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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoomin View Post
    Change Gorefiend's Grasp so that it is a "place-able" AoE such as DnD, add a glyph that allows for it to hit friendly targets instead of enemy targets (restricted to those in party, raid, etc. etc. basically mass lifegrip) and change AMZ back to being dropped on the DK, so that it is no longer a place-able AoE. Make it absorb a standard 30% magic damage for, I don't know, 7 seconds? This increases the utility of Gorefiend's Grasp (outside of "Hey let's use this ability to stack adds and that's all it'll ever be used for") and decreases AMZ's utility in some situations, but increases it greatly across the board. That's just what I would do, at least.
    Not sure where Gorefiend's grasp came into play here, since we are talking about AMZ....

    The point I'm trying to make, and made earlier, was that the AoE effect that AMZ has is indicative that it is meant to be used as a raid/group CD. However, the incredibly small amount of damage it absorbs, renders it useless, except in highly specific and very rare circumstances. That, in my mind, renders it damn near useless. What's the point of picking a talent that can be used properly and actually make a difference in 1 fight in 20 or 30? Either change it to something like Devo Aura or make it something totally different, that you know, does something.

    Like I said earlier, most times when I need to use it, it lasts for .7 seconds. That's not right. What's the point? It takes longer to actually drop it than it lasts and mitigates damage. I just don't get it. Something like 10% magic damage reduction for 10sec would be great. Wouldn't break the bank for PvE or PvP. It still can only be used in the bubble, so I dont' think this is some incredibly gamechanging cooldown. And since it's contingent upon stacking, it could still only be used in certain cicrumstances.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Terahertz View Post
    AMZ should scale with attack power IMO. It's just going to fall behind the other two choices for PvP, and most likely also for PvE at some point, seeing as damage taken will continue to increase.
    That would only make it even worse for frost/unholy and potentially OP for high vengeance...
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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Terahertz View Post
    AMZ should scale with attack power IMO. It's just going to fall behind the other two choices for PvP, and most likely also for PvE at some point, seeing as damage taken will continue to increase.
    It scales with Strength right now, makes it slightly better for Unholy, funny enough.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    Jinrohk, great
    Horridon, no magic.
    Council, on heroic, good for Kazra'jin empower
    Tortos, good for rockfall
    Megaera, good multiple times
    Ji'kun, physical
    Durumu, lots of uses
    Dark Animus, raid wide magic dmg
    Twins, magic dmg
    Lei Shen, magic damage

    2 out of 12, wouldn't be applicable. Far more useful than not, to the point where if I didn't spec into it for raid nights, I'd probably be yelled at.
    Don't get me wrong, I spec into it pretty much all of the time. I use it as much as I can. But saying that it helps just a teeny-tiny little bit, doesn't mean that it's that useful. It would be a fantastic personal cooldown....kind of. Except for the fact that our baseline, AMS is better... But if it was meant for a personal CD then, why the AoE effect? And if it is meant for a raid CD, then why is it so specifically tuned to take ONE big hit, rather than the 10-20seconds of high damage that most raids give out?

    What boss, current content does damage in one big hit that everyone has to stack for? Not talking about Meg's rampage or anything like that. But say like a magical Chimaeron(however you spell that name) in BWD. One big hit and everyone's health plummets? Tortos' stomp, but that's physical damage. I'm asking because I honestly don't know and am curious. We just killed Meg last night, so we're not quite halfway through ToT. fangless, I know you're on my server and you guys are doing heroics. What fight is AMZ really that good against?

  5. #45
    I went digging through some logs of some random Jin'rokh kill I went to and found this to prove how AMZ works.

    http://i.imgur.com/N0WI8Lm.png

    This is a a 75 percent absorb over the cap of what AMZ should be.

    Link to the expression editor of it for those who care.

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-i2...-Magic+Zone%22

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan017 View Post
    I went digging through some logs of some random Jin'rokh kill I went to and found this to prove how AMZ works.

    http://i.imgur.com/N0WI8Lm.png

    This is a a 75 percent absorb over the cap of what AMZ should be.

    Link to the expression editor of it for those who care.

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-i2...-Magic+Zone%22
    No, this is not a 75% absorb over the cap. Every single absorb is under the cap. The server lag allows it to be applied to multiple players if the ability hits them at the same time, thus exceeding the cap.

    edit: but it appears it can go over the cap even on a single absorb, just tested it. it's weird, because it never behaved that way in LK.
    Last edited by Mionelol; 2013-03-21 at 05:49 PM.

  7. #47
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    AMZ is useful for a single burst of AoE damage. Let me see...

    For T14, there really aren't many bursts, most AoE damage tends to come in the form of either A) One big physical hit, or B) many many small magic hits over time.

    Most of the "big" magic hits are generally from failing a certain mechanic. However, there is a few... On normal elegon, AMZ is a powerful cooldown to soak Annihilates, which hit pretty hard. On Stone Guard heroic, if tanks mess up the taunting order and its clear there will be a bad blow-up, proper use of AMZ can help your raid to survive that bad blow-up, and hopefully down the boss before you meet the next one. On Jin'rokh, AMZ usage can help to survive a focused lightning in the raid, or an implosion, or even that one heroic mechanic that explodes for mega damage.

    Generally, AMZ can be interpreted as "The next magical AoE damage pulse is reduced by 75%". During T13, DS, there was a large number of singular damage pulses, such as Elementium Bolt, Hour of Twilight, Bouncing Balls on Zon, Twilight Onslaught on the boats, ect. However, for T14, and most of T15, there really aren't ANY singular damage pulses that one has to look out for.

