How the US Military has changed during the last 10 years

[Deleted]

http://www.stripes.com/news/army/10t...rains-1.212413

Here is an interesting article that is worth a read, it is all about how attitudes, equipment and training have changed since the invasion of Iraq. I know there are a lot of veterans on this board, so many of them can relate.

[Rukentuts]

My main question is: why did it take us until Iraq to adapt? The exact same tactics were often used by the Vietcong.

[Deleted]

My main question is: why did it take us until Iraq to adapt? The exact same tactics were often used by the Vietcong.

That IS a question worth asking, the British learned their lessons in Northern Ireland, IED's and carbombs were a common weapon back then. I have no idea why the USA did not learn from the vietcong.

[Zubril]

I can't speak for the Army, but the Marine Corps has been emphasizing/adapting urban combat techniques since the battle of Hue, in Vietnam.

[NoRest4Wicked]

I think a big issue was that during the invasion of Iraq, the majority of high ranking commanders had never been in a wartime situation, as there were fewer remaining Vietnam vets. The cold war mentality of tank on tank warfare was prevalent and the TTPs reflected this, vs being adapted for a more guerrilla warfare style conflict.

[Deleted]

Sounds good. It's sensible that Coalition forces should train to be more familiar with the kind of conflicts occurring between conventional militaries and terrorist cells and not two belligerent state militaries. I think it's highly unlikely that we'll see a proper State vs State conflict until fuel reserves become critically low (even then, it's probably a slim possibility).

If UN troops do get involved in Syria or somewhere, maybe it'll mean that the fighting can be over more quickly and at a lower cost (in terms of human lives as well as capital resources) than it was when the Ba'athists were ousted in Iraq. (It'd be weird if Syrian intervention and the deposing of the ruling Ba'ath Party there happened this year, a decade after the deposition of the one in Iraq!)

I was really pleased to read about the old DPM camouflage of British armed forces getting replaced with the Multi-terrain variant of the 'Multicam'. That pattern is amazing! It out performs the green DPM and desert version in loads of different environments! It's weird! I hear the Americans are replacing that god-awful pixelated crap with their own version of 'Multicam' too. It's nice to think Nato/UN troops will be more difficult to target affectively in most situations in the future.

[Deleted]

Sounds good. It's sensible that Coalition forces should train to be more familiar with the kind of conflicts occurring between conventional militaries and terrorist cells and not two belligerent state militaries. I think it's highly unlikely that we'll see a proper State vs State conflict until fuel reserves become critically low (even then, it's probably a slim possibility).

If UN troops do get involved in Syria or somewhere, maybe it'll mean that the fighting can be over more quickly and at a lower cost (in terms of human lives as well as capital resources) than it was when the Ba'athists were ousted in Iraq. (It'd be weird if Syrian intervention and the deposing of the ruling Ba'ath Party there happened this year, a decade after the deposition of the one in Iraq!)

I was really pleased to read about the old DPM camouflage of British armed forces getting replaced with the Multi-terrain variant of the 'Multicam'. That pattern is amazing! It out performs the green DPM and desert version in loads of different environments! It's weird! I hear the Americans are replacing that god-awful pixelated crap with their own version of 'Multicam' too. It's nice to think Nato/UN troops will be more difficult to target affectively in most situations in the future.

I will miss the DPM, nothing beats the green pattern for woodland areas, I intend to keep a few sets for when I go hunting. MTP is good, but is not so great in British woodlands, you do show yourself like a set of bulldogs balls.

[Fenicks]

As someone who served in the Army from 2006-2010, I can definitely agree that it's made some pretty big changes over the last decade. When I was going through BCT at Benning, the drill sergeants training me already had combat experience from Iraq. They told us about how they used to have to sleep on towels because there weren't many decent facilities back when the war first started. By the time I deployed in 2008, we had our own rooms.

Don't even let me get started on how different the training is now...

[Deleted]

I will miss the DPM, nothing beats the green pattern for woodland areas, I intend to keep a few sets for when I go hunting. MTP is good, but is not so great in British woodlands, you do show yourself like a set of bulldogs balls.

Haha! Aye, it's a really nice pattern aesthetically (I get the feeling it'll become a fashion vintage) and very well suited to our little islands local flora etc, but, as I was alluding to in my prior post, it's very unlikely that wars will be fought on domestic soil any time soon and the MTP seems way better suited to the kind of mixed-terrain areas where British troops are likely to be fighting over the next couple of decades.

But, hey, personally, I think the MTP even out-performs the DPM in certain British environments! Like North York Moors-esque terrain:

And here.

