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  1. #1

    1m + DPS burst phases (Assassination Rogue)

    We are quickly approaching it becoming commonplace for rogues to be bursting up to 1m dps in situations like using lust on the pull or during massive +dmg buffs. With all trinkets procced + pre pot in my own raid I am seeing 700k+ burst as commonplace. If over the course of an entire fight you do around 70m damage, doing 1m dps for 10 seconds means 14%+ of your damage is done in the first 15 seconds of a fight.

    If this trend continues then what differentiates 'average' from 'good' dps will come down to how things are handled during this critical burst phase. Every rogue that wants to min/max is going to have to go Troll, not because of the 5% extra damage on beasts, but because getting +20% haste for 10 seconds from berserking will net you several million more damage.

    I'm curious how many of you have noticed this trend, or have noticed fights where you end up doing millions of dps more or less than another rogue in your raid with the only real difference in dps graphs being the burst damage phases. Even though we have heard many predictions of combat burst being crazy with 4pc T15, the numbers clearly show that even though combat gets more burst phases the phases themselves are significantly weaker than what assassination can do.
    Most people would rather die than think, and most people do. -Bertrand Russell
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  2. #2
    I dunno where you get your numbers from, but from my recount I was barely able to scratch 300k with 4t14 and now with 2t15 I'm barely able to scratch 250k durgin burst and still get ranked every so often.
    Of course, only 10m raid here, so I can't commend on other rogues performance. I was 25m Terrace 2 weeks ago and the other rogue there did only half my dps, so...

    Also I'm playing night elf (because appearance matters more than 0.5 % dmg to me and shadowmeld is nice outside of raids).

  3. #3
    The only log I've seen someone bursting up to 1 million DPS is on ji-kun with the Primal Nutriment buff + heroisim + vendetta + shadow blades + trinkets, etc.
    Last edited by rayanne; 2013-04-01 at 08:47 PM.

  4. #4
    Field Marshal Mersynd's Avatar
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    You should be more specific on where and how you are getting your information. I am looking at both WoL and Skada and I only see myself bursting up to 350-400k on normal buffed fights. None of this even means anything anyway because just being able to burst a lot of damage for a short period of time does not mean you are a good player or able to do an entire encounter. You need to be able to use your CDs correctly and have consistent damage throughout a fight while taking minimal damage. Totally useless thread.

  5. #5
    WTB logs for 700k burst being "commonplace". People don't do that in the best guilds in the world; you can see meters in their videos.

  6. #6
    Something smells like April fools shenanigans

  7. #7
    Went up to ~550k on the opening without any extra ability (such as primal nutriments, etc), got crappy gear and no 4p though, but the vp trinket on the other hand (which is globally bad but probably the best when it comes to burst on the opening). Would like to see 700k+ logs.

  8. #8
    I feel like they mean Damage Done and not Damage Per a Second...

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Hamanis View Post
    I feel like they mean Damage Done and not Damage Per a Second...
    If it was Damage Done, I'd actually laugh at this guy pretty hard. I was doing way more than 1M only a week ago when I posted a thread about "Look how much burst I can do!"

    As was discussed in that thread extensively, burst isn't really a sign of a broken class in PvE. Yes, it makes the damage meter look really high during those phases, but it eventually evens out.
    Carp - Illidan-US
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  10. #10
    The point of my post is that from what I am observing, rogue (assassination) dps is moving away from what everyone complained as overly reliant on passive damage to massive burst dps that lines up with cd/trinket procs and a relatively static rotation between those phases. It isn't going to really matter what you do between when your cds are up, the difference between contributing 60m and 70m damage on a fight will come down to loading as many cds as you can into those 20-30 second windows. Take a look at the top WoL parses for 25H Jin'rohk, look at the dps graphs.
    Most people would rather die than think, and most people do. -Bertrand Russell
    There is not a flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people. -Howard Zinn
    The stars may be far away, but people still reach for them. -My Grandfather

  11. #11
    So maybe it's a good idea to take another look at how the Sims are rating "holding" Vendetta for Shadow Blades? Is that your suggestion?

    And I wouldn't use Jin'rokh as a "target dummy fight". The DPS boost from standing in pools tends to skew meters.
    Carp - Illidan-US
    I wish I wish I was a fish.
    Rogue - Warlock

  12. #12
    I'm seeing these "1m+" sections as "650k+" from the top rogue logs on Jin'rokh where there's an encounter DPS boost. If you're talking 1m+ burst on a fight where you pull 150k DPS overall, that's a big burst phase that really matters, and grabbing a 20% haste boost for 10 seconds WOULD be VERY BIG.

    The reality is, the burst max, even for a fight where your damage is lopsided from fight mechanics, the difference isn't burst of 6-7x average, it's 2-3x average of the fight's DPS - rogues pulling 270k average DPS are pulling 650-754k burst on Jin'rokh (inside the 40% buff, with all CDs). This strikes me as perfectly normal distribution, and what we should be used to. Getting a 20% haste boost for 10 seconds where you're doing 3x normal damage is naturally accounted for by sims, and isn't pulling ahead THAT far.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8...e=407#Ballball is the 2nd-highest log, and convenient, because they have 3 similar rogues.

    This remains a fight where you're talking about 70m damage done, yes, but neither are you doing 10m in 10 seconds, nor is the fight lasting for 10 minutes. The comparison falls apart.
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-04-02 at 12:08 AM.

  13. #13
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    doubt it, please post any sort of proof you think you have. thanks

  14. #14
    Field Marshal Mersynd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venant View Post
    Take a look at the top WoL parses for 25H Jin'rohk, look at the dps graphs.
    LOL so you are looking at a fight where there is a huge damage buff?! Wow what a complete waste of time this was. You should apologize to everyone for your stupidity.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Carp The Fish View Post
    If it was Damage Done, I'd actually laugh at this guy pretty hard. I was doing way more than 1M only a week ago when I posted a thread about "Look how much burst I can do!"
    But "to do 1M" doesn't mean anything. 1M DPS? Impossible, even on burst.
    1M damage? If you mean 1M dmg on a given timeframe, then we're talking DPS, so you're incorrect. Otherwise, it would mean 1M damages on a single hit, and that's only achievable through tricks on a very well geared mage (530+ ilvl).

  16. #16
    No, actually I found an about 1mil burst... check this log its a 524 ilvl with a 517 spiritserver and 502 offhand from what I saw on his armory
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ab...e=9341#Hansell
    Last edited by Wheelchair; 2013-04-02 at 06:00 AM.

  17. #17
    And I can do 12 million damage burst as a level 80 in a vehicle quest.

    You can't pick fights with damage increases and declare them the norm. Your burst factoring out the artificial inflation is a third of that. So you didn't do 1mil, you did ~333k burst. Hardly the stuff of legend.
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ab...?s=8649&e=9341

  18. #18
    Um... I think the statements regarding fights with a huge damage buff still stand.
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=137240
    Tishelle (Rogue) - Tisha (Mage) - Tishandra (DK) - Tisharia (Priest) - Tishanna (Warlock) - Tishie (Monk) - Tishette (Boosted Warrior )

  19. #19
    Field Marshal Mersynd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelchair View Post
    No, actually I do about 1mil bursts... check my log im 524 ilvl with a shitty 517 spiritserver and 502 offhand
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ab...e=9341#Hansell
    Seriously? Another idiot with damage increased mechanics.

    Infracted: flaming
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-04-02 at 04:19 AM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelchair View Post
    No, actually I do about 1mil bursts... check my log im 524 ilvl with a shitty 517 spiritserver and 502 offhand
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ab...e=9341#Hansell
    On Horridon, who takes 200% additional damage.

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