    So, it's not so much that AMZ is useless, as much as blizzards current fight design makes it useless. Powerful in certain situations, but those situations aren't appearing at all for this tier.
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  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    No, this is not a 75% absorb over the cap. Every single absorb is under the cap. The server lag allows it to be applied to multiple players if the ability hits them at the same time, thus exceeding the cap.

    edit: but it appears it can go over the cap even on a single absorb, just tested it. it's weird, because it never behaved that way in LK.
    I am quite sure that it works at 75% for everybody standing in it. I know I used it a couple times on heroic Stoneguards explosions way back when and they barely tickled anyone standing in the AMZ.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    No, this is not a 75% absorb over the cap. Every single absorb is under the cap. The server lag allows it to be applied to multiple players if the ability hits them at the same time, thus exceeding the cap.

    edit: but it appears it can go over the cap even on a single absorb, just tested it. it's weird, because it never behaved that way in LK.
    I believe it was changed in cataclysm and has been 75% first ever since.
    why it was extremely good on ragnaros, majordomo, madness

  10. #50
    AMZ has a niche; this is a good thing. It's neither useless, nor mandatory, it has some situations where it brings a valuable asset to your raid, some times when it's almost useless, and other times when it IS useless.
    It fits in very well for the intended design of talents, eg real choices, where there is no right answer.

  11. #51
    On all 12 bosses I only found 1 situation where it isn't close to useless, and thats on Static Shock during the transition phase on Lei Shen (25m)

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Mendenbarr View Post
    AMZ has a niche; this is a good thing. It's neither useless, nor mandatory, it has some situations where it brings a valuable asset to your raid, some times when it's almost useless, and other times when it IS useless.
    It fits in very well for the intended design of talents, eg real choices, where there is no right answer.
    And with these comments, DKs will simply end up dying in competitive environments because rogues and warriors are ALWAYS a better choice in any given situation..
    It's NOT right that DKs have no way to improve a raid's survivability by providing something useful like a raid CD or a healing assist.

    Make AMZ a BASELINE ability because it's a fucking key spell to this class and deserves to be more represented. Make it a percentage-based damage reduction, just like PW: Barrier and Smoke Bomb but for MAGIC. Then add another Tier2 talent in its stead.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Djouga View Post
    It's NOT right that DKs have no way to improve a raid's survivability by providing something useful like a raid CD or a healing assist.
    There are plenty of specs that lack a raid cooldown and most of them are doing just fine.

    Anti magic zone is not an essential part of our class, I'd love to see it made useful in more situations but I'd be happy with some better personal survivability.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiira View Post
    There are plenty of specs that lack a raid cooldown and most of them are doing just fine.

    Anti magic zone is not an essential part of our class, I'd love to see it made useful in more situations but I'd be happy with some better personal survivability.
    What about tank utility though ?

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  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiira View Post
    There are plenty of specs that lack a raid cooldown and most of them are doing just fine.

    Anti magic zone is not an essential part of our class, I'd love to see it made useful in more situations but I'd be happy with some better personal survivability.
    The only spec I can think of off the top of my head that doesn't "bring anything" to the raid is mages. But they have mage tables and ports plus a crit buff so they are ok. We have a attack speed/attack power. Every other class has some sort of raid utility, whether it's a lock with healthstones or summoning stone or druid with tranq or rogue with smoke bomb or warrior with his shout and banner or even a hunter bringing potentially 5 different buffs to raid, including bloodlust, they all have something that we do not. I really feel that making AMZ into a viable raid cooldown would definitely be beneficial

  16. #56
    What about making it work like a AoE AMS?
    AMS gives runic power per dmg absorbed, so it would be a great resource CD...
    For ppl who stand in it, gets resource regen based on magic absorbed.

    Would make total sense for 10% absorbed for 5 secs (example), and part of that 10% is modified into the character's resource type (mana, rage, energy, runic power, focus)


    Really OP, but with some scaling I think it could work great.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Asheriah View Post
    What about tank utility though ?
    What about it? Plenty of specs lack that as well.

    We can't all be warriors or paladins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shenanigasm View Post
    The only spec I can think of off the top of my head that doesn't "bring anything" to the raid is mages.
    You're very quick to forget how good our utility was in t14.
    Last edited by Shiira; 2013-03-22 at 06:10 PM.

  18. #58
    It is op on things that is slow hitting , is magic dmg and hit hard as a mf. Aka majordomo cleave for instance. All talents are situational, u can't expect it to be used in every boss fight, that's why u have a choice of 3 in each tier. I think it serves it's purpose just fine as it is atm.
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  19. #59
    I feel like it's fine as a "weak" raid cooldown. Some things can have a small, but useful effect and still have their place in the game.
    More importantly though, if AMZ was buffed to be a strong raid cooldown it'd also require making it baseline (mandatory talent choices aren't fun), or buffing and rebalancing the other two abilities on the tier to compete.

    I like AMZ in its current incarnation. It's nice to be able to throw it down to lend a helping hand from time to time without stressing too much about whether you're using your one big cooldown at the most optimal moment in the fight.

  20. #60
    AMZ has been amazing in some situations but garbage in others. I like the aspect of being able to absorb a good bit of damage from a single attack (static shock during Lei Shen's transitions, allowing me to 2 man a quadrant with ease) but then absolutely suck for periods of sustained magic damage.

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