1. #1

    Happy times in Arena

    I am a fire mage and my partner is a Holy Paladin. We did some 2v2s yesterday and had a pretty interesting fight. Hold your horses this is not a QQ post, I just want to share what happened in that fight and maybe find what your opinions are on the situation described bellow.

    We went against a team composed of a Balance Druid and a Disc Priest. We had pretty much similar gear. We fought for 15 freakin' minutes. I couldn't burst down any of them and they couldn't kill any of us. A lot of CC's (annoying tornado silence beam crap all the way). A few times they almost killed my partner and other times I almost killed the priest or the druid. In that fight both of the teams managed insane CC chains but no one died.

    In the end the situation was like this. All of us were full HP, my paladin partner had around 60% mana and the disc priest was low on mana for the last 10 mins. He still could heal the hell out of himself and the druid and also throw shields. I am not exagerating 70-80% of the fight the disc priest was at 20% mana max. I remember I even chained 5 Pyros that all crit (thank the RNG gods) and I still couldn't finish him off (got him to around 5%). In my opinion in that situation should be GG and we should have won and the bloody priest should be unable to heal anything. After 15 or so minutes my partner got a major lag spike and DC'ed so we lost the match, and the opposite team started to yell like morons some intangible stuff, probably something like "yeah we pwned you, we are better than you". In the end I did almost double the DPS that the balance druid did.

    Again I am not QQing and I really enjoyed the fight because it was pretty tensed (I was sweating like a pig at the end). I actually PVP for these kind of moments when you have a long fight and you have to do absolutely everything perfect to win. But in my opinion the situation in which the priest was OOM completely and I did double the DPS than of the opponent we should have won.

  2. #2
    Unfortunate dc, but that's how the ball rolls sometimes. In a draw you both would have lost rating, but yes, in tournaments when it's a case-by-case basis, victory goes to the team that put out the most damage in the event of a draw.

    However on live, if you can't kill all enemy players, or cause them to leave, you can't win a match. Just how it works.

  3. #3
    Dreadlord joepesci's Avatar
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    Healers are over the top, regardless where you place them.

    Sometimes you can see streams of 3on3 matches from top PvP players, where the fight goes on for 10+ min, and their healers are still sitting at 90% mana.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by joepesci View Post
    Sometimes you can see streams of 3on3 matches from top PvP players, where the fight goes on for 10+ min, and their healers are still sitting at 90% mana.
    Because you create opportunitys for your healer to drink, at lower ratings damage is so low because the players are just bad so you don't need to drink. At top levels you constantly go drink to stay ahead on mana.

  5. #5
    This is why I dont play with a healer in 2s, the game isn't balanced for it....and I don't have the time for those marathon games. At certain gear levels people just aren't going to die.

    Sounds like an enjoyable match though.

    (I play Fire Mage as well)

    By the way Booj, what glyphs do you run for 2s? I dont have a healer so I go for evo glyph, which means I miss out on Armors.

  6. #6
    Well, also there's the fact that Disc's mana bounces back and forth all the time. In PvE, you may use 60% of your mana in the first minute and get it back in the next.
    Sad to hear you lost it, but you can't do anything but suck it up and requeue, unfortunately.

  7. #7
    Stood in the Fire Exploitbat's Avatar
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    So what if the priest was oom? All casters regen mana. It's not about getting the other healer oom, it's about killing them, so no, you don't deserve the win.
    You know when people want you to tell them the truth? They lie.

  8. #8
    I think when healer/dps mirrors go on forever it is basically because the healer is not used to playing 2v2 and is healing like it is a 3v3 match. Have your paladin change his play style for 2v2 to be way more super aggressive and assisting you on damage. It will do one of two things... score you a kill or run him oom and lose the game. Either case is a win over a 45 minute draw. I think you will find that the more offensive your healer is the better the games go. Traditionally this is why disc has been the goto 2v2 healer because of their damage, but now most of the heal specs can do some decent damage. Just takes a little bit of adjustment on the healer's part to know when he has to have you topped off and when it is okay for them to assist damage while you are a little low.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrean View Post
    I think when healer/dps mirrors go on forever it is basically because the healer is not used to playing 2v2 and is healing like it is a 3v3 match. Have your paladin change his play style for 2v2 to be way more super aggressive and assisting you on damage. It will do one of two things... score you a kill or run him oom and lose the game. Either case is a win over a 45 minute draw. I think you will find that the more offensive your healer is the better the games go. Traditionally this is why disc has been the goto 2v2 healer because of their damage, but now most of the heal specs can do some decent damage. Just takes a little bit of adjustment on the healer's part to know when he has to have you topped off and when it is okay for them to assist damage while you are a little low.
    That's nice feedback to consider the healer to be more aggresive. Thanks for the help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exploitbat View Post
    So what if the priest was oom? All casters regen mana. It's not about getting the other healer oom, it's about killing them, so no, you don't deserve the win.
    Well that's my point, if you are in a situation where no one can kill anyone and the healers can't go oom who wins ? This is if we take everything else as a constant. But when I do double the damage of the other DPS and I still can't kill one of them I don't think there is something wrong with me and you can't say that I didn't deserve the win. From my point of view I deserved it, because my healer (the paladin) can go and will go oom (happened in a lot of fights). He didn't this time because the boomkin wasn't doing enough damage. I did enough damage to bring their healer to 0 mana for most of the fight, however the mechanics of his class permited him to regain mana constantly.

