if BW had improved..

    What I noticed was this:
    1: In LFR (my only source of raids in MoP as I've gone casual) I'm usually the only one (sometimes, one of two) who use BW. Rest is using DBM or something that doesn't show up with /BWV command.
    2: Total lack of "Run away little girl"-type warnings. When you "stand in fire" you need loud warnings that you can hear over combat sounds!!!
    3: Loud "thumping" sound when smene runs close to me, even for only a second or two, during active radar. Not needed, and should not need to warn, if said person is in motion.
    4: Flying bars not existing. I love them in DBM. I really miss them in BW. It's an eye-catcher when the bar flies over the screen, rather than just disappear from one block and appear in the other.
    5: Can't enter config-mode during a fight.. A message saying something with Blizzard is preventing config during combat is displayed.. Funny, how DBM can be configured during combat, without problems..

    This have led me, today, to switch back to DBM.. Had DBM not existed, I'd probably still used BW, as it does work and get the job done, it just doesn't fit MY needs.
    Last edited by FuxieDK; 2013-04-07 at 01:12 AM.

  17. #117
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    It seems like to me, DBM's fans love the bigness and boldness of its alerts, and are somewhat lost without them. To me, it's always been a crutch, because if you get the big blue letters, you're doing something bad and should already be out of it.

    I use BigWigs, because I need the timers to adapt to what's coming next, but with all the ground clutter in recent raids, I appreciate it not taking up lots of screen real estate for something I was already looking out for. And for things I need to see, I can emphasize what I want.

    For example, on Horridon Heroic, as a hunter:

    I need to emphasize the Dire Call (like everyone) so I can deterrence it.
    I need to emphasize the balcony adds, because I'm MDing some of them to the tank.
    I need to emphasize the Dinomancer because I need to switch to that quickly, and burn it.
    I need to emphasize when Charge is on me, but don't really care when it's on other people.

    I don't need to know when every Triple Puncture goes off, because I'm not a healer or a tank.
    I don't need to know when Double Swipe is going off, because I'm not bad and I can see the big ass graphic on the ground and I don't stand in it.
    I don't need to know when Blazing Sunlight goes out, because I'm ranged and shouldn't be getting it.
    I don't need to know when I'm standing in poison, or a sand trap, because that's fairly visually obvious (and health-bar-y obvious), and I'm already paying attention to it.

    BigWigs allows you this vast variety of customization. I remember on H-Wind Lord, being one of the 3 CCers of the add, I could emphasize the spear CC, and everyone else could basically turn it off. To me, BW offers the kind of role-specificity that really takes place in progression raiding.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    2: Total lack of "Run away little girl"-type warnings. When you "stand in fire" you need loud warnings that you can hear over combat sounds!!!
    You can have it play "run away little girl" instead of the default sounds if you wish.

    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    3: Loud "thumping" sound when smene runs close to me, even for only a second or two, during active radar. Not needed, and should not need to warn, if said person is in motion.
    Being too close to someone is critical information in many encounters, if you dislike it there's a speaker icon on the proximity, click it to mute.

    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    5: Can't enter config-mode during a fight.. A message saying something with Blizzard is preventing config during combat is displayed.. Funny, how DBM can be configured during combat, without problems..
    Are you trying to make this out as if DBM's implementation is somehow superior or something?

    Let me explain the situation to you. As of WoW v5 Blizzard implemented a combat restriction for Lua functions, they cannot pass 150ms of processing time in combat. We keep ALL code related to the config in a separate addon called BigWigs_Options, this addon is load-on-demand. That means no memory will be used by it until it is loaded. Unfortunately loading any addon on demand will consume a large amount of processing time, ESPECIALLY a configuration addon. On top of that, Blizzard doesn't give us any easy way of telling which PC is capable of loading an addon fast enough not to break 150ms. For that reason we flat out block loading the config in combat, if you wish to use the config in combat you can first load it BEFORE you enter combat, then you can use it fine in combat. The chat message already explains this.

    Just to let you know, DBM recently implemented a first-load combat block for their config addon also, maybe they copied that too... ^^
    Author of BadBoy, BasicChatMods, BigWigs, oRA3, SexyMap, [...]

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  19. #119
    You can have it play "run away little girl" instead of the default sounds if you wish.
    Can you explain how to do this? Are you talking about Blizzard default sounds?

    I want to keep BW because it uses less CPU. But now (after the migration from DBM to BW) i'm slightly confused because i cannot understand the "mood" of every warning/info sounds...
    Is there a way/configuration to change emote sounds and make them more similar to DBM? I'm trying to explain... a simple "ding" for a critical situation, is not efficient. With a screen full of spells, lights, movements and texts, emote sounds helps you to pay attention about particular situations, even in the middle of chaotic fights.
    I've tried to change sounds in the options window, but they're difficult to understand (or maybe it's difficult to understand when the "advice" sound is used, for which dangerous spell or action).
    Could you explain better how the sounds are assigned?
    For example:
    sound type = event

  20. #120
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    Great thread. I love that funky is here commenting and listening to the user-base. While you're here, I'd like to say some words.

    I am one of those that wants to be using ONLY BigWigs, and just not both BigWigs and DBM because some timers/features are better in DBM. I'd like to make some examples.

    One thing I miss from DBM is the flashing emphasized bar that flash in different colors instead of just one color. I would love that in BigWigs as an option for every bar or/and emphasized bars.
    Another one is the typical "warning to switch targets for X" that is often around in DBM. It might not really affect me that much because I am usually aware of things like that. But the majority of the user-base might like it, and maybe missing it from DBM. This example was taken from Tortos, when switching to bats.
    Small warnings when you are affected by X stacks of X. If it's > than X, more warnings, etc. This example was taken from Megaera when a tank gets stacks.
    One thing that I only had DBM for in a specific boss encounter was The Stone Guard, giving me warning when someone else was affected by Cobalt Mine and I was standing too close. That was really awesome during progress when you had quite alot to focus on. Same with the Wind-Lord when you were standing too close to someone with Bomb. Awesome feature. I want that.
    Pre-cast warnings for special boss abilities. No counter, no bars. Just a warning saying it's 5s until X happens. This could be an additional feature for the emphasized function instead of using the counter, or actually using both if you so prefer.

    These suggestions might be abit more for the casual player, and I've been raiding hardcore for little more than a year recently. But these might help even the best hardcore raider. And what says that BigWigs should only be used for the hardcore raider? Nothing, really. I want to use it casual as hardcore. This is why I came with these suggestions.

    One small thing that annoys me is that all boss encounters are in alphabetic order in BigWigs. I would like the bosses to be in the correct order the way you are facing them, like in DBM. An option for it or just permanent.

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