ignoring crit in socket bonuses as Ret

[420psilo]

last night I received Cloudbreaker Greatbelt I cant link to the item yet so here's the basic stats.

It has a red and a yellow socket and the socket bonus is +120 crit it will also have a prismatic socket.

Im at 510 ilvl and from the sims I have run Haste is now more than a 2 to 1 favorite over Str

So i'm gemming, after the belt buckle, with 3 320 haste gems and ignoring the 120 crit socket bonus. Just looking for a 2nd opinion on that. It comes down to sacrificing 160 haste for 80 str and 120 crit. To me it seems like a no-brainer but after looking thru some other rets battlenet profiles I have seen haste/str hybrid gem. The ret paladin Tier 15 shoulders are going to be in a similar situation as well.

your thoughts and opinions are appreciated as usual.

[ZeroEdgeir]

You have to factor in total worth.

Is the 160 Haste > 80 Str + 120 Crit. This will be down to individual stat-weights, but going to need to add up those numbers, of which is worth more.

While we do value Haste very highly, Mastery and Crit do have their values with us too, and are not negatives. Personally, in this expansion, I've been opting for every single socket bonus, regardless. While Haste might be worth a bit more in a vacuum, in reality, it's value goes up with more Crit/Mastery, as those increase the actual damage done per attack, while Haste just increases the frequency of attack. And when the rough weights of Haste vs Mastery vs Crit are 0.54 vs 0.43 vs 0.43 (as per EJ's 5.2 Ret guide, I know it will vary by personal sim), we are not hurting to take a Str/Haste gem to get a crit bonus.

At the very rough, stock weights given there, the total value of the 160 Haste is worth 86.4 Strength. 80 Strength + 120 Crit (51.6 Strength value) = 131.6 Strength

[420psilo]

I certainly don't view the crit as a negative. If its down to individual stat weights then personally the 160 haste is far more valuable to myself atm. I second guess my self a lot and I am always trying to get the most outta my gear, the best way to gather info im finding is to talk with the community of others playing the class. I made this thread to make sure i didnt see a reply of someone saying ' OMG no, but wat about all teh Crit you need for the...' or ' U cant gem like that u fool' and so on. i managed to Rank 47 ret dps on Tortos last night on WoL with 175k dps so i don't exactly feel like I'm that far off the mark. Just always trying to tighten up my game. thx for the reply.

[ZeroEdgeir]

Always gonna want to go with overall gain.

For 160 Haste to be worth more than 80 Str + 120 Crit, your value on Haste would have to be 0.82 Strength per Haste point, which would be INSANE, and this early in the tier, is highly doubtful.

More of 1 stat, makes the others worth more, as they are all interwoven.

Haste makes us attack faster, making Mastery and Crit worth more to make the attacks hit harder.
Crit gives us those nice big numbers, making Mastery more valued since it scales off of critical hits, but also Haste, so we can get more attacks to land.
Mastery adds extra damage to every swing, making Haste more valued to get more attacks, and Crit indirectly boosts Mastery due to how Hand of Light works.

All nicely interwoven, and IMO, worth it for the socket bonus.

[Deleted]

I use mainly haste or strength gems but haven't seen myself avoiding crit rating bonuses yet, I haven't had to either which helps some.

[Revvo]

Do the math. Sim out your weights and do the math for the stats. 320 haste vs 160 haste, 80 strength, and 120 crit. In this case I think the crit bonus wins out. You can also take a quick look at some other paladins armorys. I know for a fact that anaxie is wearing this same belt with a haste/strength gem in it.

[420psilo]

another possibility would be to use a Exp / haste hybrid gem in that slot. that option seems to be pretty good and recommended by askmrrobot. With my current reforging it means i wont have to get exp from any haste or mastery. I know askmrrobot isn't the end all in definitive char builiding but i do value the results of it as more of a general guide. however in this case i can see it making sense.

So i just ran a quick Sim and according to my scale factors for every 1 str I receive a 3.68 gain in dps. from every 1 haste a gain of 2.31 dps. and every 1 crit a gain of 1.77 dps...

320 haste = 739.2

160 haste, 80 str, 120 crit = 369.6 + 294.4 + 212.4 = 876.4

So i guess the answer is clear there. assuming im doing my math correctly. the bonus is worth it.

the next question is what about the haste/exp hybrid gem how to i determine its worth in this sitaution?

[Sheridanjohn]

another possibility would be to use a Exp / haste hybrid gem in that slot. that option seems to be pretty good and recommended by askmrrobot. With my current reforging it means i wont have to get exp from any haste or mastery. I know askmrrobot isn't the end all in definitive char builiding but i do value the results of it as more of a general guide. however in this case i can see it making sense.

So i just ran a quick Sim and according to my scale factors for every 1 str I receive a 3.68 gain in dps. from every 1 haste a gain of 2.31 dps. and every 1 crit a gain of 1.77 dps...

320 haste = 739.2

160 haste, 80 str, 120 crit = 369.6 + 294.4 + 212.4 = 876.4

So i guess the answer is clear there. assuming im doing my math correctly. the bonus is worth it.

the next question is what about the haste/exp hybrid gem how to i determine its worth in this sitaution?

With expertise what i usually do is figure out what stat i can gain then compare this against the +80 str, for example if you could afford to reforge out of expertise into haste somewhere (160) then you would be comparing haste vs str, however if everything was already reforged well and you could only get crit or mastery then you compare that stat to strength, use a reforge calc to work it out