How are DPS DKs Gemming?

[Puddingcess]

I'm looking for more information on how all specs of DPS for DKs should be gemming. Mr. Robot says I should be gemming for haste or mastery when it comes to 2H frost and DW frost, have not looked at unholy yet. Looking at other sources of information like EJ, they say it should still be gemming for strength completely. Which way is the best, do gear levels matter?

[Wiizper]

I gem mostly strength. For all specs.

[Hilo]

with many simulations in BiS gear Haste (2H) and Mastery (DW) win out over strength when played perfectly. For the average player who makes a mistake here and there Strength will always be better to gem.

RED - 160 Strength
YELLOW - 80 Strength/160 Haste (2H), 80 Strength/160 Mastery (DW)
BLUE - 80 Strength/160 Hit or ignore if bonus is not worth it to you. (I'm a socket bonus whore)

Hope this helps a little.

[Puddingcess]

Thank you Hilo and Wiizper. This helps out a lot!

[Noxina]

with many simulations in BiS gear Haste (2H) and Mastery (DW) win out over strength when played perfectly. For the average player who makes a mistake here and there Strength will always be better to gem.

RED - 160 Strength
YELLOW - 80 Strength/160 Haste (2H), 80 Strength/160 Mastery (DW)
BLUE - 80 Strength/160 Hit or ignore if bonus is not worth it to you. (I'm a socket bonus whore)

Hope this helps a little.

Yeah I second this, wasnt easy to find a good answere about it though. Cant remember where I eventually found it (Think I plotted in numbers my self in askmrrobot), and ended up with this. But going full Str should work just fine aswell

[Tojara]

2H frost I use to hit worthwhile socket bonuses. Strength in red, haste/strength in yellow and strength/hit in blue.

As of now I am pretty much pure strength gemming. Why? One I feel pretty comfortable around 10k haste not having any empty globals. ToT is swimming in ample opportunities to abuse AMS and it's pretty much a reset on runes as well on pretty much all the encounters.

I can't really gem strength/hit in my blue sockets anymore at the moment because I am swimming in hit. Some of the socket bonuses are worth nailing too, like the tier chest has 180 strength as a socket bonus, which makes little sense to ignore.

[Puddingcess]

2H frost I use to hit worthwhile socket bonuses. Strength in red, haste/strength in yellow and strength/hit in blue.

As of now I am pretty much pure strength gemming. Why? One I feel pretty comfortable around 10k haste not having any empty globals. ToT is swimming in ample opportunities to abuse AMS and it's pretty much a reset on runes as well on pretty much all the encounters.

I can't really gem strength/hit in my blue sockets anymore at the moment because I am swimming in hit. Some of the socket bonuses are worth nailing too, like the tier chest has 180 strength as a socket bonus, which makes little sense to ignore.

What are you doing with Socket bonuses that don't seem worth while?

[Hilo]

What are you doing with Socket bonuses that don't seem worth while?

If you aren't going to gem for the socket bonus, you would want to put a 160 strength gem in that slot.

[Puddingcess]

If you aren't going to gem for the socket bonus, you would want to put a 160 strength gem in that slot.

That was my assumption, but I thought I would ask anyways. Thanks!

[Deleted]

I actually tried full haste gemming (pre 5.2) as simming showed a fairly substantial increase for switching from full str to full haste and on a good number of fights my dps dropped due to downtime spent running around (zor'lok platforms, wind lord being invis etc) so I was rune capped but hitting a lot less hard. I went back to str stacking and have never looked back since.

[Deathhowwl]

it directly goes off of how much haste you have passive on your gear, because their makes a breaking point where strength is stronger personally ive seen this around 7500+ then you can start gemming full haste, knowing you can appropriate your rotation properly, but never stop reforging haste.

[Deleted]

it directly goes off of how much haste you have passive on your gear, because their makes a breaking point where strength is stronger personally ive seen this around 7500+ then you can start gemming full haste, knowing you can appropriate your rotation properly, but never stop reforging haste.

Not sure about this, not saying you're wrong... I have found it's a fairly minimal increase when simming strength vs haste gems on patchwerk or even light movement fights. The problem isn't a "breakpoint" as, technically you're not going hit some sort of GCD cap for haste in sims/game any time soon, the problem is that:

1.) Movement/downtime
2.) AMS absorbs
3.) AOE/cleave

All devalue haste due to favouring strength.

EDIT - looking at it now I think you likely meant to write "then you can start gemming full strength" so, yes... I agree xD

[Deleted]

The top secondary stat for DW frost is still mastery in 5.2? I ask this because according to Noxxic its haste.

[Omertocracy]

The top secondary stat for DW frost is still mastery in 5.2? I ask this because according to Noxxic its haste.

Noxxic has been horrible as long as I've seen it. It gives no reasons for its priorities, nor their specific weights. It has been outright wrong on over half of the things I looked up. I do not suggest using Noxxic without a secondary source corroborating what it says.

[Noxina]

Noxxic has been horrible as long as I've seen it. It gives no reasons for its priorities, nor their specific weights. It has been outright wrong on over half of the things I looked up. I do not suggest using Noxxic without a secondary source corroborating what it says.

Noxxic is good enough when you plot in stat priorities your self. But never trust what is set from before..

[Kogoes]

So just so we're clear. Can anyone get a decisive answer as to what would be best to gem for? Because as it stands I'm stacking haste wherever I can because I blindly follow Ask Mr Robot in spite of some of its past issues. I can't help but think that switching to more strength may be the better answer.

[Deleted]

There is no definitive answer because there isn't definitive proof. I have had better results with str than haste as 2h frost and str is much better than haste as unh provided you have enough haste from gear.

Ask Mr Robot is good in a lot of ways but the value of haste is skewed for the default stats. Blindly following anything anyone says without proof or confirming opinions/maths is never the way to go.

[Deleted]

Noxxic is good enough when you plot in stat priorities your self. But never trust what is set from before..

You mean Askmrrobot?

So just so we're clear. Can anyone get a decisive answer as to what would be best to gem for? Because as it stands I'm stacking haste wherever I can because I blindly follow Ask Mr Robot in spite of some of its past issues. I can't help but think that switching to more strength may be the better answer.

Gem strength, haste is never been a solid option.

[Deleted]

So just so we're clear. Can anyone get a decisive answer as to what would be best to gem for? Because as it stands I'm stacking haste wherever I can because I blindly follow Ask Mr Robot in spite of some of its past issues. I can't help but think that switching to more strength may be the better answer.

As others on this page have said, gem for strength... It has the most overall benefit in most fights when you take any sort of movement/downtime, aoe/cleave into account and leaves a bit more room for error with 2H frost rather than gemming for full haste. Unnholy and DW ALWAYS benefit more from gemming for strength rather than a secondary stat. The only spec that causes some confusion is 2H frost which, in some specific situations (no downtime, or "patchwerk", no AMS absorbing, no cleave or AOE) will benefit more from gemming pure haste. Those types of encounter don't really exist any more hence:

2H frost + Unholy:

Blue Socket - Etched Imperial Amethyst - str/hit
Yellow Socket - Fierce Vermilion Onyx - str/haste
Red Socket - Bold Primordial Ruby - str

DW frost:

Blue Socket - Etched Imperial Amethyst - str/hit
Yellow Socket - Skilful Vermilion Onyx - str/mastery
Red Socket - Bold Primordial Ruby - str

Doesn't matter what ilvl you are, the above will generally give you the best results in actual encounters.

[Noxina]

You mean Askmrrobot?

Ahh yeah ofc.. :P