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  1. #1
    Field Marshal Darkarath's Avatar
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    Blood / High Elves becoming a neutral race

    Hello guys, what do you think? It´s possible? I share my thoughts about this issue:

    - We have a neutral race (pandaren). This open a big door for the races, in my opinion, not only for the future races, but for the existing ones too. It has a lot of potential, lorewise mostly, for big events that can cause such a decision for a leader.

    - Blood Elves and High Elves looks the same, except for the eyes. You can talk about their character, their view of see things, but the fact is that they´re practicaly identicall (phisically). The problem of the eyes? Blood Elves are actively looking for a cure for their sickness on BC, now that we have the Sunwell restored, maybe they finally find it and his beautifull eyes take again a blue color.

    - BC zones need a revamp and I think that Blizzard will do it sooner or later, they may take advantage of this to open the zone of the north of the Eastern Kingdoms that remains close (probably where the High Elves are living right now), and deliver it like a leveling zone for the Blood / High Elves, which tell us what High Elves have did all this years, his feelings about coming together with Blood Elves, etc. This zone will contain the final quest-chain to choose your new faction, while the two Blood Elves zones that we already know can tell as about the new situation of the race and why now we´re neutral (at the beggining), we can see a rebuild Silvermoon, the definitively end of the plague on the Elves territory...

    - Varian try to brougth Blood Elves in the Alliance, and these ones were listening, its seems that Jaina broke this option, but with the final events of 5.2 I think that might be reopened.

    Of course, this idea has two big problems:

    - What we do with the existing Blood Elves that serve the Horde all this time? Well, when you enter the game, you still belong to the Horde (that is what you want no? that´s why you choose a race of the Horde in first place xD) BUT ¡¡ if you reconsidered your position, you can go to the new leveling zone of Blood / High Elves (again, the zone of the north of the Eastern Kingdoms that remains close), where the chain-quest to choose your new faction is (mostly like the Pandaren quest-chain to choose their faction, I don´t see a big deal implementing this).

    - This is probably the biggest issue, the Horde will have one race less. What do we do? We give the Horde a new race? We make the Draeneis neutral? (I don´t see that happening, just an example). No, let the Horde with one race less. Azeroth is in war and betrayals and new alliances happen all the time, I don´t see why every faction has to have the same number of races.

    Well, I hope that you enjoy this post, I know that´s almost impossible, but I still like the idea.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    - Varian try to brougth Blood Elves in the Alliance, and these ones were listening, its seems that Jaina broke this option, but with the final events of 5.2 I think that might be reopened.
    The Blood Elves were in discussion about it because of their opposition to Garrosh's rule. Once Garrosh is removed they will have no reason to even consider it, considering their history with the Alliance races.

    Also, you're going about this the whole wrong way. Why go through all this nonsense in making Blood Elves neutral and cosmetically the same as High Elves when you could just introduce High Elves as a playable race.
    Last edited by nnelson54; 2013-03-20 at 08:31 AM.

  3. #3
    Warchief Velthy's Avatar
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    No it wont happen. They wont change the already playable race. It would make too many players angry.
    - Yes, new races. Whats done is done
    - So whats the point? Fel Orcs looks same as normal orcs, just recolored. Tanuka or those bulls from Townlong Stelles looks almost like taurens.
    - Lol u dont think BC or WotLK zones will ever get remade.
    - Jaina is alliance, Belf are horde. Two opossing fronts.
    - That seens silly and unreal.

    Signature made by my best friend Aryiana.

  4. #4
    It is not going to happen. The Blood Elves are part of the Horde. There is also a possibility that Lorthremar might become the new leader of the Horde. Highly unlikely, but with his new found bravado, it is a slim chance.
    when all else fails, read the STICKIES.

