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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharlok View Post
    I agree with everything OP said. There are three things though: visually ToT is not bad at all. its a very different theme and I personally dont like it as much as the theme that Ulduar has but it still looks good.

    secondly: Ulduar had portals that made travelling through the instance easier, I dont get why they they got rid of those.

    thirdly: There was a kick ass train in Ulduar.

    seriously though, the train had literally no purpose other than adding some flair to the raid. in the raid we loved to fight over who could press the buttons to interact with the environment. it was just a cool gimmick. ToT is lacking in that department in my opinion
    While I agree adding the portals would be a nice change, they now made it so that as you progress further into the raid, you enter the instance closer to the boss you are fighting. Back in Ulduar, you would always enter at the beginning of the raid IIRC.

    Train was awesome.

  2. #102
    Im thinking that players would have a different reaction if they had to spend half of the ulduar raid infiltrating the instance through the sewers.
    Most people would rather die than think, and most people do. -Bertrand Russell
    There is not a flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people. -Howard Zinn
    The stars may be far away, but people still reach for them. -My Grandfather
    Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

  3. #103
    ulduar doesnt have dinosaurs /endthread
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  4. #104
    Ulduar had all those qualities but it wasn't perfect.

    Its length was prohibitive for many.
    Most of the "cool hard mode activation" needed people to go out and figure it out.
    I was possible to accidentally trigger those lovely hard modes and cause wipes and waste time.
    The hole thing was a narrative de-tour from the LK story.

    I get it why so many people love the place. But I don't think its the best. I liked ICC better myself.

    In a way Ulduar was the last raid of its kind we would see until now, maybe that's the reason so many remember it so kindly. To me it wasn't, never managed to finish it and pugging the dreaded thing was impossible.

  5. #105
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Ulduar was great, no doubt - but so was Karazhan and so was Naxx. Yes, I went there...Naxx. The 40 man version and the WotLK version. Was the latter undertuned? no doubt about it, doesn't change the fact that the former was overtuned and that the undead theme remains brilliant.

    Bt was a great Instance too. And ICC was fantastic. Pick and chose. maybe Ulduar will eventually be hit by the rose-tinted-glasses syndrome eventually. Still I agree, it was a great raid.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  6. #106
    Ulduar was great if you were on the cutting edge. The bosses were too hard for normal raids. There were far too many bosses to clear. The raid didn't outlast its welcome because it was gone in a heartbeat. It also had over 2 patches worth of Development time.

    There was no PUGing uldar. There was no casual progression through ulduar. Ulduar killed casual raiding.

    Blizzard revamped the LFD tool and emblem system in 3.2 because very few people had the gear necessary to get into ToC.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Adramalech View Post
    Hakkar (leave his priests alive, he gets stronger), Eredar Twins (kill them in the harder order, drops extra loot if you succeed). You didn't have an achievement to track it, and Hakkar didn't drop different loot if you did his "hard mode" (I think), but twins did. But they were there. Those are the only I can think of, but they existed. If you look at it, Hakkar's "hard" mode was pretty much like Sartharion's in trigger, and Eredar Twins are just like Iron Council or Protectors of the Endless.

    Also, before you try to kill the twins and tell me they drop the same thing regardless of who you kill first: they were changed (don't remember which patch, but likely 3.0) to drop the same loot regardless of Alythess or Sacrolash going down first. But originally, their loot would change.
    Thanks for the info - wasn't aware of these two. Probably cause I never made it that far then !

  8. #108
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cortelas View Post

    There was no PUGing uldar. There was no casual progression through ulduar. Ulduar killed casual raiding.
    Interesting approach that...Ulduar killed casual raiding? What was before Ulduar? SSC, TK, Mt H, BT and SWP. I wasn't aware that "casual raiding" esisted even back then. Sure didn't feel casual when we were doing it. Not even Kara, not even ZA. Unless you want to make us believe casual raiding started with Naxx 10 and 25? And then Ulduar killed it? The raise and fall of casual raiding in 4 months? I give you that, the Naxx revamp was undertuned, but by no margin did casual raiding suddenly happen there.

    Not really, no? I would say "casual raiding" kinda started with the weekly raid quests and maybe ICC when the buff was rising and rising....
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by TyrianFC View Post
    In summary:

    Ulduars beautiful titan theme, lore, architecture and visually pleasing colour palette > Troll theme, troll lore and swamp murky green/blue colour palette.

    Throne of Thunder still looks good, but yes Ulduar just felt better. I attribute part of this to the Titan theme simply being a superior inspiration and tool for the artists and designers to work with.
    It was also a lot brighter once you got inside - we have a lot of dark and gloomy/muted color palettes to deal with, and Ulduar was properly lit.

  10. #110
    Ulduar was not the best raid ever
    Just one of the first raids half of the casual wow population has ever entered.
    My lines are so potent that in this small segment i made all of the ladies in the first 3 comments pregnant!

  11. #111
    Immortal KrazyK923's Avatar
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    The answer: Nostalgia + the philosophy of anything being repeated enough makes it true.

  12. #112
    The Patient AnotherInternetOpinion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bany View Post
    Ulduar was not the best raid ever
    Just one of the first raids half of the casual wow population has ever entered.

    Amen to that. Tell them how it is.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Spinachsandwich View Post
    Ulduar wasn't even the best raid in wrath.
    Posting things like this should get you a perman ban.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeb View Post
    Posting things like this should get you a perman ban.
    His opinion and he is entitled to it. Personally for me the really only good fights in Ulduar were mimiron, Freya and Yogg. Still have fantastic memories of Yogg fight. The differences of the 4 watcher fights and the variety in the scenery was awesome as well. But for me I still enjoyed ICC a lot more. Heroic Putricide was a fantastic fight and LK was as memorable if not more so than Yogg. There are no fights in ICC I look at and think "ugh, not this boss again" due to sheer boredom of the fight. With Ulduar the first 5 bosses (maybe with the exception of XT) were a complete snorefest.

  15. #115
    Tier 14 and 15 are very good raids. It's a mistake to judge them while you only do LFR OP. Ulduar was awesome, but I think the epic feeling of it was mostly because it didn't have the gimmicky heroic modes activated in the interface. It was one raid and you decided how to fight the bosses, by engaging them in a different way.
    I still think Sunwell was the best raid ever created. We all have our own subjective viewpoints though.
    Personally I think Ulduar is so highly praised because it is the last of the "proper raids". Raids that weren't puggable even on normal. The vast majority didn't see even half of Ulduar, not even on normal, when it was current. It was mysterious and cool which makes a lot of people claim it was the best, regardless of whether they actually raided it.

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