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  1. #221
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Do you know where deregulation and a lack of any kind of government oversight of business, and in essence, a free market lead? Just where I said it does. I know most Libertarians don't know this, but when you look at historical examples and think through what happens, this is what you get.
    It leads to monopolies: i.e. an economy just as controlled as a socialist one, save that the controllers are accountable to shareholders and not society in the manner of a government.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  2. #222
    The Lightbringer Mandible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigzoman20 View Post
    Banning large sodas won't address obesity.

    More accessibility to healthy foods and increased awareness will combat obesity. Just my 2 cents.

    I think he was just ridiculing the notion.
    No, but people will think twice about buying two.
    "Only Jack can zip up."
    The word you want to use is "have" not "of".
    You may have alot of stuff in your country, but we got Lolland.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Wafffles View Post
    You can't 'jump to the ending' to justify your arguments. Do we live in a utopia? Nope, because every single form of government in the history of mankind has been flawed. That doesn't mean you can skim through history, pick out the most egregious misapplication of a set of principles, and claim it will always end up that way no matter what. Otherwise, you can argue communism will always lead to a Great Purge, libertarians will always lead the country back to the Robber Barons, and we should all just live in separate caves and never interract with other human beings. Of course, if we act under the reasonable assumption that we're gonna have to put up with one of these imperfect governments sooner or later, might as well be one that doesn't pass a law, say, banning large sodas.
    Flip that around then -- we have history to show us what happened the last time the economy was ran that way. What information can you point to to show that those same things won't just happen again? Other than "Welp. We should try it again, maybe it won't happen exactly the same way again."

    Especially after you see exactly what big business has done since Hayak-style deregulation began in the 1970s:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pr..._1947-2009.png

    Increased earnings has mostly came out of milking profits out of labor, instead of properly compensating themselves for the increased productivity.

    Heck, the current economic collapse came to a head due to deregulation of the market. Lack of oversight, etc.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by breadisfunny View Post
    so you would rather we switch governments so you can have the freedom to.....sip a large soda? you can already do that in 99% of the cities in america i dont see what your getting at with that last example?
    I don't want to switch governments at all, I was just pointing out that every government always has a wacko with a radical vision. Libertarians don't want 100% deregulation to the point where we're all making $1.50 an hour while a handful are absurdly rich, or something; at best, that's the radical vision of their particular wackos who yell loud enough to be heard by the media. Believe it or not, there's something between a vast federal government with it's nose in every single aspect of American life, and the complete abolition of the US federal government. That goes for everyone and all political systems/beliefs, not just libertarians or those who oppose libertarians.

  5. #225
    Scarab Lord breadisfunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wafffles View Post
    I don't want to switch governments at all, I was just pointing out that every government always has a wacko with a radical vision. Libertarians don't want 100% deregulation to the point where we're all making $1.50 an hour while a handful are absurdly rich, or something; at best, that's the radical vision of their particular wackos who yell loud enough to be heard by the media. Believe it or not, there's something between a vast federal government with it's nose in every single aspect of American life, and the complete abolition of the US federal government. That goes for everyone and all political systems/beliefs, not just libertarians or those who oppose libertarians.
    okay wasnt sure what your were advocating there. i personally think some of the laws being passed right now in new york city are silly. all those laws that one guy is trying to pass banning this and that. can't remember his name he was on the daily show.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by stellvia View Post
    Flip that around then -- we have history to show us what happened the last time the economy was ran that way. What information can you point to to show that those same things won't just happen again? Other than "Welp. We should try it again, maybe it won't happen exactly the same way again."

    Especially after you see exactly what big business has done since Hayak-style deregulation began in the 1970s:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pr..._1947-2009.png

    Increased earnings has mostly came out of milking profits out of labor, instead of properly compensating themselves for the increased productivity.

    Heck, the current economic collapse came to a head due to deregulation of the market. Lack of oversight, etc.
    My attempt to defend my original point is going astray: I agree with you entirely, and I oppose a completely free-reigned economy. My original point was simply that the libertarians cannot be distilled into Robber Baron idolaters.

  7. #227
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wafffles View Post
    My attempt to defend my original point is going astray: I agree with you entirely, and I oppose a completely free-reigned economy. My original point was simply that the libertarians cannot be distilled into Robber Baron idolaters.
    When they complain that the -present- situation is too much regulation, I daresay you can.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  8. #228
    Legendary! THE Bigzoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandible View Post
    No, but people will think twice about buying two.
    People that want more soda will just get a refill or buy more in bulk.

    Businesses would simply just sell more in bulk if there was a demand for more as a result of there being less per serving.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    When they complain that the -present- situation is too much regulation, I daresay you can.
    Gary Johnson campaigned as the libertarian presidential candidate, so I'd say he's a decent example of a real libertarian's positions. He believes in a free economy; he also supports unions, environmentalism and the EPA, and opposes any changes to entitlement programs that would alienate or remove current beneficiaries. Does that sound like someone who wants to see people starving on the streets?

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