Initial Thoughts?

[Deleted]

Surprised, dissapointed.

I'm a huge MTG/MTGO fan. It kinda looks like a MTG Duel of the Planewalkers ripoff, and for kids. It looks like it has been dumbed to to a ridicilous level of simplicity and is simply too cartoony for me.

If you want to play a TCG online, please, take a loot a MTGO (it is free to play too), it is muuuuuch more advanced than that, has more than 20k cards available, a trading market, loads of players, and updated with new cards every few months. Give it a try : https://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digita...whatshappening

I'll certainly end up trying it at least, maybe it'll surprise me in a good way

[Deleted]

Another pay-for-more-cards-so-you-have-a-chance-to-win-the-bits-and-bites-game to milk the cash-cows called Blizzard-Fanboys...

Post constructively

[xanzul]

Take an introductory course in Marketing son. You don't announce little things on big expositions that get extensive global media coverage. No matter how they frame it, they created a buzz which is a job well done. If you don't think they anticipated this and wanted to achieve this, then you're simply delusional and dense.

I'm not going to bother. This forum has an eerie, almost sexual infatuation with everything Blizzard says or does. They are a pristine exemplary company that does no company stuffs. They are not in the business of making money, but in the business of making virtual love to us. Their press statements are personal messages into our soul, by no means marketing tricks to get the attention of the public and press and to get the word of mouth going. They are our rock, our savior, they are the epitome of the social corporation that is 100% customer driven. They can do no wrong.

And for the record: I didn't really expect anything of this. I knew it would be a simplistic game to cater to the booming mobile gaming market, be that BAS or this card game.

I hope it's a good fun game, but I'm critical. But hey, what would you know.

PAX East is very very very popular with the tabletop gaming/tcg crowd. This is why Blizzard announced Hearthstone there. That is all there is to it whether you like it or not whether you understand it or not. Accusing those who disagree with you of being fanboys or even implying it just makes you look ignorant.

---------- Post added 2013-03-23 at 08:12 AM ----------

Surprised, dissapointed.

I'm a huge MTG/MTGO fan. It kinda looks like a MTG Duel of the Planewalkers ripoff, and for kids. It looks like it has been dumbed to to a ridicilous level of simplicity and is simply too cartoony for me.

If you want to play a TCG online, please, take a loot a MTGO (it is free to play too), it is muuuuuch more advanced than that, has more than 20k cards available, a trading market, loads of players, and updated with new cards every few months. Give it a try : https://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digita...whatshappening

I'll certainly end up trying it at least, maybe it'll surprise me in a good way

It is neither a rip off nor is it childish or meant for kids. Seriously give it a fucking rest. If you have actual criticism with substance please post it otherwise take it elsewhere.

---------- Post added 2013-03-23 at 08:13 AM ----------

Another pay-for-more-cards-so-you-have-a-chance-to-win-the-bits-and-bites-game to milk the cash-cows called Blizzard-Fanboys...

Get out. Just go. No one is making you pay for Blizzard products or play their games or read forums about their games. Move the fuck on already.

[Kathranis]

If you want to play a TCG online, please, take a loot a MTGO (it is free to play too)

Magic: The Gathering Online actually costs $10 to create a new account and is heavily monetized. Compared to the visuals and style of Hearthstone I think it actually looks really bland, too.

[Deleted]

Christ, Blizzard announces a new smaller project that's f2p and people still find things to moan about.

But, of course, I'm just a Blizzard fanboy for not thinking this announcement was going to change my way of life, bring world peace and give free legendaries for logging into WoW this weekend.

[Deleted]

Christ, Blizzard announces a new smaller project that's f2p and people still find things to moan about.

At least they finally proved something I've been saying for years now, that if Blizz chose to give people something for free, they'd still complain. It's quite funny actually.

Anyhoo, it might look simple and all, but I reckon it could be fun. Definitely giving it a shot.

[Fenixdown]

Fenixdown, have you ever posted in a thread without your childish ad hominem attacks to anyone that dares defy your beloved Blizzard?

You're fucking annoying in any topic where people are allowed to post opinions.

