togc or ulduar

[Xeraxis]

You're missing the point, which is this - rather than pushing an arbitrary UI button to magically make the fights harder, it was your actions in the instance and mid-fight itself which changed up the difficulty and the rewards. There was a REASON supplied in-game for the increased difficulty.

Immersion, son. Ulduar had it by the wagonload.

You're right because nothing immerses me into the world like seeing my character fight to save Azeroth but trying to make the fight as difficult as possible. Plus do you honestly believe that because you fought Mimiron by pressing a button in his lair the lore suddenly changes because you hadn't just clicked a button in your ui?

[galzar]

So people are wrong for having their own opinions? I personally did not like Ulduar I enjoyed the undead aspect of wrath, the necromancy. Ulduar in my opinion was one of the few raids I only did once when it was current.

Edit: This is directed at boblet, sorry guess I didnt hit the reply with quote button.

[Vanamman]

You're right because nothing immerses me into the world like seeing my character fight to save Azeroth but trying to make the fight as difficult as possible. Plus do you honestly believe that because you fought Mimiron by pressing a button in his lair the lore suddenly changes because you hadn't just clicked a button in your ui?

If you hold to this argument, than you are basically telling us that you hate every new raid that ever came out after TBC. Ulduar was easily the best raid this game has ever seen. It was immersive in all aspects and it was very well tuned difficulty wise. Lore-wise ICC and possibly BT win out over Ulduar, but Ulduar wins in every other aspect of a raid.

[Viradiance]

TOGC is one of those weird raids. Is it a shit raid because it was one room with no trash? Not entirely, because it had some utterly fantastic bosses. I never managed to not have fun on Beasts of Northrend or Jaraxxus, and Faction Champions is a fight that can be hugely different from week to week and was unpredictable.

Ulduar was better because on top of having a range of encounters from Hodir mundane to Yogg goddamn excellent, it had enough padding that it truely felt like the ruins of an ancient Titan city and was a gigantic tier in general. But I'm the last to jump on the TOGC hate bandwagon, it had some very entertaining fights for its time and despite the samey scenery, it was nice to have a raid you could very well expect to knock out in an hour.

[Sound911]

Loved both to be honest, ulduar was awesome, mysterious and the art was just top notch, loved it to bits.

HOWEVER.

I LOVED the faction loot in togc, when each faction looked so much different from the horde weps and gear looking bloodied and very orcish, to the alliance with their gleaming swords and crests. Beautiful gear, glad to see the return with the new season 2h axe

I voted for ulduar, just because it was a better raid in my opinion

[Howard Moon]

This thread:

"Hey guys, what's better? Eating cookie dough ice cream, or getting kicked in the balls?"

[Vanamman]

TOGC is one of those weird raids. Is it a shit raid because it was one room with no trash? Not entirely, because it had some utterly fantastic bosses. I never managed to not have fun on Beasts of Northrend or Jaraxxus, and Faction Champions is a fight that can be hugely different from week to week and was unpredictable.

Ulduar was better because on top of having a range of encounters from Hodir mundane to Yogg goddamn excellent, it had enough padding that it truely felt like the ruins of an ancient Titan city and was a gigantic tier in general. But I'm the last to jump on the TOGC hate bandwagon, it had some very entertaining fights for its time and despite the samey scenery, it was nice to have a raid you could very well expect to knock out in an hour.

I can definitely respect that though. I honestly did not care much for most of the fights in ToC. They were decent and innovative, but just weren't challenging enough for my taste. That, the one boss per week thing, and rehashing Anub'arak really pissed off a lot of people! I guess I just prefer larger raids with more difficult and varied encounters.

[Viradiance]

I can definitely respect that though. I honestly did not care much for most of the fights in ToC. They were decent and innovative, but just weren't challenging enough for my taste. That, the one boss per week thing, and rehashing Anub'arak really pissed off a lot of people! I guess I just prefer larger raids with more difficult and varied encounters.

I'm kinda curious what people have meant by rehashing Anub'arak. If they're referring to the encounter in Azjol'nerub, that's hardly a rehash. The fight was dramatically different, and the only similarity was the character itself. Would people have been so up in arms if it was the same boss in the same cavern but his name was Sharub'ajack?

It was a rehash in the sense that it was the conclusion of a chracter's storyline, but the fight had about as much in similar as, say, Illidan had with Leotharas.

[asharia]

opinions =/= fact

if he likes togc, then to him, it's the best.

