1. #1

    So Much Haste right now

    I've seen some people suggesting to reforge to Mastery once a certain Haste breakpoint has been reached, I've seen other arguments countering to continue to stack Haste regardless. Anyone have any factual date/experience with this since 5.2?

  2. #2
    What spec are you talking about?
    Sha of *Gay* Pride!

  3. #3
    Stood in the Fire Paq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milamber View Post
    What spec are you talking about?
    Judging by their armory, they are on about frost.

  4. #4
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Well, you'd go for Crit before Mastery. 28% Crit is above Mastery. Once you have both Haste and Crit capped, THEN you get Mastery.

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  5. #5
    Sorry I should have clarified, Fire Mage with 505 item level. Current Trinkets are Relic of Yulon 2/2 and LoTc

  6. #6
    Aren't you reforging everything to crit? How do you have enough stat points left to worry about haste vs mastery?

    Edit: I just had a look at your armory. Are you gemming/reforging half in favour of frost, and half for fire? If you're playing fire as your main spec, then those purple gems ought to be green 160 crit + 160 hit gems and your yellow/prismatic sockets ought to be yellow 360 crit gems. Further, your LotC should really be reforged to crit!

    In answer to your original question, as fire I put everything into crit and whatever's leftover (not much) gets me to my haste cap for the next combustion tick.
    Last edited by katmage; 2013-03-22 at 09:49 PM.

  7. #7
    Everything is going into crit, I was miles over hit cap, therefore gemming for hit is asanine.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-22 at 11:32 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by katmage View Post
    In answer to your original question, as fire I put everything into crit and whatever's leftover (not much) gets me to my haste cap for the next combustion tick.
    What do u suggest should be the current cap as of 5.2

  8. #8
    Well, you want hit cap, and as much crit as possible. As far as gemming is concerned, you want to gem FIRST accordingly, then enchants accordingly(gloves should be haste if you're hit heavy unforged.) THEN you want to reforge, go for as much crit, and outside of that, get as much haste as you can, if there is crit mastery piece for example, reforge that mastery into haste. Why? Combustion isn't a huge part of our dps anymore. But, more haste, affects Fireball's cast time, NT ticks, Combustion ticks, and is always a better choice than poo mastery.
    Last edited by KoolKidKaos; 2013-03-23 at 08:12 PM.

  9. #9
    haste comes out way ahead of mastery in the sims I have run, if u have to choose a stat after crit
    Last edited by Plink-; 2013-03-23 at 08:27 PM.

  10. #10
    Looks like I will leave the excess haste as I've been then, I kept seeing more and more people all of a sudden going into mastery after a certain combustion/haste breakpoint but I'm going to roll with what's been working and the consensus of this thread, <3 Haste

  11. #11
    The Patient elpadrino293's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoolKidKaos View Post
    Well, you want hit cap, and as much crit as possible. As far as gemming is concerned, you want to gem FIRST accordingly, then enchants accordingly(gloves should be haste if you're hit heavy unforged.) THEN you want to reforge, go for as much crit, and outside of that, get as much haste as you can, if there is crit mastery piece for example, reforge that mastery into haste. Why? Combustion isn't a huge part of our dps anymore. But, more haste, affects Fireball's cast time, NT ticks, Combustion ticks, and is always a better choice than poo mastery.
    mastery will effect your ignite value as well, and ignite damge + combustion damage should be ~20% of your total damage. the effect of haste on fireball's cast time is negligible, speaking less than 0.02 seconds off the cast time for 1% haste. and you need roughly 2k worth of haste rating, going from ~3k to ~5k for additional ticks of NT and/or Combustion, which would take off about 0.1 seconds on your fireball's cast time. in the end, mastery & haste are pretty close in terms of damage output, which is why you see such variations in reforges and opinions. but in my opinion, the top parses on WoL come from great combustions, not slightly faster fireballs or NT ticks, which is why i favor mastery after cap.
    Last edited by elpadrino293; 2013-03-24 at 07:58 AM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by elpadrino293 View Post
    mastery will effect your ignite value as well, and ignite damge + combustion damage should be ~20% of your total damage. the effect of haste on fireball's cast time is negligible, speaking less than 0.02 seconds off the cast time for 1% haste. and you need roughly 2k worth of haste rating, going from ~3k to ~5k for additional ticks of NT and/or Combustion, which would take off about 0.1 seconds on your fireball's cast time. in the end, mastery & haste are pretty close in terms of damage output, which is why you see such variations in reforges and opinions. but in my opinion, the top parses on WoL come from great combustions, not slightly faster fireballs or NT ticks, which is why i favor mastery after cap.
    This logic...I don't even know where to begin....

    I don't really know much about fire mages to dispute the over-arching claims that mastery and haste are similar in value, but I just felt like I'd contribute by noting that how you arrived at that idea is horribly, horribly wrong.

    I could say 1% haste only takes 0.01s off my melee swing timer so it's negligible and it only gives me 0.01 more energy per second so that's negligible too. Then I could say mastery gives me a whole 15 energy every time it procs so mastery gives more energy than haste. Thus haste isn't really that useful for combat since it's only taking 0.01s off my melee swing timer and I'd get more energy from stacking mastery so mastery is better for combat than haste.

    I could say that, but I'd be wrong. The fact is you have to model haste as X% more "stuff" thus producing Y% more damage based on this larger amount of stuff.

    1% haste is 1% more fireballs. That's the takeaway, not "the effect of haste on fireball's cast time is negligible".

  13. #13
    The Patient elpadrino293's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iracor View Post
    1% haste is 1% more fireballs. That's the takeaway, not "the effect of haste on fireball's cast time is negligible".
    please tell me how you can have 1% more fireballs if you don't have 100 fireballs to begin with when you cannot have fractions of a fireball. the benefit from haste regarding fireball will only lower the cast time, allowing time for more spells to be cast, that is it. and you need to cast 100 fireballs, which is 3min and 20sec of casting fireballs, not to mention all the other spells that you will have to cast, to allow enough time for you to cast just one extra fireball. if you haven't scraped together enough fractions of a second to allow you the time to cast another spell, then really, how beneficial is the gain?

    when we compare 5% haste rather than simply 1% haste, well guess what... we go past the next breakpoint for haste resulting in more dot ticks, and then have to again question what to do with the remaining value of haste after the breakpoint.

    and as far as comparing a combat rogue's value of haste, which their best stat, to either their mastery or crit is like a fire mage comparing crit to haste or mastery. there isn't even a question why it is better. you would have been better off comparing combat rogues crit and mastery.
    Last edited by elpadrino293; 2013-03-24 at 10:55 AM.

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