Did you even read the post I quoted? An opinion would have been "Eh, not really a fan of this". The person I quoted said "LOLOLOLOLOLOL APRIL FOOLS JOKE!".

If they had an opinion, that would have been one thing. They had something stupid to say instead. People that say stupid things are bad and they should feel bad. I find them incredibly annoying.

[Endus]

As a personal rule of thumb I would never pay real life money for virtual items.

The thing is, you already do. It's the world we live in. The "virtual" aspect means it exists only as data. The same is true of, say;
1> Everything anyone buys on Steam.
2> Every piece of digital music or media purchased online and downloaded.
3> Sub fees and such for online games like WoW
And so on.

I totally understand not wanting to pay microtransactions if you can avoid them; I play a couple games with cash shops (TSW, APB: Reloaded, currently), and I don't buy stuff from those for the most part. That's because I'm cheap, though. Especially if I can earn whatever reward it is; I'd rather invest the time and earn something. That's the main reason I've never gotten into MTGO; it requires way too much money, and even though I spent a few hundred bucks on MTG cards back in the '90s, I felt I still had something physical for that investment.

But really, there's not that big a difference between the real and the virtual, these days. My issues are primarily because I'm of the generation that's straddling this shift; the Internet wasn't a "thing" when I was a kid, I got my start on BBSes you had to dial into with your 56.6k baud modem.

I'm a huge MTG/MTGO fan. It kinda looks like a MTG Duel of the Planewalkers ripoff, and for kids. It looks like it has been dumbed to to a ridicilous level of simplicity and is simply too cartoony for me.

It is exactly as cartoony as WoW is, because it's based on WoW. It is not "for kids" as a result of that, though it may be kid-appropriate. Is it going to be more simplistic than MTGO, and with fewer cards? Yes; it's a fresh launch of a new IP, while MTGO is drawing on dozens of expansions across two decades. That doesn't make it a "worse game", any more than a new MMO is automatically worse than WoW because WoW has four expansions.

[Deleted]

I am suprised but very pleased Looking forward alot to this game!

[Eroginous]

The thing is, you already do. It's the world we live in. The "virtual" aspect means it exists only as data. The same is true of, say;
1> Everything anyone buys on Steam.
2> Every piece of digital music or media purchased online and downloaded.
3> Sub fees and such for online games like WoW

Let me explain my point a little better. Wow has a vanity cash shop, you can buy mounts or companion pets, but you can't buy actual power from said cash shop. You can also buy character services such as faction changes, realm transfers, ect, but at the end of the day, to obtain maximum enjoyment of the game, you don't have to spend more than $15 a month and the price of content such as expansions.

MTG has a high cost to entry, and a competitive player can spend $200-500 per month just keeping up with the game. The end result though, is you get a real tangible product for the money you spend. It's value fluctuates, of course, but it remains tangible and you will always be able to have it regardless of what happens to the game as a whole later on down the road.

MTGO, the online version of the game, is practically the same in every aspect as the paper version, except that the cards are virtual and are owned by WOTC, much like all our Wow characters and accounts are owned by Blizzard. At the end, you have to compare spending $200-500 on a real physical product, to spending $200-500 on a virtual product.

Sure, you get the added benefit of being able to play against anyone online without leaving your house, but what happens when the servers are down, you want to play magic but you're away from home, or wotc decides to shut her down for good? All that time, all that money invested into a virtual product you simply don't own at the end of the day.

I can justify spending $15 a month for Wow. I can even justify spending a lot of money on real life MTG cards. I can't justify spending a ton of money on a virtual card game.

[Endus]

Let me explain my point a little better. Wow has a vanity cash shop, you can buy mounts or companion pets, but you can't buy actual power from said cash shop. You can also buy character services such as faction changes, realm transfers, ect, but at the end of the day, to obtain maximum enjoyment of the game, you don't have to spend more than $15 a month and the price of content such as expansions.

MTG has a high cost to entry, and a competitive player can spend $200-500 per month just keeping up with the game. The end result though, is you get a real tangible product for the money you spend. It's value fluctuates, of course, but it remains tangible and you will always be able to have it regardless of what happens to the game as a whole later on down the road.

