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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Kraspotatius View Post
    And? Merely one NPC among many.
    For now, since everyone here is trying to do justice: making the High Elves a playable race for the Alliance. Thanks for your support.


  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Najja View Post
    I get why there are factions, but I never understood why the players are so bound to them. In real life and in the lore itself we see that not all people of a race belong to that races faction. Spies, traitors, those who simply don't agree with the factions actions/choices and those who are neutral. The way I see it, all characters should start neutral and then choose their faction.
    This, just this. It makes so much sense!
    "Use the force harry." -Gandalf

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Najja View Post
    I get why there are factions, but I never understood why the players are so bound to them. In real life and in the lore itself we see that not all people of a race belong to that races faction. Spies, traitors, those who simply don't agree with the factions actions/choices and those who are neutral. The way I see it, all characters should start neutral and then choose their faction.
    In real life there is only one race - humans. If i move to, lets say, Russia and get their citizenship then i'm a russian. And if i try to fit in after a few years i'll probably be indistinguishable from all other russians.
    A tauren, on the other hand, will always stand out among humans. He'll never be one of them.

    For the neutral factions... the people in the factions still belong to their side, they are just neutral for the moment. We saw that with the ebon blades. After Arthas was dead most of them went back to the Horde/Alliance. There is no true neutral organization in WoW, there are just organizations that accept members from both factions.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    When did the blood elves side with the Scourge? I'm not sure if you're altogether clear on what happened Warcraft III.
    Illidan and the Naga occupied Dalaran...and Kael'thas and his BElves later allied with them.

    When Garithos found out they accepted help from the naga, he called them traitors and imprisoned them in the Violet Hold. The Kirin Tor let this happen, mind you, even though Kael'thas was a respected member of the organization, as were many of the blood elves.
    A respected member of an organisation whose city had been ravaged thrice, and who had allied with one of those three factions. Seriously - the city had been invaded by Scourge, wrecked by Archimonde and finally taken over by Illidan and the Naga. Do you seriously expect them to be in any position to fight Garithos to save Kael'thas?

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    The Kirin Tor did absolutely nothing in order to save them and the Naga did not ransack Dalaran, they might have been the main reason Garithos has been able to retake the city, since it used to crawl with scourge.
    This would be the same Scourge that weren't in the city when Archimonde destroyed it? The same Scourge he gave to Tichondrius and the Dreadlords? The same Scourge we saw move into Hyjal to support Archimondes operations there?

    To Quote Rommath on the matter
    And he doesn't even try to see how the Dalaranites might view the BElves siding with one of the forces which took it over. Just as he doesn't seem to place any fault with the Sunreavers for their treachery.

    The dwarven ambassador did spy, that much is certain and so did the Night elves, we might know the reason as well, which would be the Dreanei starting zone.
    He was implicated by a note written in Dwarvish and assumed to be from him - by a BElf who admits he can barely recognise the language let alone read it. The same BElf who (IIRC) we are told was given reports about the tower which blew up and apparently did nothing. We are never told or shown why the NElfs were there. We are given no hints about their mission. We are given no reason why the NElfs would go from super friendly in WC3 to attacking without provocation in this setup.

    The entire story has its moments, but overall it is still handled very clumsily.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormdash View Post
    Talen, you're forgetting perhaps that "Alliance" and centuries of amiable relationship emphatically did *not* mean Night Elves to Quel'thalas.
    No, it didn't. What we got from WC3, however, were very friendly overtures between the BElves and NElfs. They didn't fight, they worked well together. There was no conflict, no acrimony.

    a problem which, again, can fairly be blamed for getting out of control by the lassitude and shortsightedness of Dalaran and Lordaeron
    You would have preferred they executed Kel'thuzad for the crime of reanimating rats? KT wasn't really a threat until he stood before the Lich King and gained the power, knowledge and resources to become one.

    EJL
    Last edited by Talen; 2013-03-23 at 11:21 PM.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    You would have preferred they executed Kel'thuzad for the crime of reanimating rats? KT wasn't really a threat until he stood before the Lich King and gained the power, knowledge and resources to become one.

    EJL
    I wouldn't have blinked twice had they taken steps to, for instance, bind his powers (not sure, to be fair, how much such a thing would be an asspull in Warcraft magic phlebotenum) or just rehab him, hold him, question him. If necromancy was truly of such pearl-clutching horror to the Kirin Tor as the novel would suggest, surely something more than letting him swan off to parts unknown and sighing "whew, glad we nipped that in the bud" was called for.

    And, again, after this, maybe just failing less? Antonidas tells Jaina, at least, he doubts the plague has any magical aspect. How many days, even weeks from the first word of the plague passed before Arthas and Jaina were sent out passed during which perhaps a more vigilant Kirin Tor might have thought "hey, I wonder if the crazy necromancer we kicked out a while back might be up to some mischief?" Granted, there's a sort of "Monday morning quarterbacking 9/11" quality to too much what-if about how things developed, but... y'know, mysterious prophet that radiates power (per Jaina, so no way Antonidas missed that) shows up doing nothing but warning of imminent danger, not selling some sort of snake oil about fixing it, they know of at least one rogue sorcerer out there, they know the Orcs are rallying in the countryside, a mysterious plague starts. Be more on the ball, guys. There were many missed opportunities.

