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  1. #21
    Warchief theWocky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Just pointing out the correct use of this phrase is "moot" not mute. As in, "Your point is moot." / "The scholar's argument was a moot point to the ongoing conversation."
    Yeah, valid point. I have a habit of resorting to phonetics sometimes without thinking and mixing words up. I suffer from dyslexia.

    You will notice I edit my blogs, my comments a few hundred times. A dyslexic perfectionist is a horrible combination - doesn't help the OCD in the least.

    Also, often start sentences half-way through - I "think" them and don't write them - speak like this too - confuses the hell out of my girlfriend.

    Once wrote an e-mail to a lawyer and afterwards noted that I had said:

    There were floors in the builders work...

    (I meant flaws, of course)


    He He - and please... correct away - never worry about insulting/offending me - you can't. Although, I enjoy criticism, knowledge and appreciate correction of mistakes, I am so secure in all aspects of life, there is little anyone can do to offend/upset me - frustrate and annoy? yes, but offend? Never. I don't regard anyone as "that" important or significant to let them affect me. I mean this sincerely, not as an attack.
    Last edited by theWocky; 2013-03-23 at 10:42 PM.
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    I suppose you'll call me a casual too, you'll get lol'd at plenty if you do though, since casuals don't take a week of when expansions come out to level to 60 in 3-4 days and start raiding ASAP. Nor would casuals be as progressed as I am which is 4/4TDQ, 4/4FT 3/5EE. So yeah, call me casual too if you want, but I say shortening the leveling experience almost needs to be done with an expansion. WoW has done it with every expansion as well, including having an entire class that starts at a higher level. 1-50 is no longer the focus of the game, at all. The 1-50 areas are near dead. The majority of people playing in those zones just want to get out of them and get to where there are people. New players see those old areas, dead, and assume the game is dieing.

    There are 3 possible ways of dealing with this IMO.

    1) Remove 1-50. Everyone starts at 50 with a set of Level 50 gear and you start on SL. If this were going to be done though, it should have been done at SL launch. Heck, you should have been able to buy SL without having bought chocolate and just skip all the chocolate areas. Buying SL lets you create level 50 chars. If someone who loves lore wants to go back and see the old stuff, they still have the option of buying chocolate for $5 and starting a level 1 toon. This is optional however and not mandatory.

    2) Shorten 1-50 significantly. Like a 20% bonus weekend, but permanent, all players under 50 receive it, then do the 20% bonus on top of that. In addition a reduction in amount in takes to level as well. Get people through that part of the game as quickly as possible so they can get to where there actually are people playing the game.

    3) Now this is my favorite idea. The above ideas would work and I would like them and lots of people would probably be happy with them, but this is better IMO. Make Chocolate Rift entirely F2P. All the old content, raids and everything included. Only thing not free is coming to SL. You gotta sub up for that.

    Apparently though, havign this type of opinion makes me a casual, so I am gonna go shoot myself now rather than be labeled a casual.
    Yeah I think your number 3 option is the best over all. Will get lots of people in the 1-50 areas and let people experience a large amount of content and really get a feel for the game. I mean 1-20 free is ok but you still donlt see a lot of the game. I would not be against maybe making the leveling from 1-50 a bit faster as well. But it is already pretty fast so making it free might be enough. I think they need to reduce the exp needed to level from 50-60 as well. I am not really a fan of just giving people a level 50.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by theWocky View Post
    See last point in my post.

    and... lets disregard my 1 x lvl 50, 2 x lvl 60's... playing since beta - and call me "casual"

    When I play, I play semi-hardcore, but at the moment, the game is a bit dull, so logging in is just to show some activity. Rift is better with more players.

    Your point is mute - The game begins at 60 - for most people anyway as is the case in WoW, and any other game that offers raiding.
    I don't care if you have 1 million level 60's. Your attitude is of the casual, which attitude is the only thing that matters when judging hardcore/casual. The game begins at level one, just because you and other casuals only care about shiny purples from the end game, doesn't mean anything.

    Please God Trion, keep your integrity, don't sell out like Blizzard has.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-23 at 11:58 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    If leveling is so important then why not have 200 levels? I mean the game can carry itself on the storyline and leveling experience alone right? Let's just delete the endgame and see how well it goes.
    Of course, like the Op you are being overly extreme. Leveling is important to learning your character. It should not be taken out, like end game shouldn't be taken out.

  4. #24
    Bloodsail Admiral Tychus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    The game begins at level one, just because you and other casuals only care about shiny purples from the end game, doesn't mean anything.
    Casuals only care about the endgame? But I thought casuals weren't involved in much endgame because they weren't hardcore enough?

    Talk about cognitive dissonance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Leveling is important to learning your character.
    Only in the rather nominal, and somewhat orthogonal sense. Learning a character doesn't take much time at all if one is keen to do so - and it certainly doesn't require any mandatory window dressing in the way of boorish "leveling", which doesn't even prepare you for endgame play anyways.

  5. #25
    Warchief theWocky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    I don't care if you have 1 million level 60's. Your attitude is of the casual, which attitude is the only thing that matters when judging hardcore/casual. The game begins at level one, just because you and other casuals only care about shiny purples from the end game, doesn't mean anything.
    Sigh. He still misses the point.

    See the last paragraph of my original post.