  5. #5
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    i just dont see blizzard implementing something like this. neutral races sure, but making a race thats been part of one faction neutral just seems, well silly.

    in a time when they are trying to give as many options to the player as possible i dont see how taking away the ability to play one race furthers their cause. now is it possible a separate faction might split off? thats plausible when you look at goblins, but to completely remove them? no i dont think it will happen

  6. #6
    The Patient Baskrik's Avatar
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    I can imagine that. Though I dont have a problem with the eyes. Let Belfs be green eyed, and the high elves be blue eyed. So they just have to bring one new starting area, and adjust the blood elf area. And dont let them start neutral, just let them choose the faction right in the character creation.
    Also, I disagree to the point, to let the horde short one race. I could imagine and would like to see ogres to join the horde (or half ogre).

  7. #7
    I am Murloc! Thelxi's Avatar
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    Blood elves also have "mean" and pissed off facial expressions and slightly "evil" and scrawny casting animations. They could change animations and expressions (and the eyes obviously) while keeping a lot the same.

  8. #8
    No, no and no. It's been six years and some people seemingly just cannot get over the Blood Elves being unique to the Horde.

    Firstly, the Alliance has an elf race. It's the Night Elves. If you want to play an Elf badly but remain Alliance, you've got an option.
    Yes the models are pretty horrific now after eight years but they are getting rebuilt and the new Night Elf model should be really awesome. And I know, they're not 'High Elves' so for a lot of players that's not an option. They want to play the cultured, magical Elvish race of fantasy stereotype. You want to do it that badly? Reroll Horde.

    Secondly, you list two big problems, existing players and faction balance. My friend those aren't problems with your idea. They are roadblocks, issues of such magnitude your idea is dead in the water. Blizzard is not going to expend the development resources to do this. Frankly, if they offered Blood Elves or High Elves to the Alliance I would expect a lot of race changes/rerolls similar to what occurred within the Horde during TBC. Is it too far fetched that up to one third of the player base could be Blood/High Elf? Do you think Blizzard wants that deep down? And it would further dilute faction distinctiveness.

    Thirdly you mentioned Varian's attempt to bring them back into the Alliance? Have you seen recent lore Horde side? If you've been doing the Isle of Thunder you'll see a Lor'themar Theron delighting in wreaking carnage on Kirin Tor/Alliance forces and during quests he's REALLY pro-Horde, even going so far to say 'We are the Horde', or 'Another Horde Victory!'. His people seem to be enthusiastically backing him up. Doesn't look like a group willing to jump back to the Alliance any time soon.
    Seems to me Lor'themar, and by extension the Blood Elves, have made up their minds about their place in the world (even if Lor'themar will likely side with Baine and Vol'jin during the upcoming civil war). In fact, far from being a reason to suspect the Belves are going neutral, this entire story arc involving them in MOP suggests to me that Blizzard is trying to show us that the Belves belong in the Horde and to close down lines of thought such as this.

    Finally, at a practical story telling level, IF this idea were ever to be implemented it would require the Blood Elves getting yet more story attention. I believe Dave Kosak said they can only devote so many resources to a particular part of the story at any moment. Right now the Blood Elves are having their first moment in the sun since TBC, and it's pretty substantial. After this is done, I'd like to take a look at other stories rather than another fix of Elf. The current Blood Elf arc seems to be settling their place and role for the foreseeable future.

    N.B.: I don't know how the Isle of Thunder ends, as I am trying to avoid spoilers. You mention that the end of 5.2 might somehow re-open the door to this idea. I can't comment on that, but if it does it would have to be something unbelievably drastic for Lor'themar to get over what happened so recently in Dalaran and I can't conceive of the circumstances of that happening.
    Last edited by Obelisk357; 2013-03-20 at 10:26 AM.

  9. #9
    Why is it such a damned frikkin deal IF! People want High Elves!? Tbh it's its all based on just love to hate on elves.
    its bandwagon to oppose any idea related to elves. Because simply put people
    Cant get over the fact they're "pritti" race and anything that isn't bubbling over with fktons of injected male hormones
    Simply does not compute. Because smiting pallies and "Me orc me smash!" Are not generic cheeseball stereotypes. Oh lets not forget pandaren with their blatant chinese culture. Certain people like traditional ideas and concepts, what a huge suprise when some people dont like change and would rather stick with what they like
    Do things always have to be over the topp complex to be enjoyable?

