Double Death Grip

[Bakis]

i think its ok, on my hunter DK is probably one of the easiest melee to kite around, maybe im just facing bad DKs but they have never really given me a problem.

Dont worry, this thread is just part of Shamans frustration of their class. It has little to do with DG other than to blame something.

[Deleted]

As a healer PoV, DKs have by far most uptime on target versus any other melee. Yes hes screwed if you manage to LoS him, which is hard with that supersnare they have.

[Charge me Doctor]

Im justifying it very much. If Shamans lack options to counter it now that is another issue.
Do you have a problem with warriors having multiple gap closer?
Do you have a problem with ferals having multiple gap closer?
Do you have a problem with rogues having multiple gap closer?

Do you have ANY idea how bad DK's would be if their 25s got countered. 25s of being kited around.
Only poor players think that 4-set is OP, rest of them understand what DK's would be without it.
The glyph isnt even used by any serious DK player.

---------- Post added 2013-03-21 at 06:01 PM ----------




Funny cos those are on the same tier so they cant have both.

Warrior can't do a shit against you if he is out of range (he can Charge two times in a row OR charge faster than usual) unless he picked a throw 3 sec stun on 30 second CD (which breaks his controllable burst due to lack of avatar). And he can slow you in melee (and slow everyone around him in 15 yrd range OR root you on 5 seconds if you are in 20yrd range and already slowed). And he can pick a safeguard for a gap-closer to a friendly target.

Rogue can enter Toss-mode and use one of movement increasing skills OR use new talent with 30 yrd range on ambush and shit (OPed shit currently, imo)

Feral have increased movement speed and slow-removal on 1 GCD cost, also awesome speed boost on long cd. Can choose a leap from talents. Can root/cyclone you when out of range.

DK can pick CC immunity (sleep charm fear) for 10 seconds on 2m CD. Can slow you on 30 yrd range (and root OR stun OR become resilient to movement speed reducing effects). And can pick either slow with stun on 5 second delay (8yrd range iirc), OR another grab, OR 10 second (8 yrd aoe zone) CC immunity everything (iirc) on 2 minute CD. Also, his green shit bubble stolen from warlocks spellstone is OPed as fuck i hate it.

As you can see, DKs kit is almost not limited by range. And the glyph is used by almost all DKs because it gives you instant win against anyone with shaman in their team.


Oh, and you know what's happens when a class with high burst damage but low uptime on target and low amount of gap-closers (i look at you, ret paladins) teams up with DK who has so much control over 1 target? Instant 2k+ rating happens.

With this set you HAVE to wait for 3 seconds after a grip (so you won't be grabbed again). But you lose 1 thing, DK don't grip you for lulz, he grips you to secure a kill (i mean, you start taking damage not only from him, but from his teammates), which makes 3 DD comps much deadlier

[Bakis]

Warrior can't do a shit against you if he is out of range (he can Charge two times in a row OR charge faster than usual) unless he picked a throw 3 sec stun on 30 second CD (which breaks his controllable burst due to lack of avatar). And he can slow you in melee (and slow everyone around him in 15 yrd range OR root you on 5 seconds if you are in 20yrd range and already slowed). And he can pick a safeguard for a gap-closer to a friendly target.

Rogue can enter Toss-mode and use one of movement increasing skills OR use new talent with 30 yrd range on ambush and shit (OPed shit currently, imo)

Feral have increased movement speed and slow-removal on 1 GCD cost, also awesome speed boost on long cd. Can choose a leap from talents. Can root/cyclone you when out of range.

DK can pick CC immunity (sleep charm fear) for 10 seconds on 2m CD. Can slow you on 30 yrd range (and root OR stun OR become resilient to movement speed reducing effects). And can pick either slow with stun on 5 second delay (8yrd range iirc), OR another grab, OR 10 second (8 yrd aoe zone) CC immunity everything (iirc) on 2 minute CD. Also, his green shit bubble stolen from warlocks spellstone is OPed as fuck i hate it.

