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  1. #1
    Dreadlord Elpalmo's Avatar
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    Best tank for 5.2?

    Hello, i'm just getting back into WoW after a 4months break and want to start tanking again.. Over the years i have played all classes (except monk) for tanking but i wanna know what would be the best class at the moment?

    Also, what is the best combo for tanks to have in a raidgroup?

  2. #2
    Pallys for sure.

    Duo, I'd say Pally/Warrior

  3. #3
    Dreadlord Elpalmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liax View Post
    Pallys for sure.

    Duo, I'd say Pally/Warrior
    Oh thank god! That is the class im getting to 90 as we speak :S

    Thx

  4. #4
    I would say dust of your old paladin or Guardian for several resons, the Guardian is in a verry good position right now and can take a lot of damage, and the paladin for all their mitigation also of damage and ofc they have sweet utillities that contributes in a raid inviroment.

  5. #5
    in 10man HC progression paladins are king (dont do 25man so obv cant speak from experience on it)

    the amount of self healing and damage a protection brings in 10man due to their ability to go haste build and completly ignore stamina. In 10mans tank damage is just as important as actually DPS damage. They can also nullify tank swaps with the use of BoPs (obv any pally can do this but adding in the extra bubble from the tank makes it more stable).

    the perfect setup, from what I've seen so far (granted ive only killed 5 HC bosses) is a protection paladin with a druid as offtank. Both work incredibly well with high vengeance and both bring a lot of damage along with their mitigation kit

    obv 10man hc progression do-able without a protection paladin but it will be significantly harder

    think of it like not taking heroism/lust.......its still do-able but why wouldn't you make it easier

    as i said i can only talk from a 10man HC progression viewpoint.....story may be different (although i highly doubt it) on 25man HC progression

  6. #6
    Dreadlord Elpalmo's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies guys !

  7. #7
    Blademaster Genoqt's Avatar
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    Pally is ahead, thats clear but i think in 2nd place Druid and Monks are very close together. Monks can bring also a ton of dps with high vengeance.
    Actually Progressing Horridon with a little bit undergeared Warri and me as an monk its fine but yeah u realise the ilvl 505 from the warri, he gets smashed a few times.

    Can anybody say something on aggro generation on warris? last week jinrok our pally has no problems to keep aggro when im dps with full vengeance, yeah i got salvation but i got it this week also and our warri couldnt keep aggro so i was forced to drop vengeance :/

  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire Xenlol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genoqt View Post
    Pally is ahead, thats clear but i think in 2nd place Druid and Monks are very close together. Monks can bring also a ton of dps with high vengeance.
    Actually Progressing Horridon with a little bit undergeared Warri and me as an monk its fine but yeah u realise the ilvl 505 from the warri, he gets smashed a few times.

    Can anybody say something on aggro generation on warris? last week jinrok our pally has no problems to keep aggro when im dps with full vengeance, yeah i got salvation but i got it this week also and our warri couldnt keep aggro so i was forced to drop vengeance :/
    Your Warrior sucks.

  9. #9
    Best combo is Paladin + Paladin

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrubs-go-home View Post
    Best combo is Paladin + Paladin
    And a paladin healer or two
    Lewax - Brewmaster Monk
    Quote Originally Posted by Bladeface View Post
    a fear is not a stun. a stun is a stun. they are 2 different things. you mean CC(Croud Control)

  11. #11
    We have a long thread on this exact same subject on page 2 of these forums.

  12. #12
    Paladin has the highest potetial for sure, but a bad paladin is also a very weak tank. Paladins have some of the lowest armor and lowest passive damage reduction of all tank classes, so if you do not use your SotR properly you will find yourself being weaker than other tanks. That said, a paladin tank in the right hands pull ahead of all other tank classes, but their AM is arguably the hardest to time and most sensitive, but also the most reliable if used properly.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  13. #13
    A bad monk is by far weaker, truth be told. As for paladins, the 5.3 patch notes need to break haste for them. It's getting completely out of hand. By the end of the expansion, with ~560 gear, they may very well get the award to the most mandatory and broken class on PvE, ever. It's already horrid with only ~520.

  14. #14
    Same can be said about Brewmasters, I don't know what the huge fuss is about paladins, so they have DS/HoP mechanic that makes them cheese horridon and Durumu, those aren't exclusive to just them (it's only more frequent since DS is self-only). In 10mans, Brewmasters have equal oomph to that of a paladin, not to mention the spec takes a lot more skill to play properly (read that as, there is a higher return for player skill).

