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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by vmagik View Post
    You could be right - will have to agree to disagree because I CBA looking for proof right now. As far as I'm aware it can stop way more than the damage cap per person, mitigating 75% of an initial hit, unlike AMS

    EDIT - a quick look around the forum does show this:

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-UH?p=14652070

    quote from EJ, admittedly this was back in cata but don't think it has changed since then:

    Anti-Magic Zone:
    AMZ is the best utility an Unholy DK brings to a raid, and is alone a good enough reason not spec Frost. When used correctly, this will be your raid's strongest defensive CD. Do not be fooled by the tooltip to think it will only absorb the stated amount of damage. In reality, it will first absorb 75% of the next magical attack, and only THEN, if the amount absorbed exceeded the stated amount, it will vanish. Therefore, it works best when soaking single high-dmg attacks, and fails miserably soaking multiple low-dmg attacks.




    Again, it's almost a moot point - situations like this are so few and far between that it generally ends up being eaten away in a couple of ticks of a random magical ability. If you DO get situations like elementium bolt/flame scythe then it can be awesome, otherwise it's generally pretty poor.

    This is correct on how it works, look at mechanics like Ultraxion Hour of Twilight soaking, H Madness bolt soaking, or even as current as Lei Shi for tanks.

    It absorbs 75 percent of the damage of 1 attack, if attackDamage > absorbLimit then AMZ disappears, if not it stays for absorb limit, which is why it isn't good for soaking breaths (that do X amount of damage every second for X seconds) or Auras (same concept as breaths).

  2. #22
    As soon as it just becomes PW:Barrier 2.0, it becomes mandatory for raiding. Period.

    I don't think they would ever go that far with the talent.

  3. #23
    Wouldn't mind it being a bit better, but it's still awesome for big magic blows on the raid, since it does absorb 75% of the full damage-income in that blow, and then disappear.
    Close to worthless at small constant damage.
    Would rather prefer the rune tap-glyph back, than improved AMZ, but wouldn't complain either if they changed it.
    Do feel a bit annoying not to be able to help the raid much.
    Everyone has so much to say
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  4. #24
    Dreadlord Spaff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    No, this is again a misunderstanding of the ability.
    I give up -.-

  5. #25
    I'm pretty sure ivan is right, i can't actually pull out numbers but from what i've seen on ragnaros, madness, elegon that's the way it works (on ragnaros amz was better that any raid CD when the seeds of corruption exploded after their landing). Lei chi is a good example but i never actually took it on this boss because vengeance makes lichborne really awesome

    For meagera the breath works like a dot on itself and, furthermore, if you had the red head dot still ticking on you, you couldn't see if it really absorb 75% of a single tick damage.
    We are currently progressing on durumu so i never tried lei shen, but from i've seen of the mechanics it could be tested on static shock

  6. #26
    Also, are we STILL arguing how AMZ works? It hasn't changed since Cataclysm.

  7. #27
    The Lightbringer Asrialol's Avatar
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    It should be pretty easy to test how it works if you're unsure. Just get naked and use it while dueling a caster that can crit for more than your health. When naked, your health should be rather low anyway.

    If it absorbs 75% of the hit, vmagik is right. If it absorbs the hit up to 75% of your health, Mione is right.

    Easy fix! I'd test it if I wasn't busy eating cookies and such. Sorry!

  8. #28
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    It was quite handy on elegon during the add explosions, but the damage cap is a bit low imo.
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  9. #29
    make it baseline for blood dks, ramp up the absorb a bit, and take it away from frost/UH. dps shouldnt get powerfull raid cd's, tanks should dragonsoul tier status. making it better now forces every dk into a non choice of talent on any magic dmg fights. that's bad

  10. #30
    Wouldn't it be far more useful as a utility CD to have it operate like a Devo Aura than to absorb 75% of one attack? I mean, how often per tier do we have "giant meteor crashing down and dealing a fuckton of damage in one massive hit" fights? One? Maybe two? For most heavy CD phases (Feng, Elegon, Will, Bladelord, Garalon, Windlord, Ambershaper, Empress, Elite Protectors (at the end), etc etc they are a decent amount of damage coming out that is over 10-20seconds. Those fights are the ones I just listed off the top of my head.