As you can see, DKs kit is almost not limited by range. And the glyph is used by almost all DKs because it gives you instant win against anyone with shaman in their team.


Oh, and you know what's happens when a class with high burst damage but low uptime on target and low amount of gap-closers (i look at you, ret paladins) teams up with DK who has so much control over 1 target? Instant 2k+ rating happens.

With this set you HAVE to wait for 3 seconds after a grip (so you won't be grabbed again). But you lose 1 thing, DK don't grip you for lulz, he grips you to secure a kill (i mean, you start taking damage not only from him, but from his teammates), which makes 3 DD comps much deadlier

I've seen so many remarks (hi shamans) about DG that I dont really care any more.
Why dont I care? Cos it still has nothing to do with DG.
One could bring up issues about grounding totem, DK cd's being chained or whatever.
What every freaking muppet forget is still that DG correlates to our uptime.
You bring up immunites, fine. Should I bring up intimidation, disengage root, silencsing shot, disoritenting shot as well?

My point is still, there might or might not be some issues with DK's just like any other class. Does that mean we should zoom in on one ability that is pivotal (most ppl agree on this) to DK damage and proclaim it as OP or look at the complete packet?
In my book ppl QQ'ing about DG are clueless, not stupid just clueless. Lets presume I as a melee spec has to close a gap. I DG and encounter the pletora of counters, teleport, disengage, blink, fear etc etc. So, I shall wait for 25s getting killed?

If DK's are unbalanced and some may very well think so (unlike Devs and representation of performace) how come there is some urgent need to gut them useless?
Our disease as UH rape your team, or our Howling Blasts as Frost? Ranged damage is a large part of our damage, is it large enough to score a kill? Never.

[Charge me Doctor]

The problem with DKs is not only DG, it's their uptime on target and inability to peel them off you teammate. If you can nova/disarm a warrior so your healer can get a 1-2 cast off, that's OK, but if you nova/disarm a DK? He will strangulate/DG/assist with beat him with HB/coils/whatever. They look like empowered version of enh shaman (you can ruin his damage by either silence or disarm) but with actual resource being able to expire.

Personally, i would like to see silence to stop runes getting off CDs. Or at least half the speed of their regeneration, because even if you lock DK in nova+silence (or just silence), they have burst ready to unleash and you don't change anything

[Bakis]

Warriors can break roots multiple times. He can still charge, intercept, fear(Gnaw but 1 target), use utility just as a DK.
A DK can grip, strang, do mediocre damage from range but not break the root or snare. I dont see how it is any different.
And we can go through the same disection with rouges and ferals too.

So what is the problem with DK's doing mediocre damage or utility from roots and snares of which they cant get out from outside lenghty talented cd's?

Do you or do you not see a huge dominance in high rated PvP made up by DK players?
I dont, I'm far from up there myself. I'm still in the bracket of Who-play-the-most-noskill-cleave-wins bracket.
That however, does not make me rant about the only gap closer a melee dps class got in PvP as being OP.
Especially when statistics show that as untrue.

[matthias9742]

Just silence the DK so he cant use any of these abilities you people keep whining about. Seriously a silence locks out all a DKs utility, defensives, and gap closers.

[Bakis]

Just silence the DK so he cant use any of these abilities you people keep whining about. Seriously a silence locks out all a DKs utility, defensives, and gap closers.

Shh dont tell them secrets, they are busy dueling DK's 1v1.

[Magally]

You sound like a good player with a lot of experience. No wait, you don't.

The counter argument skills of a 12 year on the playground, impressive.

Funny how your supposed experience has lead you into claiming multiple impossible situations regarding talents. You're just another drop in the ocean of Shaman who cry over everything and can't even be assed to understand any of the bullshit they're spewing.

Want to reiterate about us having Chillbains and Asphyxiate, again?

[Hammerschlag]

It's dumb as all hell from a shaman PoV. You pull out some sick skill move and ground the DG but nono Mr. Hero class dun care he'll just DG u again!

HAHA You made me happy!

[chairmanmao]

dk skillclass, nothing more, as an ele shaman i might as well try solo lei shen, i last longer than vs a dk, i also free cast so much more vs lei shen until i'm 1 shot.

