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  1. #41
    I went digging through some logs of some random Jin'rokh kill I went to and found this to prove how AMZ works.

    http://i.imgur.com/N0WI8Lm.png

    This is a a 75 percent absorb over the cap of what AMZ should be.

    Link to the expression editor of it for those who care.

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-i2...-Magic+Zone%22

  2. #42
    Scarab Lord Raugnaut's Avatar
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    AMZ is useful for a single burst of AoE damage. Let me see...

    For T14, there really aren't many bursts, most AoE damage tends to come in the form of either A) One big physical hit, or B) many many small magic hits over time.

    Most of the "big" magic hits are generally from failing a certain mechanic. However, there is a few... On normal elegon, AMZ is a powerful cooldown to soak Annihilates, which hit pretty hard. On Stone Guard heroic, if tanks mess up the taunting order and its clear there will be a bad blow-up, proper use of AMZ can help your raid to survive that bad blow-up, and hopefully down the boss before you meet the next one. On Jin'rokh, AMZ usage can help to survive a focused lightning in the raid, or an implosion, or even that one heroic mechanic that explodes for mega damage.

    Generally, AMZ can be interpreted as "The next magical AoE damage pulse is reduced by 75%". During T13, DS, there was a large number of singular damage pulses, such as Elementium Bolt, Hour of Twilight, Bouncing Balls on Zon, Twilight Onslaught on the boats, ect. However, for T14, and most of T15, there really aren't ANY singular damage pulses that one has to look out for.

    So, it's not so much that AMZ is useless, as much as blizzards current fight design makes it useless. Powerful in certain situations, but those situations aren't appearing at all for this tier.
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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    No, this is not a 75% absorb over the cap. Every single absorb is under the cap. The server lag allows it to be applied to multiple players if the ability hits them at the same time, thus exceeding the cap.

    edit: but it appears it can go over the cap even on a single absorb, just tested it. it's weird, because it never behaved that way in LK.
    I am quite sure that it works at 75% for everybody standing in it. I know I used it a couple times on heroic Stoneguards explosions way back when and they barely tickled anyone standing in the AMZ.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    No, this is not a 75% absorb over the cap. Every single absorb is under the cap. The server lag allows it to be applied to multiple players if the ability hits them at the same time, thus exceeding the cap.

    edit: but it appears it can go over the cap even on a single absorb, just tested it. it's weird, because it never behaved that way in LK.
    I believe it was changed in cataclysm and has been 75% first ever since.
    why it was extremely good on ragnaros, majordomo, madness

  5. #45
    AMZ has a niche; this is a good thing. It's neither useless, nor mandatory, it has some situations where it brings a valuable asset to your raid, some times when it's almost useless, and other times when it IS useless.
    It fits in very well for the intended design of talents, eg real choices, where there is no right answer.

  6. #46
    On all 12 bosses I only found 1 situation where it isn't close to useless, and thats on Static Shock during the transition phase on Lei Shen (25m)

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Mendenbarr View Post
    AMZ has a niche; this is a good thing. It's neither useless, nor mandatory, it has some situations where it brings a valuable asset to your raid, some times when it's almost useless, and other times when it IS useless.
    It fits in very well for the intended design of talents, eg real choices, where there is no right answer.
    And with these comments, DKs will simply end up dying in competitive environments because rogues and warriors are ALWAYS a better choice in any given situation..
    It's NOT right that DKs have no way to improve a raid's survivability by providing something useful like a raid CD or a healing assist.

    Make AMZ a BASELINE ability because it's a fucking key spell to this class and deserves to be more represented. Make it a percentage-based damage reduction, just like PW: Barrier and Smoke Bomb but for MAGIC. Then add another Tier2 talent in its stead.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Djouga View Post
    It's NOT right that DKs have no way to improve a raid's survivability by providing something useful like a raid CD or a healing assist.
    There are plenty of specs that lack a raid cooldown and most of them are doing just fine.

    Anti magic zone is not an essential part of our class, I'd love to see it made useful in more situations but I'd be happy with some better personal survivability.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiira View Post
    There are plenty of specs that lack a raid cooldown and most of them are doing just fine.

    Anti magic zone is not an essential part of our class, I'd love to see it made useful in more situations but I'd be happy with some better personal survivability.
    What about tank utility though ?

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  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiira View Post
    There are plenty of specs that lack a raid cooldown and most of them are doing just fine.

    Anti magic zone is not an essential part of our class, I'd love to see it made useful in more situations but I'd be happy with some better personal survivability.
    The only spec I can think of off the top of my head that doesn't "bring anything" to the raid is mages. But they have mage tables and ports plus a crit buff so they are ok. We have a attack speed/attack power. Every other class has some sort of raid utility, whether it's a lock with healthstones or summoning stone or druid with tranq or rogue with smoke bomb or warrior with his shout and banner or even a hunter bringing potentially 5 different buffs to raid, including bloodlust, they all have something that we do not. I really feel that making AMZ into a viable raid cooldown would definitely be beneficial

  11. #51
    What about making it work like a AoE AMS?
    AMS gives runic power per dmg absorbed, so it would be a great resource CD...
    For ppl who stand in it, gets resource regen based on magic absorbed.

    Would make total sense for 10% absorbed for 5 secs (example), and part of that 10% is modified into the character's resource type (mana, rage, energy, runic power, focus)


    Really OP, but with some scaling I think it could work great.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Asheriah View Post
    What about tank utility though ?
    What about it? Plenty of specs lack that as well.

    We can't all be warriors or paladins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shenanigasm View Post
    The only spec I can think of off the top of my head that doesn't "bring anything" to the raid is mages.
    You're very quick to forget how good our utility was in t14.
    Last edited by Shiira; 2013-03-22 at 06:10 PM.

  13. #53
    It is op on things that is slow hitting , is magic dmg and hit hard as a mf. Aka majordomo cleave for instance. All talents are situational, u can't expect it to be used in every boss fight, that's why u have a choice of 3 in each tier. I think it serves it's purpose just fine as it is atm.
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  14. #54
    I feel like it's fine as a "weak" raid cooldown. Some things can have a small, but useful effect and still have their place in the game.
    More importantly though, if AMZ was buffed to be a strong raid cooldown it'd also require making it baseline (mandatory talent choices aren't fun), or buffing and rebalancing the other two abilities on the tier to compete.

    I like AMZ in its current incarnation. It's nice to be able to throw it down to lend a helping hand from time to time without stressing too much about whether you're using your one big cooldown at the most optimal moment in the fight.

  15. #55
    AMZ has been amazing in some situations but garbage in others. I like the aspect of being able to absorb a good bit of damage from a single attack (static shock during Lei Shen's transitions, allowing me to 2 man a quadrant with ease) but then absolutely suck for periods of sustained magic damage.

  16. #56
    The problem with AMZ is that it is toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo situational (extremely high burst aoe spell damage) and especially for blood , who really lack some sort of raid utility and could use something like that, it means sacrificing decent survivability cds.
    It's also much better in 25m than in 10m /:
    Last edited by Nillo; 2013-03-22 at 06:28 PM.
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  17. #57
    AMZ is fine, you just need to know how you to use it and what fights it's good for. Blizzard have said they are happy if some talents are better for some fights than others, and I agree with that. Why the hell would you want a talent that is always the best option? That's just boring shit.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-23 at 02:40 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    It's also much better in 25m than in 10m /:
    No it isn't. It absorbs more sure, but that doesn't make it better, that's just because there are more people. Are you going to say devotion aura is better in 25 man because it reduces more damage?

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