    To be fair it should be a draw in this situation and I am content with it considering the above situation. All in all it was a good fight from which we learned a lot. In a different situation if the boomkin did the same damage as me probably we would lose because my paladin would idd go oom. My bad luck was that my partner DC'ed.

  10. #10
    I actually am thinking about creating a twitter account just so I can tweet to GC the idea of lowering the draw time on arena to 30 minutes and making a tie breaker be total team damage done. Would be interesting because it would solve the double healer scum teams in 2v2 and 3v3 while at the same time helping the 2v2 healer/dps teams as well.

    What do you guys think?

  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans crakerjack's Avatar
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    Now let me ask you a question... if you would have won, would you have came on here to talk about your match? I highly doubt it... sounds like a frustrating loss... but to come and say your post isn't to QQ... well... you didn't leave us with anything to contribute other than why you didn't win the match when the priest was low... aside from pointing out that you guys didn't work well enough to win, I can't really engage anymore in this topic because there's nothing to talk about.

    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  12. #12
    Mechagnome Zippoflames's Avatar
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    the draw timer is already 25 mins now I think it is, maybe 30mins

  13. #13
    I used to play Holy Pally/Feral Druid back in WoTLK. I remember we had a few 45 minute matches that ended in a draw. One was a 2v1 situation where we killed the DPS but the Prot Pally (which was the FoTM healing spec lol) just wouldn't die.

    We did break 2k rating for the first time that season though.

  14. #14
    I just looked it up and in pach 5.1 arena time limit was lowered form 45 minutes to 25. You are correct. I just have not been in a game that long in Mists of OMFGBURST so I have not noticed, lol. Now all they have to do is implement the damage winner and

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by crakerjack View Post
    Now let me ask you a question... if you would have won, would you have came on here to talk about your match? I highly doubt it... sounds like a frustrating loss... but to come and say your post isn't to QQ... well... you didn't leave us with anything to contribute other than why you didn't win the match when the priest was low... aside from pointing out that you guys didn't work well enough to win, I can't really engage anymore in this topic because there's nothing to talk about.
    Maybe he wanted to talk about it? plus he did get some useful info from tyrean. i dont see anything in his post that is him QQing and if there was nothing for you to talk about, why did you post anything?

  16. #16
    Long games like that...

    Like Tyrean said having the healer be more aggressive is what you need - in 2's with a healer you need to overextend to get a kill sometimes. If they are putting out so much less damage your healer can be more aggressive because he doesn't have to heal so hard. Also again some comps will be counter comps that are amazing against you (or just OP as hell like pre-patch hunter/warrior).

  17. #17
    Yeah I know 2v2s aren't balanced, and there are some compositions that really destroy us. We just do arenas for fun though.

    Quote Originally Posted by crakerjack View Post
    Now let me ask you a question... if you would have won, would you have came on here to talk about your match? I highly doubt it... sounds like a frustrating loss... but to come and say your post isn't to QQ... well... you didn't leave us with anything to contribute other than why you didn't win the match when the priest was low... aside from pointing out that you guys didn't work well enough to win, I can't really engage anymore in this topic because there's nothing to talk about.
    I think you are right Crakerjack. If we would have won probably I wouldn't have made the post (and if we did what kind of a response was I looking for then ? Probably in that case you would have said that I beg for atention or something...). Still I didn't do it to QQ, I did it because sometimes I like to read about other players' experiences and I thought this would be an interesting post to read for others because let's be honest it was a pretty interesting fight. As a bonus I got some pretty good advice from repliers here about my partner being more aggresive, so thanks for that everyone.

    One other thing, when you say a healer is aggresive, do you refer to him actually doing some DPS on the enemies ? I know my partner does a lot of Denouncing when he is not healing nor CCing.

  18. #18
    Yes, it is about him pushing up for CC, doing DPS when you are bursting and being more aggressive with positioning. Especially as a paladin because he has a melee spell interrupt. It will cause him to be an easier target for switches and CC, but like it has been said before it will make the game faster.

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