[Nikkaszal]

I'm kinda curious what people have meant by rehashing Anub'arak. If they're referring to the encounter in Azjol'nerub, that's hardly a rehash. The fight was dramatically different, and the only similarity was the character itself. Would people have been so up in arms if it was the same boss in the same cavern but his name was Sharub'ajack?

It was a rehash in the sense that it was the conclusion of a chracter's storyline, but the fight had about as much in similar as, say, Illidan had with Leotharas.

Most of the ill feeling stems towards Anub's treatment through the whole expac. He was one of Arthas' most fearsome companions during TFT and deserved to be the Big Bad of a raid dedicated to him. Azjol, nerub eventually got shunted into being a tiny mini-zone with a few levelling dungeons, and it was the same situation as if you'd seen Kael'thas and Vashj as the end bosses of Mechanar and Steam Vaults respectively.

And so they pulled the whole Merely A Setback thing and shoved Anub'arak into a raid that otherwise had nothing at all to do with him, seemingly as an afterthought.

[dkdk]

First off people, ToC was the 5 man instance, the raid was ToGC. (sorry this just bothers me)

This is an unfair comparison. I am in the minority that enjoyed ToGC, but Ulduar is still the better raid. Not sure who would actually say that ToGC was better.

[Kazgrel]

Bit of Devil's Advocate here...

Faction Champions remains one of my favorite encounters, simply due to how it isn't always cut-and-dry. Possible different composition from week to week, not everything can be tanked and spanked, etc. I get strange looks/responses when I state this opinion to friends/guildies, and I expect the same here.

TOGC 10 man holds a special memory of WoW, when we got our first Tribute to Insanity; we had 2 different guild groups running it, and the group I was leading was behind by a boss. Both groups made it to Anub with no wipes. Lead group wiped; 2-3 minutes later, we dinged the insanity achievement with a rogue evasion tanking Anub and me having ankhed and dpsing...we were the only ones alive. I almost made people ears bleed by yelling in vent like a kid on Christmas or something.

All that said...Ulduar is by far and away my favorite raid, even though I fondly recall being burned out of it as TOC was nearing release. The atmosphere and lore for the place made it win. TOC as a whole...urgh. I remember thinking "Oh wow, a raid without trash? This will be awesome!". I lol every time I remember that.

[Deleted]

Bit of Devil's Advocate here...

I completely agree with you. I do by no means hate TOGC as so many other players did. It was an awesome raid for me and a lot of fun.

That said, Ulduar was still better in my opinion, but TOGC was far from a bad raid. Was very enjoyable, especially the insanity runs (and dedicated insanity lol, 49/50 3 weeks in a row on insanity burns eyes).

I remember the first week of TOGC, we one shot the first 3 boss having 50/50 left, then we wiped once on Twins for some stupid reason which I can't remember, if it was DC or whatever. "It is okay, we won't one shot Anub". Proceed to one-shot anub and only get Mad Skill. The rage ensued after having 49/50 with a stupid wipe on twins.

[Absintheminded]

First off people, ToC was the 5 man instance, the raid was ToGC. (sorry this just bothers me)

This is an unfair comparison. I am in the minority that enjoyed ToGC, but Ulduar is still the better raid. Not sure who would actually say that ToGC was better.

You're not entirely right. Trial of the Champion (ToC) was the 5 man dungeon. Trial of the Crusader (ToC 10/25) the raid, while Trial of the Grand Crusader (ToGC 10/25) was the heroic mode of the raid.

[vindicatorx]

I disliked both but of the 2 evils I would say Ulduar sucked less

[Keny]

Are you here for attention or what? I mean, you couldent possibly think TOTC which Is considered by many to be one of the worst and lowest quality raids of all times to Ulduar which Is considered by many to be the best.... close this thread will ya.

[dkdk]

You're not entirely right. Trial of the Champion (ToC) was the 5 man dungeon. Trial of the Crusader (ToC 10/25) the raid, while Trial of the Grand Crusader (ToGC 10/25) was the heroic mode of the raid.

Ahh you win, i guess the only one I really cared about was ToGC by the end.

[Obelisk Kai]

I'm just staggered someone out there thinks TOGC was good, let alone the equal of hallowed Ulduar.

[Daniwa]

Was totally sure it was another necro, suuuuuper dissapointed

[holycrapfour]

ulduar's hardmodes were this game's finest hour, hands down.

Bt comes a close second.

Togc is somewhere near the bottom with gruul's lair and ruby sanctum.

dont u dare lump gruul's lair in with ruby sanctum and togc