MTGO, the online version of the game, is practically the same in every aspect as the paper version, except that the cards are virtual and are owned by WOTC, much like all our Wow characters and accounts are owned by Blizzard. At the end, you have to compare spending $200-500 on a real physical product, to spending $200-500 on a virtual product.

Possibly not the best path to your issue, since you can still (I believe, anyway) trade in complete sets of virtual cards for physical MTG cards. Though you end up paying shipping and such.

Sure, you get the added benefit of being able to play against anyone online without leaving your house, but what happens when the servers are down, you want to play magic but you're away from home, or wotc decides to shut her down for good? All that time, all that money invested into a virtual product you simply don't own at the end of the day.

The same kind of stuff happens with physical content. You lose things. They get damaged by water/fire/mold/whatever. They suffer wear and tear from use. You (or your friends) move on to a new game and you can't get anyone to play with you any more. It's just different problems, it's not that virtual goods are inherently less "real". They're as real as money. When I get paid, direct deposit goes straight into my bank account without me touching any cash. I can then use that money to buy lunch with my debit card, which is using virtual payment for real-life goods; the exchange only exists as data.

The line between virtual and real has been blurred for decades, already. It doesn't make sense to try and artificially distinguish between them any more, when so much of what we already treat as "real" is explicitly virtual.

I can justify spending $15 a month for Wow. I can even justify spending a lot of money on real life MTG cards. I can't justify spending a ton of money on a virtual card game.

I couldn't justify spending a ton of money of a card game, real or virtual, but Hearthstone lets you earn boosters by playing, so you don't need to. All paying does is speed up the process and let you avoid playing the game.

And if a game is fun, I should WANT to play it. If it's just a treadmill grind to maybe unlock future fun, why am I bothering, again?

[Deleted]

Can't say I have much interest in it, if it had any form of tie-ins with WoW then I'd probably give it a look (minipets / unlockables etc like the "real" TCG has).

Might look at it since I've some degree of interest in MTG, but it's competing for time with things that interest me more right now.

[SamR]

Take an introductory course in Marketing son.

I think you should ask for your money back on that marketing course you took.

Blizzard said they would announce a "little something" and they announced a little something.

Now you're mad because they didn't follow Dekadez's rules of marketing.

[Deleted]

I'm really excited. The game art&style looks awesome (just like any other Blizzard game), makes we want to not wait for the beta, hehe. Definitely looking forward it!

[unholytestament]

Take an introductory course in Marketing son. You don't announce little things on big expositions that get extensive global media coverage.

You don't? Really? Because Blizzard did. And they even told us ahead of time that it would be a little thing.

No matter how they frame it, they created a buzz which is a job well done.

And? There's nothing Blizzard can do that wouldn't create a buzz among their fanbase. Many gaming sites hang on their every word.

If you don't think they anticipated this and wanted to achieve this, then you're simply delusional and dense.

Of course they anticipated there would be scores of people that completely ignored what they actually said and built up unrealistic expectations based on absolutely nothing. It has been happening for years!

I'm not going to bother. This forum has an eerie, almost sexual infatuation with everything Blizzard says or does. They are a pristine exemplary company that does no company stuffs. They are not in the business of making money, but in the business of making virtual love to us. Their press statements are personal messages into our soul, by no means marketing tricks to get the attention of the public and press and to get the word of mouth going. They are our rock, our savior, they are the epitome of the social corporation that is 100% customer driven. They can do no wrong.

GENERALIZATION OVERLOAD! THE FORUMS CANNOT TAKE ANYMORE, CAPTAIN!

You can paint the entire forum with a broad brush all you like, but you're the one who is blatantly ignoring what Blizzard actually said.

[Eroginous]

Possibly not the best path to your issue, since you can still (I believe, anyway) trade in complete sets of virtual cards for physical MTG cards. Though you end up paying shipping and such.