  10. #10
    Banned The Fiend's Avatar
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    No.

    There are literally one faction of High Elves with a decent amount of people, the Silver Covenant.

    There are as many people in the WARSONG OFFENSIVE, an army from Northrend. Than there is total High Elves in the world.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-20 at 01:02 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    - This is probably the biggest issue, the Horde will have one race less. What do we do? We give the Horde a new race? We make the Draeneis neutral? (I don´t see that happening, just an example). No, let the Horde with one race less. Azeroth is in war and betrayals and new alliances happen all the time, I don´t see why every faction has to have the same number of races.

    Well, I hope that you enjoy this post, I know that´s almost impossible, but I still like the idea.
    Of course you like the idea, you're a some kind of anime lusting tool who just suggested the Horde LOSE A RACE JUST BECAUSE.

  11. #11
    New Kid Zaelsino's Avatar
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    The Horde losing a race to neutrality and the Alliance gaining one for no real reason is a pretty bad idea. You'd need to balance it with an Alliance race going neutral too.

    This is barring the fact that recycling existing races to neutrality instead of, you know, giving us something new is... dubious.

  12. #12
    Field Marshal Darkarath's Avatar
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    First of all, I don´t care about in which faction Blood / High Elves are or should be. I´m just want to discuss a litltle, let´s see your points on the issue:

    go through all this nonsense in making Blood Elves neutral and cosmetically the same as High Elves when you could just introduce High Elves as a playable race.
    Blood Elves and High Elves are exactly the same except for the eyes, so I don´t see a big issue here. Just introduce High Elves like a playable race (for the Alliance, of course) it´s pausible, and it´s a idea that have a lot of potential too. But I don´t see it happening, mostly because if Blizzard gives a new race to the Alliance I expect something new, not the same model that a Horde race (Blood Elves) have.

    They wont change the already playable race. It would make too many players angry.
    - So whats the point? Fel Orcs looks same as normal orcs, just recolored. Tanuka or those bulls from Townlong Stelles looks almost like taurens.
    - Lol u dont think BC or WotLK zones will ever get remade.
    Players will get angry? Some will probably, some will love it, they are millions of players, and if you want to stay on the Horde you can do it, its a new option, new content and new lore, I don´t see why people will get more angry that with any other changue.

    I don´t really get what are you triying to say with all that about fel orcs and taunkas.

    Blizzard have talked a lot about revamp Outland, a lot of players have been asking for it, and if you think about it, it´s just a matter of time. WoW will live a lot of years more, do you really think that they´re going to let that zones untouched? People will get bored of them (they already are) and this is a living world, that have to adapt to current lore. Not only Outland and Northrend will be revamped, Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms will be revamped a second time, and in 15 years, a third time, etc. etc. (this is, of course, my opinion, and I can be wrong, but it will be a big dissapointment if in 10-15 years Azeroth remains like in 2013).

    in a time when they are trying to give as many options to the player as possible i dont see how taking away the ability to play one race furthers their cause. now is it possible a separate faction might split off? thats plausible when you look at goblins, but to completely remove them? no i dont think it will happen
    No one its talking about remove Blood / High Elves, only do them neutral, like Pandaren, and then choose their own faction.

    It is not going to happen. The Blood Elves are part of the Horde. There is also a possibility that Lorthremar might become the new leader of the Horde. Highly unlikely, but with his new found bravado, it is a slim chance.
    I agree with you, thats seems what probably will happen (except Lorthremar becoming leader of the Horde, I don´t see that happening), thats what everyone is expecting. This is way them becoming neutral seems more fun xD

    Firstly, the Alliance has an elf race. It's the Night Elves. If you want to play an Elf badly but remain Alliance, you've got an option.
    Yes the models are pretty horrific now after eight years but they are getting rebuilt and the new Night Elf model should be really awesome. And I know, they're not 'High Elves' so for a lot of players that's not an option. They want to play the cultured, magical Elvish race of fantasy stereotype. You want to do it that badly? Reroll Horde.
    As I say on the top, this is not about I want to play Blood Elves on the Alliance, I´m trying to have a good talk, not to cry about it.

