1. #1

    holy 4 set time to break?

    So when is a good time to move out of last tier 4 set,

  2. #2
    When the stats of the new gear that drops outweighs the set bonus of the old tier?

    Just look at what you have now, check the difference in stats, and ask yourself it is worth to break the set bonus for it.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Just look at what you have now, check the difference in stats, and ask yourself it is worth to break the set bonus for it.
    Lol. Simply looking at the stats is not going to reveal the answer when comparing to a set bonus, which isn't easily compared to stats.

  4. #4
    Lol. Simply looking at the stats is not going to reveal the answer when comparing to a set bonus, which isn't easily compared to stats.
    Meditate over it ^^, or check if there are sims of the set boni

  5. #5
    Our holy pally is in love with the T14 4-piece and refuses to break it until he gets 4-piece T15. We've been funneling him (and our priest) the tier pieces so he should get it relatively soon, but I would think 2-piece T15 + 522 off-set piece would be enough to convince me to break my 4-piece.

    Absolutely no math in that decision, just what I would feel comfortable with.
    Last edited by pld; 2013-03-21 at 02:55 PM.

  6. #6
    Pandaren Monk Spacebubble's Avatar
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    Probably won't break it until I can replace every item with heroic pieces. and I'm even using 2 pieces LFR t14.

  7. #7
    Mechagnome Yzyz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacebot View Post
    Probably won't break it until I can replace every item with heroic pieces. and I'm even using 2 pieces LFR t14.
    Yikes, I would think you would be losing a ton of stats refusing to give up a bonus with LFR pieces. Even the offspec pieces would blow those LFR tier pieces out of the water. I'm waiting for t15N 4 piece before I break mine. I will miss this bonus dearly but 2s off HS can't last forever and eventually the stat gains will overpower it.
    Last edited by Yzyz; 2013-03-22 at 04:54 PM.

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  8. #8
    The Lightbringer Simulacrum's Avatar
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    The T14 4p is very strong - it really changes the way that I play for the better - while the T15 bonuses are kind of meh. Very rarely do I feel like I (in 10m) need my beacon target to receive more healing than it already does through the beacon; just slapping it on a tank is usually enough that, in addition to an EF here or there, that guy doesn't even need to be directly healed anymore (at least for fights with consistent raid-wide damage, which is most of them).

    I dubt that the T15 4p is going to change that - I have not had a tank with beacon on it die on me in months (outside of wipes-in-progress) - so when I look at the T15 4p I can't help but see a bonus that will just contribute to beacon overhealing more than it already does, while when I look at the T14 4p I see a very strong bonus.

    I will probably change when I have 4 pieces, just for the ilvl differences, and because I'll have to break the T14 4p some day anyway so I might as well start getting used it it, but it'll be a sad day when I do.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by paulleedot View Post
    Our holy pally is in love with the T14 4-piece and refuses to break it until he gets 4-piece T15. We've been funneling him (and our priest) the tier pieces so he should get it relatively soon, but I would think 2-piece T15 + 522 off-set piece would be enough to convince me to break my 4-piece.

    Absolutely no math in that decision, just what I would feel comfortable with.
    Not surprising he loves it. The tier 14 set is powerful for us in a lot of ways that aren't obvious. 4 second holy shocks has the obvious advantage of more frequent access to a powerful instant heal and generating more holy power. It also allows us to be more mobile. Assuming we're always casting a healing spell (which isn't far off reality), every time we have to stop moving and cast is reducing mobility. On something like horridon, that can be a big issue if adds are chasing us or if we have to move to get range on players.

    On top of that, and this is the one most people don't see, HS procs Infusion of Light, allowing us to speed-cast our more powerful DL and HR. Also, the shorter HS cooldown works well with timing when we're trying to burst out AoE healing with HS/HR/LoD. HS to generate 1 HP, HR (which might be an infusion proc cast), Light of Dawn, and HS is ready right away for another round, allowing you to get full use out of daybreak procs rather than wasting one by having to weave 2 HR's between shocks.

    At the end though, it kind of depends on the fight for me. Working on Megaera now and I would really love to run double 2-set for that for the reduced radiance cost on top of bonus daybreak healing. On the other side though, for something like horridon or tortos where the targets are more spread out and I frequently want to EF blanket or shoot a quick instant heal into someone, 4 second holy shock is going to be hard to give up. Maybe at that point I'll just have to go back to CS weaving for more holy power or something.

  10. #10
    I broke my 4 set with 2 thunderforged items, 1 normal item and 1 old raid item. Going from ilvl 508 to ilvl 515, 2k spirit and 1k int is just too many stats to give up on. I also lost some mastery (800) but gained haste and crit.

    I could be using the new 2 set but that would make me lose another 1k mastery and some spirit so I dont think that is worth it. If you have ilvl 517 T14 pieces I would first break it with a full heroic set.

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Simulacrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurzior View Post
    Not surprising he loves it. The tier 14 set is powerful for us in a lot of ways that aren't obvious.

    ...

    Working on Megaera now and I would really love to run double 2-set for that for the reduced radiance cost on top of bonus daybreak healing.
    Its power is even more nebulous than you are aware, it seems? Because what you suggest doesn't make a lot of sense.

    Going from 4 seconds to 6 seconds on HS is a reduction of 50% healing done to that ability, which is what daybreak's healing scales off of... so saying that you'd "really love" to decreas your daybreak's healing by 50% so that you can increase your daybreak's healing by 50% is... well. Nevermind the lost healing and mana efficiency from having to replace holy shock casts with holy radiance casts.