Well, you're restricted to which sets you can redeem. Each set has a date where once that date has passed, it's no longer available. That date seems to be set for a year after a set is released, though there's a 'guaranteed date' which corresponds with when the set is no longer being actively printed. You can't just hop onto MTGO and start buying up a bunch of cards from 2002 and then get them redeemed for a copy of those cards IRL. On top of that, you can only redeem full sets, not singles or decks.

The same kind of stuff happens with physical content. You lose things. They get damaged by water/fire/mold/whatever. They suffer wear and tear from use. You (or your friends) move on to a new game and you can't get anyone to play with you any more. It's just different problems, it's not that virtual goods are inherently less "real". They're as real as money. When I get paid, direct deposit goes straight into my bank account without me touching any cash. I can then use that money to buy lunch with my debit card, which is using virtual payment for real-life goods; the exchange only exists as data.

The line between virtual and real has been blurred for decades, already. It doesn't make sense to try and artificially distinguish between them any more, when so much of what we already treat as "real" is explicitly virtual.

Whether or not something gets worn, damaged, lost, or stolen depends completely on the owners of the cards. Most serious players won't play with any cards without sleeves, they have cards that are very valuable they don't just leave lying around at home waiting to be accidentally damaged or lost. Most players keep their valuable cards in a binder so they stay nice, and only handle them between creating a deck, trading, or opening a pack. Even then, they're only handling them long enough to put them in a binder or a sleeve.

In my 15 years of playing magic, I've never accidentally destroyed a card. I've never had any of my cards stolen. I've never played with my cards in a way that causes wear or damage. Mostly because I value them in a certain way regardless of how anyone else values them..

That's what I'm talking about here, really. Value. In real life a card has a value instilled in it based on its effect in the game, its rarity in print, the condition of the card, and its distribution over a given time frame. Many of the most valuable cards in this game are not available on MTGO, and even if they were, they are out of print IRL, so you wouldn't be able to get a set containing them redeemed IRL. In MTGO you only need one copy of a card to use it any number of times in any number of decks. In real life, you you have to obtain a copy of a card as many times as you want to use it in on or more decks. You can have a maximum of 4 of any card in a deck, so basically you're paying 4x as much for a play set of a card IRL as you would on MTGO.

Good cards, especially ones that remain relevant long after their set rotates, remain valuable IRL. A perfect example is Arcbound Ravager, from the Darksteel card set released in 2004. It was available both in real life and on MTGO when it came out, and during it's legality the price was $20-40 per copy because of how good it was and how rare.

Now, nearly 10 years later, the price is still fluctuating between $20-40 for a paper copy of the card, even on sites like Ebay. However, the price for said card on MTGO tops out at $14. When the MTGO servers go down and Wotc stops producing the game, Arcbound Ravager will be worth $0 on MTGO, and still be worth $20-40 in real life. $20-40 isn't even the extreme value of most cards. A Black Lotus from any of the first three printed sets will go for anywhere from $1,000-10,000 depending on condition and grade. The highest graded Black Lotus is valued at $100,000. There are other cards that are worth several thousands of dollars IRL, and most of them are not available on MTGO and will never be made available on MTGO.

When MTGO goes offline for good, I'll still be able to dust off all my old paper MTG cards and play with them. I won't be able to that with anything I have on MTGO.

In most other cases, I'd gladly agree with you that it's difficult to distinguish between 'real' and 'virtual' goods and services. But in the case of MTG, it's one of those exceptions that exists both on the internet and IRL, in (mostly) equal proportions. The value of paper cards will always be there as long as people are interested in the game, while the value of virtual cards will only be there so long as you have an internet connect, computer, and Wotc continues to support MTGO. If all you care about is the short term value of MTG, then the online version of the game is great and gives you access to a pretty amazing game. But if you care about the long term value of MTG, then yes, you have to distinguish between the paper and digital versions of the game as part of a value judgement.

I couldn't justify spending a ton of money of a card game, real or virtual, but Hearthstone lets you earn boosters by playing, so you don't need to. All paying does is speed up the process and let you avoid playing the game.

And if a game is fun, I should WANT to play it. If it's just a treadmill grind to maybe unlock future fun, why am I bothering, again?