    Kael'thas, being intimately familiar with Dalaran and its workings, the Alliance's politics in general it would seem, I can see him in his anger being pretty pissed that things ever reached the point they did.

    Not for nothing, I'd have to reread that bit, but I also recall that Sylvanas -- the living Sylvanas -- is already getting pretty bitter that all this trouble was ever able to billow up and pour out of Lordaeron in the first place. A sense from Quel'thalas that what happened to them happened because their former allies didn't know how to handle their shit.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormdash View Post
    I wouldn't have blinked twice had they taken steps to, for instance, bind his powers (not sure, to be fair, how much such a thing would be an asspull in Warcraft magic phlebotenum)
    I'll try to answer that one. While there are a few cases of magic inhibition, it's either non-permanent effects from spells (draining mana, spellsteal, anti-magic shell, canonical silence effects) or small areas specifically enchanted to hold casters (dalaran dungeons, alcatraz, those three circles near c'thun). The former requires one or more mages to be permanently assigned to him, the latter entails life imprisonment.

    Banishment was a lot more popular in history than you'd think. Three main reasonings for that:
    A) He's done something not bad enough to kill him for, but we're not feeling like paying for his food by keeping him in prison
    B) He's done something that's worse than a quick death, so we're sending him into a harsh environment so he can die slowly
    C) Honestly, I kind of like him, so we're giving him the chance to build a new life.

    Honestly, I suspect that this was a case of C. Necromancy is dangerous, but I think the Kirin Tor was counting on it being too hard to research without the resources of Dalaran.
    A look at the warcraft novels, RPG books, games and magical french space soccer.

    Glory to person-whose-name-I-dont-know-but-rules-Kul-Tiras!

  7. #127
    Legendary! Thelxi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    Ill trade you blood elves for dwarves.
    Deal .

  8. #128
    Over 9000! Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    This would be the same Scourge that weren't in the city when Archimonde destroyed it? The same Scourge he gave to Tichondrius and the Dreadlords? The same Scourge we saw move into Hyjal to support Archimondes operations there?
    The scourge moved into the city afterwards, in the first mission you encounter Kael'thas he tells the night elves something rattled up the undead in Dalaran.

    And he doesn't even try to see how the Dalaranites might view the BElves siding with one of the forces which took it over. Just as he doesn't seem to place any fault with the Sunreavers for their treachery.
    Of course it is a biased, just as the Kirin Tor view is biased, from their standpoint they are absolutely correct, you can see it as a betrayal from the blood elves and the kirin tor and that my friend is the beauty of it.


    He was implicated by a note written in Dwarvish and assumed to be from him - by a BElf who admits he can barely recognise the language let alone read it. The same BElf who (IIRC) we are told was given reports about the tower which blew up and apparently did nothing. We are never told or shown why the NElfs were there. We are given no hints about their mission. We are given no reason why the NElfs would go from super friendly in WC3 to attacking without provocation in this setup.
    It is discovered during the quest line, that the night elves indeed came to spy on the blood elves with their mooncrystals and as such took over key ley nexi in order to power them up. The Dwarf ambassador is most likely guilty, since he asked specifically about the sanctums in his gossip text, finding a letter written in dwarwish would be quite the coincidence.

    I quote

    These arcane sanctums of yours are quite... interesting, Mr. Caidanis. I appreciate the information you have given me today.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  9. #129
    Stood in the Fire Drudatz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velthy View Post
    No it wont happen. They wont change the already playable race. It would make too many players angry.
    Plus it would be a game changer - buy stuff on the Horde AH and sell it after a (free! blizzard would loose money) faction change on alliance side and make a profit...

  10. #130
    not possible for all bloodelves to go neutral. only if a portion of blood elves were an npc neutral faction which we already have.

  11. #131
    Scarab Lord namelessone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Scenario 4: High Elves get introduced an Horde get an existing Alliance race in return.

    EJL
    And then EVERYONE will complain that Blizzard reshuffles old races instead of introducing new ones. I understand from lore perspective why people want elves to be neutral, but from gameplay perspective, it's a waste of development effort that could be spent on the actual new stuff.
    The night is dark and full of terrors...

  12. #132
    Well, if they did it, I think Silvermoon itself would basically be neutral, politically, and it's player characters that choose a faction. Much like is the case with Pandaren, again, except for them not also having an awesome capital city.

    I wouldn't consider "race shuffle" as a long term developmental barrier. There are only so many ways they can expand and differentiate player options, they aren't going to always be able to come up with totally new classes and totally new races. So, eventually, look for another round of race/class proliferation and some sort of race neutrality and/or in-game faction change option (defection).

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