Seriously, at least in cata I had a small chance if I outplayed him and grounded grip. Now it's pointless.

[Bakis]

Seriously, at least in cata I had a small chance if I outplayed him and grounded grip. Now it's pointless.

In Cata you could bash your head against the keyboard a la arcane mage in a 5-man dungeon and get Gladiator as shaman. Always something isn't it?

Not that it matter, what matter is that a few outplayed 1v1 shamans in this thread got a crusade vs one ability which 4-set bonus punish one class and want it gutted so said class becomes unviable all together.
No high rated PvP player QQ about DG, judging from this thread it also turns out to be a 90% Shaman issue.
Now that might be true but then it ought to be about grounding totem getting consumed not about the only gap closer a melee class got (which is kinda unique?).

[Terahertz]

It's a bad change that promotes bad play, as easy as that. "What you froze your target and couldn't grip it? Don't worry now because you can grip twice!" "You are a successfull DK, but those nasty shamans keep grounding your grip? We might just have the solution for you!"

It's not about promoting bad play, it's about giving DK some extra utility.

Previously any class with a good gap closer would simply wait for you to DG you, and then use a gap closer/movement speed increaser to run away effectively rendering your DG useless.

It's the same like the pre-fix for Charge, where anyone and their mom could jump your charge, making the stun useless.

It's dumb as all hell from a shaman PoV. You pull out some sick skill move and ground the DG but nono Mr. Hero class dun care he'll just DG u again!

They should make it DG only double grips when you manage to death grip someone.

[Bakis]

Earthgrab Totem is serious bizz as a shaman, just saying.

[Lulbalance]

It's not about promoting bad play, it's about giving DK some extra utility.

Previously any class with a good gap closer would simply wait for you to DG you, and then use a gap closer/movement speed increaser to run away effectively rendering your DG useless.

pretty much countered your own point..

[Exeris]

Yes it is indeed powerful but I would argue that DKs always been weak vs kiting and they need DG in its current form since we dont have multiple gap closers like many other melee.

DG is fine, it it was anything I personally would like to change with DK's is their extmrely potent strength vs casters and weakness vs melee.
I play warlock mostly and I hate DK's then

Shouldn't they have given DK's a set bonus to address this instead of making the problem worse?

[Deleted]

Just silence the DK so he cant use any of these abilities you people keep whining about. Seriously a silence locks out all a DKs utility, defensives, and gap closers.

Not every class has a blanket silence.

The counter argument skills of a 12 year on the playground, impressive.

Funny how your supposed experience has lead you into claiming multiple impossible situations regarding talents. You're just another drop in the ocean of Shaman who cry over everything and can't even be assed to understand any of the bullshit they're spewing.

Want to reiterate about us having Chillbains and Asphyxiate, again?

Way to say a lot without actually saying anything that in any kind of way contributes to the discussion and just to top it all of you seem to be messing me up with someone else since I never said anything about Chillbains and Asphyxiate. But apparently you're not even able to distingush between the different people in this thread.

Earthgrab Totem is serious bizz as a shaman, just saying.

Yeah I'm sure the slow is totaly going to stop you, or are you refering to the roots whom can be dispelled easily and will be gone in an instant since hardly any DK is playing without a healer?

[Terahertz]

pretty much countered your own point..

Not so much. Every DK would have their grip countered by anyone before double grip. Especially in MoP with more ways of getting away from your target (see mage blazing speed, hunter disengage root, warrior simply intervening/double charging, druid powershifting).

If there was no double death grip, DKs would have an EXTREMELY hard time keeping people near them. They'd have to give DKs a different way of moving around/keeping people near them.

[Terahertz]

Wait, how does double grip help you there, except vs bad players that grip into grounding? Anyone that isn't mentally challenged will just wait 3 sec anyway?

True, but it's still 3 additional seconds you'll have uptime on your target

[Charge me Doctor]

And i can't wait for the DG+Leap of faith+DG again into a 3v1.