    Now if we say AMZ works only against magic, then that's ok, imo. It's still a decent utility that will allow us DK's to bring SOMETHING to the table. Most fights where I have to drop AMZ it lasts for about .7seconds like in Meg or Elegon or Feng or Ambershaper. It's an incredibly minor CD that borders on useless except for the teeny-tiny small amounts of fights that have one big magic damage spike. I don't know. It's better than nothing, don't get me wrong, but I personally believe that it could be more useful without being ridiculous.

  11. #31
    There are more than enough raid cooldowns coming from dps already.

    Our pve survivability as dps needs help, so I will continue to spec purgatory until blizzard does something about this.
    Last edited by Shiira; 2013-03-21 at 04:27 PM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Shenanigasm View Post
    Wouldn't it be far more useful as a utility CD to have it operate like a Devo Aura than to absorb 75% of one attack?
    No doubt it would, but at what point does it become a choice talent and when does it become mandatory?

    If it worked like a blanket dmg reduction talent, even for just magic, it would be mandatory for any semi-serious raid comp.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    No doubt it would, but at what point does it become a choice talent and when does it become mandatory?

    If it worked like a blanket dmg reduction talent, even for just magic, it would be mandatory for any semi-serious raid comp.
    Not necessarily, my own raid comp has plenty of cooldowns, with a warrior, pally, priest, and druid. It's not like we are lacking. It would be a useless talent on fights like Windlord simply because most of the damage is physical. And unless there is a portion of a fight where everyone is tightly stacked, it would also be useless to due its small range. There aren't a huge amount fights with the high magic damage and the availability to stack where this could be used. But the times that it CAN be used, it should be able to help out in some noticeable way, and not just a drop in the bucket in terms of mitigation.

    The fights where it cannot be use effectively as a raid CD, the talent could simply be changed to something else like purgatory. I rarely use purgatory simply because of the heals I can use on my myself and effective CD use, that I rarely die unless it's a wipe. So if I'm speccing into anyway, I'd like it to be something that makes a difference, if not, then give me something that does.
    Last edited by Shenanigasm; 2013-03-21 at 04:42 PM.

  14. #34
    Change Gorefiend's Grasp so that it is a "place-able" AoE such as DnD, add a glyph that allows for it to hit friendly targets instead of enemy targets (restricted to those in party, raid, etc. etc. basically mass lifegrip) and change AMZ back to being dropped on the DK, so that it is no longer a place-able AoE. Make it absorb a standard 30% magic damage for, I don't know, 7 seconds? This increases the utility of Gorefiend's Grasp (outside of "Hey let's use this ability to stack adds and that's all it'll ever be used for") and decreases AMZ's utility in some situations, but increases it greatly across the board. That's just what I would do, at least.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoomin View Post
    outside of "Hey let's use this ability to stack adds and that's all it'll ever be used for"
    Use your imagination, it's a death grip that can send things to places other than where the death knight is.

    I like our level 90 talents, I just wish there were more opportunities to use them in t15.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Shenanigasm View Post
    Not necessarily, my own raid comp has plenty of cooldowns, with a warrior, pally, priest, and druid. It's not like we are lacking. It would be a useless talent on fights like Windlord simply because most of the damage is physical. And unless there is a portion of a fight where everyone is tightly stacked, it would also be useless to due its small range. There aren't a huge amount fights with the high magic damage and the availability to stack where this could be used. But the times that it CAN be used, it should be able to help out in some noticeable way, and not just a drop in the bucket in terms of mitigation.