    - Their AM being the hardest to time is also an untruth compared to how hard heroic bosses hit with their abilities and Brewmasters. Using SoTR you have a window (which DBM floods you with, you'd be blind to be to be able to use SoTR properly) of time to negate damage. In the same way, Brewmasters have to do that, and also micromanage cooldowns. A badly played BrM will completely screw it up and take copuious amounts of unneeded damage, however a good one, will be a hybrid Warrior/Paladin/DK when it comes to frequent killing abilities through rotations of Dampen Harm, EH/GotO, and Guard.

    - Not only that, the "raid healing" everyone is speaking of, is not exclusive to just Paladins, Brewmasters are extremely strong in this department, however the Opportunity cost for doing insane raid healing comes at the cost of personal DPS. (Chi Torpedo - Megaera, Zen Sphere and Chi wave) They also have absorbs that are put on people which are exceptionally strong (upwards of 400k shields), yes it is somewhat random, and a smart heal, but battle healer is no different, and battle healer has no effect on a raid fully topped off. (Battle Healer is reactive healing, Guards are proactive).

    - Now, someone said that Paladins go straight for Haste and bypass Stamina; hmm... where have we seen that before? Oh.. that's right, Brewmasters, they stack DPS stats for Active Mitigation.

    - Onto the matter of DPS, many Brewmasters don't actively search for ways to increase their Vengeance, but the spec itself is built the best to absorb copius amounts of damage and turn it into DPS and Raid Healing (Zen Med and Diffuse Magic, on deadly things to boost Vengeance). Additionally, while Paladins provide the highest single target Burst DPS of the tank specs (i.e. Wings on Wind Lord Recklessness), Brewmasters have a 45 second Vengeance scaling cleave monster. That is not to say that Xuen isn't amazing (and only second to Wings) for single target, he is undoubtedly the king of "Burst" (45 seconds) cleave/AoE. Onto the the matter of sustained damage, Paladins and Brewmasters are quite neck to neck in that department, but when it comes to AoE, Brewmasters edge them out by quite a bit.

    - Now due to the logistics of Raid encounters and raid setup, a Paladin brings in "Hands" that they can throw on anyone in the raid, in addition to Devotion Aura. However a Brewmaster, whilst not seen often doing so, brings in Tiger's Lust, and quite an overpowered ability in some encounters; Ring of Peace, both of which are targeted. The Brewmaster version of Devotion Aura is Avert Harm (Has a short range), but it acts to do the exact same job, when people are clumped in one group. One additional thing that Brewmasters can do with aid from no other raiders, is that they can kite mobs indefinitely (you don't rly need this for anything, not even Heroic Tortos Bats, but it's still an option)

    - I mentioned Paladins having the ability to cheese mechanics, while that is true it is not a trait exclusive to Paladins, Monks can effectively take HUGE bursts of damage, if they are prepared for it, and not die without the use of cooldowns. Furthermore, tank switch mechanics that require switches at certain stacks, can be elongated to many, many more additional stacks if the tank is a Brewmaster (How is this beneficial? Vengeance; because it increases raid healing, and overall raid dps, and tank self healing). Examples are Decapitate, this can be eaten wholly with a Zen Med for a huge burst in Vengeance, the ability can also be completely negated by Dampen harm and Fortifying Brew. Then there is Fusion Slash, though it is magic damage, it can be staggered, that means, this ability in and of itself, can be taken to to 6 Stacks with the use of Just Dampen Harm (you won't use it on anything else that phase), or better yet much higher with FB/ Zen Med. Essentially Lei Shen can be solo tanked by a Brewmaster (Dps isn't that tight so people don't do it). The same argument goes for fights like durumu, the dps isn't necessarily tight so you don't need to solo tank it, but you can to give your raid an edge. The only difference is, that cheesing the fights like this requires much less input from a Paladin than it does from a Brewmaster. This showcases the fact that if you are a proper raider and are confident in your skill level, you will excel with a Brewmaster just as much as you will with a Paladin. (If not more on some fights)

    - Finally there is the notion of mobility. Monk's are kings of mobility (WW being the best, followed by Brewmasters), they have ways to cheese mechanics of their own (Transcendence on Anima Ring from Dark Animus), Roll's high mobility, Tiger's Lust. In retrospect, Paladins have a similar boost called Speed of Light or any other variant in the tier, but that is as far as it goes for them specifically.


    Now there is no doubt that Paladins are a strong spec to take as a tank, but Brewmasters have been getting gutted because people have no clue of their potential and no one advocates it properly. OP, you wanted to get a good look at what each class brings, you've been flooded how Paladins are OP, the above is a small glance at a properly executed Brewmaster's potential. I know little about Warriors and Druids this expac, but DK's have their spot in the sunlight too, I'm just not experienced enough in the spec to advocate it, if someone else wants to take that up, by all means.