    Secondly, you list two big problems, existing players and faction balance. My friend those aren't problems with your idea. They are roadblocks, issues of such magnitude your idea is dead in the water. Blizzard is not going to expend the development resources to do this. Frankly, if they offered Blood Elves or High Elves to the Alliance I would expect a lot of race changes/rerolls similar to what occurred within the Horde during TBC. Is it too far fetched that up to one third of the player base could be Blood/High Elf? Do you think Blizzard wants that deep down? And it would further dilute faction distinctiveness.
    I don´t expect in any way that massive reroll, thats why at the end of this expansion or at the beggining of the next it´s the best moment to do this. Blood Elves ''BOOOM'' was back on BC, now they´re about to show us the new models of the old races (correct me if Im wrong, but I think that Blood Elves and Draeneis are not included) people will make new characters of the old races with the new models, not the old Blood / High Elf model.

    Thirdly you mentioned Varian's attempt to bring them back into the Alliance? Have you seen recent lore Horde side? If you've been doing the Isle of Thunder you'll see a Lor'themar Theron delighting in wreaking carnage on Kirin Tor/Alliance forces and during quests he's REALLY pro-Horde, even going so far to say 'We are the Horde', or 'Another Horde Victory!'. His people seem to be enthusiastically backing him up. Doesn't look like a group willing to jump back to the Alliance any time soon.

    Seems to me Lor'themar, and by extension the Blood Elves, have made up their minds about their place in the world (even if Lor'themar will likely side with Baine and Vol'jin during the upcoming civil war). In fact, far from being a reason to suspect the Belves are going neutral, this entire story arc involving them in MOP suggests to me that Blizzard is trying to show us that the Belves belong in the Horde and to close down lines of thought such as this.
    I have to agree with you, this seems the normal path of events, Blood Elves making his ally with the Horde more strong than ever. But WoW lore have a lot of crazy stuff, and Blood High / Elves becoming neutral not seems to me one of the craziest.

    You say that they hate Alliance, I agree, but that don´t matter to them when Varian want them on the Alliance. Its much more crazy that they get on the Horde, because if exist one race that Blood Elves hate about any other, those are Trolls (you can say, Amani trolls, not Darkspear, they will hate them the same). The same go to Orcs, they fight against them on the Second War. Forsaken? they only accept them because they were in big need of help, do you really think if back on BC, instead of the Forsaken, Night Elves (or any other Alliance race) were the ones that lend a hand to Blood Elves, they wont accept it and join the Alliance?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by rumaya2000 View Post
    No, no and no. It's been six years and some people seemingly just cannot get over the Blood Elves being unique to the Horde.

    Firstly, the Alliance has an elf race. It's the Night Elves. If you want to play an Elf badly but remain Alliance, you've got an option.
    Yes the models are pretty horrific now after eight years but they are getting rebuilt and the new Night Elf model should be really awesome. And I know, they're not 'High Elves' so for a lot of players that's not an option. They want to play the cultured, magical Elvish race of fantasy stereotype. You want to do it that badly? Reroll Horde.

    Secondly, you list two big problems, existing players and faction balance. My friend those aren't problems with your idea. They are roadblocks, issues of such magnitude your idea is dead in the water. Blizzard is not going to expend the development resources to do this. Frankly, if they offered Blood Elves or High Elves to the Alliance I would expect a lot of race changes/rerolls similar to what occurred within the Horde during TBC. Is it too far fetched that up to one third of the player base could be Blood/High Elf? Do you think Blizzard wants that deep down? And it would further dilute faction distinctiveness.