    The fights where it cannot be use effectively as a raid CD, the talent could simply be changed to something else like purgatory. I rarely use purgatory simply because of the heals I can use on my myself and effective CD use, that I rarely die unless it's a wipe. So if I'm speccing into anyway, I'd like it to be something that makes a difference, if not, then give me something that does.
    Jinrohk, great
    Horridon, no magic.
    Council, on heroic, good for Kazra'jin empower
    Tortos, good for rockfall
    Megaera, good multiple times
    Ji'kun, physical
    Durumu, lots of uses
    Dark Animus, raid wide magic dmg
    Twins, magic dmg
    Lei Shen, magic damage

    2 out of 12, wouldn't be applicable. Far more useful than not, to the point where if I didn't spec into it for raid nights, I'd probably be yelled at.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoomin View Post
    Change Gorefiend's Grasp so that it is a "place-able" AoE such as DnD, add a glyph that allows for it to hit friendly targets instead of enemy targets (restricted to those in party, raid, etc. etc. basically mass lifegrip) and change AMZ back to being dropped on the DK, so that it is no longer a place-able AoE. Make it absorb a standard 30% magic damage for, I don't know, 7 seconds? This increases the utility of Gorefiend's Grasp (outside of "Hey let's use this ability to stack adds and that's all it'll ever be used for") and decreases AMZ's utility in some situations, but increases it greatly across the board. That's just what I would do, at least.
    Not sure where Gorefiend's grasp came into play here, since we are talking about AMZ....

    The point I'm trying to make, and made earlier, was that the AoE effect that AMZ has is indicative that it is meant to be used as a raid/group CD. However, the incredibly small amount of damage it absorbs, renders it useless, except in highly specific and very rare circumstances. That, in my mind, renders it damn near useless. What's the point of picking a talent that can be used properly and actually make a difference in 1 fight in 20 or 30? Either change it to something like Devo Aura or make it something totally different, that you know, does something.

    Like I said earlier, most times when I need to use it, it lasts for .7 seconds. That's not right. What's the point? It takes longer to actually drop it than it lasts and mitigates damage. I just don't get it. Something like 10% magic damage reduction for 10sec would be great. Wouldn't break the bank for PvE or PvP. It still can only be used in the bubble, so I dont' think this is some incredibly gamechanging cooldown. And since it's contingent upon stacking, it could still only be used in certain cicrumstances.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Terahertz View Post
    AMZ should scale with attack power IMO. It's just going to fall behind the other two choices for PvP, and most likely also for PvE at some point, seeing as damage taken will continue to increase.
    That would only make it even worse for frost/unholy and potentially OP for high vengeance...
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  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Terahertz View Post
    AMZ should scale with attack power IMO. It's just going to fall behind the other two choices for PvP, and most likely also for PvE at some point, seeing as damage taken will continue to increase.
    It scales with Strength right now, makes it slightly better for Unholy, funny enough.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    Jinrohk, great
    Horridon, no magic.
    Council, on heroic, good for Kazra'jin empower
    Tortos, good for rockfall
    Megaera, good multiple times
    Ji'kun, physical
    Durumu, lots of uses
    Dark Animus, raid wide magic dmg
    Twins, magic dmg
    Lei Shen, magic damage

    2 out of 12, wouldn't be applicable. Far more useful than not, to the point where if I didn't spec into it for raid nights, I'd probably be yelled at.
    Don't get me wrong, I spec into it pretty much all of the time. I use it as much as I can. But saying that it helps just a teeny-tiny little bit, doesn't mean that it's that useful. It would be a fantastic personal cooldown....kind of. Except for the fact that our baseline, AMS is better... But if it was meant for a personal CD then, why the AoE effect? And if it is meant for a raid CD, then why is it so specifically tuned to take ONE big hit, rather than the 10-20seconds of high damage that most raids give out?

    What boss, current content does damage in one big hit that everyone has to stack for? Not talking about Meg's rampage or anything like that. But say like a magical Chimaeron(however you spell that name) in BWD. One big hit and everyone's health plummets? Tortos' stomp, but that's physical damage. I'm asking because I honestly don't know and am curious. We just killed Meg last night, so we're not quite halfway through ToT. fangless, I know you're on my server and you guys are doing heroics. What fight is AMZ really that good against?

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