    You want to know the Opportunity Cost of what you are choosing, so I hope this gives you at least a somewhat reasonable understanding of one of the other specs.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Espada View Post
    A bad monk is by far weaker, truth be told. As for paladins, the 5.3 patch notes need to break haste for them. It's getting completely out of hand. By the end of the expansion, with ~560 gear, they may very well get the award to the most mandatory and broken class on PvE, ever. It's already horrid with only ~520.
    Haste only makes paladins dps competetive with other tanks. If paladins would be forced to stack stamina + mastery they would be even more brokein in comparison to other tanks. The current problem lies in the design of SotR. SotR needs to have a longer duration, but lower effect. As well as a small bump in passive armor to compensate.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Paladin has the highest potetial for sure, but a bad paladin is also a very weak tank. Paladins have some of the lowest armor and lowest passive damage reduction of all tank classes, so if you do not use your SotR properly you will find yourself being weaker than other tanks. That said, a paladin tank in the right hands pull ahead of all other tank classes, but their AM is arguably the hardest to time and most sensitive, but also the most reliable if used properly.
    Try heal a paladin tank without a clue, then a monk tank without a clue, then come back here (which will probably lead to you editing your post).

  17. #17
    These threads never work because warriors say warriors are best, palas say palas are best etc.

    Warriors, Palas DKs, and Monks are pretty much on par if played well. Druids are probably a bit underneath that.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Zonex View Post
    about Brewmasters
    Well, firstly, yes, DBM floods you with timers, but those timers are often CDs, not "that spell is coming now", and if you blindly use your SotR for these timers you will miss because SotR only have a 3 sec duration. Making it very easy to miss time for.

    Also, top of the top paladins outdamage BRMs in both single target and AE. Though the lower end of paladins fall far behind. This alone should tell you that BRM have an easier dps rotation as the lower end of the tank pool monks are far above paladins but in the top, they are below.

    @ Raid healing. Yes, it is not exclusive to paladins, paladins are still the strongest of that. Monks do have decent raid healing, but it is not remotely close to paladins.
    Add on top of that hand of sacrifice, protection, salvation, devotion, HoPur etc.

    Also, I would say warriors are the kings of mobility, but monks are close second.

    And cheesing mechanics, paladins can also eat the entire Decapitate and similar.
    Back in T14 on heroic SK. We used to spread out. Our paladin tank just solo tanked the boss, eating every cleave alone and standing in the first and third annihilate (was a bug on the second annihilate that did not allow him to soak it.) resulting in over 200k dps during the first boss. This also made it very easy when the second boss comes out, as everybody was spread out getting a flanking orders + volley combo was no issue, as the paladin was standing alone, and paladin could also just stand in the flanking orders.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by clampy View Post
    These threads never work because warriors say warriors are best, palas say palas are best etc.

    Warriors, Palas DKs, and Monks are pretty much on par if played well. Druids are probably a bit underneath that.
    Nay. I play a warrior, and I know that my raid will be MUCH better if I changed with other classes. And I don't think I'm derping it. Orange ranks DPS, and yes, I know when to use rallying and demo, safeguard/vigilance. Can't do much more for my raid. A bit sick of what gear and ""minor utility""" is doing to tanks this time.
    Last edited by Espada; 2013-03-23 at 02:10 PM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by clampy View Post
    These threads never work because warriors say warriors are best, palas say palas are best etc.

    Warriors, Palas DKs, and Monks are pretty much on par if played well. Druids are probably a bit underneath that.
    Actually. It is always the same.

    80% of the non tank player base says paladins is the strongest.
    Most of the tanks says paladin are the strongest.
    All paladins says paladins are the strongest.
    Most warriors, know that they are not the best. But they still work, and are still damn strong, they are the class that got the most insight tbh. They know their place and accept it. Not trying to make up some make-belief reasons why their class is the best *cough* dks *cough* monks. Warriors are still damn good tanks with raid good raid utility, they are the 99%! Not the full 100%
    Some druids says "But druids have some uses too" (Actually very legit points, just as BRMs, not many people know the full potential of druids)
    A lot of DKs try to convince people that dks are good. But then fall short to the fact, that DKs have roughly the same survivability as other tanks, they provide lower damage, and have almost 0 raid utility, making it no reason to take a DK over another tank. ( Both tanks can tank as well, but one helps the raid a ton, the other does not ).
    Then some monks always come it with the argument "People just don't know to play monks properly, monks in the right hands is godlike". Yeah, for which tank class is this not true? And then they comment on the 'strong' sides of monks, even though other tank classes are even stronger at said sides. Like DPS and Healing.
    Even though all logs and maths clearly supports this, the monks know better.

    Then I come in, make some reply that usually pisses of monks/DKs, because they can't face the truth. Then the thread just spiral downwards from there.

    Yeah, that is basically how these threads work.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-03-23 at 02:17 PM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

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