    Thirdly you mentioned Varian's attempt to bring them back into the Alliance? Have you seen recent lore Horde side? If you've been doing the Isle of Thunder you'll see a Lor'themar Theron delighting in wreaking carnage on Kirin Tor/Alliance forces and during quests he's REALLY pro-Horde, even going so far to say 'We are the Horde', or 'Another Horde Victory!'. His people seem to be enthusiastically backing him up. Doesn't look like a group willing to jump back to the Alliance any time soon.
    Seems to me Lor'themar, and by extension the Blood Elves, have made up their minds about their place in the world (even if Lor'themar will likely side with Baine and Vol'jin during the upcoming civil war). In fact, far from being a reason to suspect the Belves are going neutral, this entire story arc involving them in MOP suggests to me that Blizzard is trying to show us that the Belves belong in the Horde and to close down lines of thought such as this.

    Finally, at a practical story telling level, IF this idea were ever to be implemented it would require the Blood Elves getting yet more story attention. I believe Dave Kosak said they can only devote so many resources to a particular part of the story at any moment. Right now the Blood Elves are having their first moment in the sun since TBC, and it's pretty substantial. After this is done, I'd like to take a look at other stories rather than another fix of Elf. The current Blood Elf arc seems to be settling their place and role for the foreseeable future.

    N.B.: I don't know how the Isle of Thunder ends, as I am trying to avoid spoilers. You mention that the end of 5.2 might somehow re-open the door to this idea. I can't comment on that, but if it does it would have to be something unbelievably drastic for Lor'themar to get over what happened so recently in Dalaran and I can't conceive of the circumstances of that happening.
    I agree 100%. This person gets it. As much as "high elves" would make for a cute alliance race, unless we see another great race for the horde and a somewhat surprising storyline twist for the next expansion, it's just never going to happen. I wanted a high elf, so I rolled horde. Loved it so much, I faction changed my hunter, rogue, and Druid and brought two of them in from old servers. $140 later, I am very happy I made this choice.

    Do yourself a favor, and level a Blood Elf. I promise you, at 90, you will drop the Alliance like the bad habbit they are and join the WIN.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    Well, I hope that you enjoy this post, I know that´s almost impossible, but I still like the idea.
    I think it's possible, but far from likely. Blizzard simply won't make the BElfs neutral.

    Quote Originally Posted by nnelson54 View Post
    The Blood Elves were in discussion about it because of their opposition to Garrosh's rule. Once Garrosh is removed they will have no reason to even consider it, considering their history with the Alliance races.
    One of friendship and cooperation going back 2000 years.

    Why go through all this nonsense in making Blood Elves neutral and cosmetically the same as High Elves when you could just introduce High Elves as a playable race.
    This would probably be the way it would be done, if Blizzard ever did so.

    EJL
    Last edited by Talen; 2013-03-20 at 02:37 PM.

  15. #15
    The only credible way to ever accomplish it without it just making a mockery of existing lore would be that, sandwiched between his anger at the Kirin Tor and his disdain for Garrosh's reckless, Garithosian view of the Sin'dorei, at the end of the expac Lor'themar says "screw/home" and takes Quel'thalas neutral and the expatriate "high elves" come back. Then you'd basically be able to have the Pandaren model where individual Thalassian characters choose factions. Eye color would just be a character creation choice with RP benefits, since a reintegrated Quel'thalas would have both those who got the taint and those who didn't.

    Do I think this is going to ever happen? Eh... maybe. Barring the possible eventual addition of demon hunters, I suspect Blizzard is done adding classes, so their best way to add new flavor to PCs will be a) another round of race/class proliferation, and b) playable races. And the easiest, low cost, low development way to add playable races would be neutrality/inter-faction options. This would require the ancient voodoo of "storytelling" to make it work, but even those arcane arts don't cost as much as programming playable centaurs, naga, ogres, and ethereals. And if you were ever going to do that, why not start with one of the most popular playable races (the two most being human and blood elf)?