  12. #12
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yzyz View Post
    Yikes, I would think you would be losing a ton of stats refusing to give up a bonus with LFR pieces. Even the offspec pieces would blow those LFR tier pieces out of the water. I'm waiting for t15N 4 piece before I break mine. I will miss this bonus dearly but 1s off HS can't last forever and eventually the stat gains will overpower it.
    2 seconds off holy shock.

    I will probably do the same. Switch when I have 4-piece normal+.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Cattlehunter View Post
    Its power is even more nebulous than you are aware, it seems? Because what you suggest doesn't make a lot of sense.

    Going from 4 seconds to 6 seconds on HS is a reduction of 50% healing done to that ability, which is what daybreak's healing scales off of... so saying that you'd "really love" to decreas your daybreak's healing by 50% so that you can increase your daybreak's healing by 50% is... well. Nevermind the lost healing and mana efficiency from having to replace holy shock casts with holy radiance casts.
    I worded my first post poorly perhaps, but you're not interpretting the math correctly. Yes, daybreak does scale directly off of HS healing, and if you use HS less, you will use daybreak less, but in terms of sheer HPS during situations where daybreak is most useful (i.e. megaera rampages), it's not about how often you use daybreak, it's about how much it does when it is used.

    You're interpretting the lost HS casts as a dead loss in healing. That's not the case at all. Instead of being a dead loss, you now cast an extra HR, followed by a more powerful daybreak. While you lose total daybreak casts, you replace 1 every cycle with an extra HR allowing you to do more hps in AoE situations, so you become more healing efficient, not less. Mana is another story, but now you're getting into the issue of which is more important, mana efficiency or healing, which depends entirely on the amount of damage going out whether your group can survive you using a rotation that is ultimately doing less healing when said damage is happening.

  14. #14
    Pandaren Monk Spacebubble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yzyz View Post
    Yikes, I would think you would be losing a ton of stats refusing to give up a bonus with LFR pieces. Even the offspec pieces would blow those LFR tier pieces out of the water. I'm waiting for t15N 4 piece before I break mine. I will miss this bonus dearly but 1s off HS can't last forever and eventually the stat gains will overpower it.
    I'm already the worst geared healer in my guild by a mile, and while I'd love to have more stats, I'd rather keep keep my 4p because of how efficient it makes me. Not to mention there's plenty of other slots to upgrade for more stats

  15. #15
    The Patient Piitz's Avatar
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    I currently got 4p T14 where 2/4 piece are fully upgraded to 517 ilvl. But i'll prolly switch when I got full 4p T15 atleast normal with Lei Shen chest offset. Dont think its worth to downgrade to T15 LFR pieces since the stat loss will be to big.

  16. #16
    Blademaster Lithiyum's Avatar
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    I feel like the T14 set bonuses are very strong but blizzard went very passive with the T15 ones. The increase in daybreak healing by 50% could be beneficial however only on fights where stacking and aoe healing can be used such as the last phase in Iron Qon. The increase in transfer to beacon targets just makes it easier to passively heal tanks or whomever you have it on which in my opinion is cool because you can now use triage healing to passively healing the beacon target more effectively. In comparison though giving up the lower cd for holy shock sucks. The person who responded first was right though, break 4 set when the stats out weigh the stats on the new gear, you will be kicking yourself if you pass up the gear then realize you should have used it.

  17. #17
    The Lightbringer Simulacrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurzior View Post
    I worded my first post poorly perhaps, but you're not interpretting the math correctly. Yes, daybreak does scale directly off of HS healing, and if you use HS less, you will use daybreak less, but in terms of sheer HPS during situations where daybreak is most useful (i.e. megaera rampages), it's not about how often you use daybreak, it's about how much it does when it is used.

    You're interpretting the lost HS casts as a dead loss in healing. That's not the case at all. Instead of being a dead loss, you now cast an extra HR, followed by a more powerful daybreak. While you lose total daybreak casts, you replace 1 every cycle with an extra HR allowing you to do more hps in AoE situations, so you become more healing efficient, not less. Mana is another story, but now you're getting into the issue of which is more important, mana efficiency or healing, which depends entirely on the amount of damage going out whether your group can survive you using a rotation that is ultimately doing less healing when said damage is happening.
    I wasn't interpreting it as a dead loss in healing, I was interpreting it as a HS+DB being more HPS than a HR, even on 6 targets, after factoring in the casting time and infusion of light procs.

    But! I paused to look at it in more depth, and figured that you're actually right. There seems to be a slight gain of some maybe 5-10k HPS (depending on factors, in my gear, without cooldowns), going from the T14 4P to double 2P. I guess the values of these spells that I had in my head were off by a bit, and that I was the one overestimating HS some, rather than you the one underestimating it.

    Still, I would not use double 2p for that fight. With light's hammer and EF, I'm doing some 200-300k hps during that phase (depending on cooldowns and overhealing), another 10k to that isn't significant enough to compensate for the loss of fewer holy shocks during every other part of the fight, and the significiant decreases to mana efficiency from having to replace extremely efficient holy shocks with holy lights (or god forbid, spells like DL, CS, or even HRs without exploiting the DB proc).

    But I concede that I was wrong about my assumption! In a zero-mana environment (like gara'jal) I would (now!) probably choose to use double 2p, but I don't think it will make much sense outside of those.
    Last edited by Simulacrum; 2013-03-23 at 03:05 AM.

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