In the case of MTG, you have different 'formats' players play in. Each format has it's own set of rules and a list of cards that are 'legal' for play. The most popular format is called 'type 2' or 'standard.' Within that format, you have subsets such as: constructed, drafted, sealed, ect. Standard play includes cards from the two most recently printed blocks and the most recently printed core set. Each block contains one larger base set and two smaller expansion sets. At any one time, standard consists of at least the five most recent sets of cards and at most the most recent 7.

A new core set comes out every year, and new block sets come out ever 4 months. An active player who participates in standard events might spend anywhere from $200-500 a month on the game. This money goes to purchase cards and enter into tournaments, and doesn't account for things such as travel expenses and meals while out playing. When you consider how much it costs to play Wow ($15 a month) and how much access to the game you get for that price, it's the most cost effective form of entertainment out there (that isn't free).

In MTG, if you want to play in one single event, you're often paying $15 just to do so. A Friday Night Magic constructed or draft tournament usually costs $15 to enter, it lasts for maybe 4-6 hours, and it's a one time deal. If you are playing constructed format, you have to have a deck of cards to play with before you can enter the tournament, so you have to buy the cards you want to put into your deck, which is additional money. A competitive standard legal constructed deck can cost anywhere from $100-400 depending on how competitive you want to be. Even if you go on the less expensive side and build a $100 deck once a month, participate in 4 tournaments every month @ $15 each (every Friday night), you're spending $200 a month.

Consider the fact that many players have multiple decks to play with in standard, participate in multiple events each week (sometimes multiple events in a single day), and you can see how the cost of the game climbs rather quickly. Still, at the end of the day you have something to show for playing MTG IRL. You can sell off the cards you have that will rotate soon and recoup some of the money you spent, hopefully putting that money towards the next set that comes out.

When it comes to MTGO, you might not spend as much on individual cards, but you will spend as much (if not more) to participate in events, especially when they aren't bound by an IRL schedule (most IRL events take place on a Friday or over the weekend, the rest of the time you're probably not paying to play magic). With MTGO, you can participate in an event anytime you want to, day or night. If you have the time, you can play 20 back to back events at the cost of $15 each, over the course of a 2-3 day period ($300).

So yeah, I'm glad that Hearthstone will be free. That way I can try it and if I like it, I don't have to spend a dime to continue playing it over the course of a long period of time. In the end, I won't be sad when the game goes offline or stops being developed. I won't have lost anything of value.

[Kaneiac]

I'm not going to bother. This forum has an eerie, almost sexual infatuation with everything Blizzard says or does. They are a pristine exemplary company that does no company stuffs. They are not in the business of making money, but in the business of making virtual love to us. Their press statements are personal messages into our soul, by no means marketing tricks to get the attention of the public and press and to get the word of mouth going. They are our rock, our savior, they are the epitome of the social corporation that is 100% customer driven. They can do no wrong.

I find this extremely funny, given that I feel the exact, 100% opposite. This forum has an incredible amount of vitriol aimed towards Blizzard.

[Slaughty8]

I think that this game is a new kind of a product by itself. Depending on it's success, we will see other IP's following it, as devs and future devs will see an opportunity to earn some bucks.

The best thing of this prodcut is how "cheap" it was to produce vs future possible income. Ratio is epic.

[Migrin]

I am big fan of trading card games and never had the opportunity to play the wow tcg so I think this could be a great way to get my hands on it. The trailer is cool. Especially the dwarf! but how can a dwarf not be awesome ;-) How ever, the ui does not look very appealing to me.

[Cuppy]

The only thing I'm worried... Oh man. I really fear that this becomes just another Mobile TCG. Mobage currently has quite a lot of card games google play store and while atleast some of them are quite nice, most of those games are basically pay to win. Sure you can have "special cards" from events but initially if you want to compete... Well you really have to pay some serious cash.
Meh, I guess all I hope that it won't be another pay to win card game. They say that rare cards can drop from some random stuff... But uh, well they also said that there is a chance of failbag containing goodies.. (My 56th bag gave me a potion of the mountains). I'm too afraid to even try :|