[Deleted]

As someone who served in the Army from 2006-2010, I can definitely agree that it's made some pretty big changes over the last decade. When I was going through BCT at Benning, the drill sergeants training me already had combat experience from Iraq. They told us about how they used to have to sleep on towels because there weren't many decent facilities back when the war first started. By the time I deployed in 2008, we had our own rooms.

Don't even let me get started on how different the training is now...

When I first joined up, Iraq had only just started almost every instructor had their Northern Ireland medal but very little combat experience between them, now pretty much every instructor has real experiences to talk about.

[Mihalik]

My main question is: why did it take us until Iraq to adapt? The exact same tactics were often used by the Vietcong.

Not really. Iraq especially and Afghanistan to some extent is mostly urban warfare, counter insurgency, and counter terrorism. The Vietcong where a guerilla force, but organised along tried and proved WW2 era partisan fighters. They still emulated military organisation and often fough with military tactics, such as massed attacks, flankings and infiltration. The Iraqi insurgency and the Afghan Mujahedin are a different piece of pie.

[Sam the Wiser]

My question is when was the last time tank warfare was used. I don't ever hear anybody rolling out in tanks anymore. Yet didn't we just order thousands of new tanks?

[Deleted]

My question is when was the last time tank warfare was used. I don't ever hear anybody rolling out in tanks anymore. Yet didn't we just order thousands of new tanks?

Gulf war and the start of Iraq round 2, Most tankies nowadays tend to act as dismounted Infantry or drive and operate other vehicles.

[Tinykong]

My question is when was the last time tank warfare was used. I don't ever hear anybody rolling out in tanks anymore. Yet didn't we just order thousands of new tanks?

Government spending isn't about what you need, it's about spending as much as you can so that next year you can be sure they give you the same, if not more, money.

[Rukentuts]

Not really. Iraq especially and Afghanistan to some extent is mostly urban warfare, counter insurgency, and counter terrorism. The Vietcong where a guerilla force, but organised along tried and proved WW2 era partisan fighters. They still emulated military organisation and often fough with military tactics, such as massed attacks, flankings and infiltration. The Iraqi insurgency and the Afghan Mujahedin are a different piece of pie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NLF_and...battle_tactics

They were basically a combination of the two, although their insurgency-like tactics were far more effective.

[Mihalik]

My question is when was the last time tank warfare was used. I don't ever hear anybody rolling out in tanks anymore. Yet didn't we just order thousands of new tanks?

Both the Chinese and the Russians are working on new generations of tanks such as the Russian ARMATA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univers..._Platform_T-99.

Tank on tank warfare is still a possibility considering how the Russians are prone to shiploads of pretty much every weapon they make. Additionally tank warfare has changed, but it's still around and kicking, altought today it acts mostly as close infrantry support.

One of the last major tank battles was in 1991 during the Gulf War. Altought it was a rather one sided fight as Allied forces where shooting at Russian tanks made in the 50s.

[Deleted]

Both the Chinese and the Russians are working on new generations of tanks such as the Russian ARMATA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univers..._Platform_T-99.

Tank on tank warfare is still a possibility considering how the Russians are prone to shiploads of pretty much every weapon they make. Additionally tank warfare has changed, but it's still around and kicking, altought today it acts mostly as close infrantry support.

One of the last major tank battles was in 1991 during the Gulf War. Altought it was a rather one sided fight as Allied forces where shooting at Russian tanks made in the 50s.

I am not a tankie so my knowledge of tanks is limited, but didn't our modern tanks out range their old T-55's by 3 times the distance?

[Rukentuts]

I am not a tankie so my knowledge of tanks is limited, but didn't our modern tanks out range their old T-55's by 3 times the distance?

I'm not a tankie (just a civilian) but wouldn't urban environments be somewhat hazardous to tanks? You know, sitting ducks + big targets and all?

[Mihalik]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NLF_and...battle_tactics

They were basically a combination of the two, although their insurgency-like tactics were far more effective.

Actually these guy have almost nothing to do with how modern Insurgents and the Mujahedin fight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactics...aqi_insurgency
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban

Recommend you read about these.

Modern insurgency tactics are much more efficient than anything used by the Vietcong. And again. You are confusing Guerilla Warfare with Insurgency. They are different categories and are fought differently.

[Kraenen]

My main question is: why did it take us until Iraq to adapt? The exact same tactics were often used by the Vietcong.

heck, these kind of gorilla tactics were used even by the japanese and germans in ww2