    I could see an eventuality where this young lady gets her wish and that she could even do it as an Alliance character.

  16. #16
    Introduce Silver Covenant High Elves for Alliance, capital the new Dalaran
    Introduce Alterac Humans for Horde, capital Alterac
    Rebuild Stromgarde or retake Gilneas for the Alliance to balance the addition of a new Horde faction in Lordaeron

    Horde get an "evil" race similar to an existing Alliance race which has historically been allied with the Horde (2nd war, became Syndicate after, never rejoined Alliance)
    Alliance get a "good" race similar to an existing Horde race which has historically been allied with the Alliance (2000 years of friendship and co-operation)

    Problem solved and nobody can possibly complain.

    (in b4 complainers)

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by rumaya2000 View Post
    Secondly, you list two big problems, existing players and faction balance. My friend those aren't problems with your idea. They are roadblocks, issues of such magnitude your idea is dead in the water.
    Depends on how it was done. Giving Alliance High Elves isn't going to be expensive or require a lot of effort. Building them a zone would.

    N.B.: I don't know how the Isle of Thunder ends, as I am trying to avoid spoilers. You mention that the end of 5.2 might somehow re-open the door to this idea. I can't comment on that, but if it does it would have to be something unbelievably drastic for Lor'themar to get over what happened so recently in Dalaran and I can't conceive of the circumstances of that happening.
    I can. It'd be LT acting as a leader of his people, and continuing negotiations to rejoin an Alliance which has ever been helpful and beneficial and deciding not to stay with a group run by a people he despises and who see BElfs as little more than tools. It involves LT remembering that Garithos was not an upholder of Alliance beliefs nor anywhere near typical of them, that Dalaran was a third party unaffiliated with the Alliance, that the Sunreavers and BElfs need to recognise that the actions of the Horde loyalists within their ranks helped precipitate Jain as reaction and that the Horde is NOT a good place for the BElfs to be - even without Garrosh there is the approaching storm called Sylvan as to deal with.

    EJL
    Last edited by Talen; 2013-03-20 at 02:39 PM.

  18. #18
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    I can. It'd be LT acting as a leader of his people, and continuing negotiations to rejoin an Alliance which has ever been helpful and beneficial and deciding not to stay with a group run by a people he despises and who see BElfs as little more than tools. It involves LT remembering that Garithos was not an upholder of Alliance beliefs nor anywhere near typical of them, that Dalaran was a third party unaffiliated with the Alliance, that the Sunreavers and BElfs need to recognise that the actions of the Horde loyalists within their ranks helped precipitate Jain as reaction and that the Horde is NOT a good place for the BElfs to be - even without Garrosh there is the approaching storm called Sylvan as to deal with.

    EJL
    I can see Lor'themar cooperating with the Alliance, but I doubt the blood elves would rejoin the Alliance now, not to mention the bond between Silvermoon and Dalaran is basically in shambles for good this time, after the purge Rommath mindset seems to have become the norm, which is hatred for the Kirin tor.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    I can see Lor'themar cooperating with the Alliance, but I doubt the blood elves would rejoin the Alliance now, not to mention the bond between Silvermoon and Dalaran is basically in shambles for good this time, after the purge Rommath mindset seems to have become the norm, which is hatred for the Kirin tor.
    Funny what an act of paranoid totalitarianism will do to friendly relationships.

    Jaina and her angry puppy Vereesa pretty much ruined any hope of Quel'thalas ever formally joining the Alliance during any of its current occupants lifetimes. Which, being elves, is a good while. Which is again why neutral Quel'thalas is the most realistic path to playable Alliance Thalassians. Don't need a new starting area, just need to build it in to the already eventual rewrite of Eversong/Ghostlands.

  20. #20
    I get why there are factions, but I never understood why the players are so bound to them. In real life and in the lore itself we see that not all people of a race belong to that races faction. Spies, traitors, those who simply don't agree with the factions actions/choices and those who are neutral. The way I see it, all characters should start neutral and then choose their faction.

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