    I am amused as to why you think it's a big deal to let people get raiding as soon as possible. What difference does it make getting people to level 60 so that they can participate with the majority of the player base sooner?

    No-one said anything about down-tuning dungeons or raid content, so how will "purples" be easier exactly?

    Leveling teaches you nothing about playing your character in Dungeons, Raids. Nothing. One hour on a target dummy is all you need to get rotations right. Most smart people usually play a high burst dps / least-downtime class with the odd survival talents when leveling.

    All I am suggesting is a method for getting more people into the game at 60 as soon as possible. Blizzard was very progressive on this a year or two back by giving away a free level 80 with their Scroll of Resurrection. It worked for me - I came back for a month - that's $15 they wouldn't have had were it not for this deal.

    They can use normal dungeons to "learn" how to play healers, tanks, support.

    Are you that "proud" of your achievement in leveling to 60 that it is something you would put on your wall as some form of trophy? Really?

    So, I assume a "casual" is a bad thing? So, what is a "hardcore" then? A guy who has no job, just his gaming achievements to show for his success in life?

    I'm really puzzled as to why there is such disdain for that word "casual".

    Sad. Here I am thinking it's just a game... To some it is more than that, I guess.

    EDIT: As someone suggested, Free to Play to lvl 50 would be a good start.
    Last edited by theWocky; 2013-03-24 at 10:44 PM.
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Leveling is important to learning your character. It should not be taken out, like end game shouldn't be taken out.
    Yes, because the specs people use to level are the exact same specs people use in end-game. We all know that every single healer in raids leveled as a healer to learn how to heal. Every single tank leveled as a tank and practiced holding threat from themselves as they solo leveled on quests. Rogues, we see them all the time in raids with the same pet specs they used to level.

    Also, solo leveling via quests or doing content like Onslaughts and Hunt Rifts really teach you how to play with other in a dungeon or a raid. The activities are so similar it really prepares you for end-game.
    Last edited by Lathais; 2013-03-24 at 05:08 PM.
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  7. #27
    Pandaren Monk Klutzington's Avatar
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    Free level 50? I would hope not. No one would know how to play. Maybe ONE free level... 35 or 40? You can only pick once per account? That I could agree on. But no... not a lvl 50. Lvl 50 is too high.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Klutzington View Post
    Free level 50? I would hope not. No one would know how to play. Maybe ONE free level... 35 or 40? You can only pick once per account? That I could agree on. But no... not a lvl 50. Lvl 50 is too high.
    A free level 50 would be no worse off than anyone who was 50 when 1.11 came out. All the classes had to relearn everything as everything was redone. Just like someone who levels as a survivable DPS then switches to healer at 60. I suppose that noone knows how to heal or tank either since noone really levels as a healer or tank spec.
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Klutzington View Post
    Free level 50? I would hope not. No one would know how to play. Maybe ONE free level... 35 or 40? You can only pick once per account? That I could agree on. But no... not a lvl 50. Lvl 50 is too high.
    You really don't learn shit about how to properly play your class until you're near 60 anyways. The class 1-50 plays pretty differently than say, 58-60. In reality, if you haven't learned how to play your class in the time it takes you to get from 50-60, leveling from 1-50 isn't going to help at all. Couple that with the fact that the game never really teaches you how to play, and 1-50 becomes kind of a pointless endeavor if you want to play with others in the core part of the game.

  10. #30
    Nothing a player does solo or in the leveling process has any impact on the dynamics group play. Which if one doesn't engage in makes "learning your class" totally moot.

  11. #31
    I'm not missing your point, I just don't agree. I'm sorry that you can't force everyone to agree with you.

    If you don't understand why leveling is important, these words are lost on you. I'm sure many of you play WoW, and if you can't see the impact making leveling quicker and giving out free high levels has had, then maybe you should open your eyes.

    There should definitely be disdain added to some of the attitudes here. Wanting to skip the whole leveling experience, and only caring about getting those precious end game purples should be seen as a bad thing.

    Please please please Trion, keep your integrity and make a good, solid, well rounded game. Don't give out free max levels, don't make leveling insanely short and easy. Money should not be a good reason to change anything.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Zogarth View Post
    I recently tried out Rift because i wanted to play the late game. Leveling is just straight up horrible. I find it worse than WoW, .
    What?? I'm pretty sure WoW is the easiest MMO to level in - the only MMO that requires more afk than WoW is EVE.

  13. #33
    In classic Rift the leveling was completely trivial though. It took like /played 40 hours or something. It wasn't uncommon among players to have whole zones unfinished before dinging 50 in Rift.

    So that's a ~40 hour tutorial essentially for content that is 100% unrelated to those 40 hours.

    World of Warcraft and Rift have bimodal endgames. It's an absolute. Gameplay isn't opinion. It's quantifiable fact- the game of Rift as one engages in coordinated group content requires a set of skills and knowledge that is not present or demonstrated in the leveling up process.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2013-03-25 at 06:53 AM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    I'm not missing your point, I just don't agree. I'm sorry that you can't force everyone to agree with you.

    If you don't understand why leveling is important, these words are lost on you. I'm sure many of you play WoW, and if you can't see the impact making leveling quicker and giving out free high levels has had, then maybe you should open your eyes.

    There should definitely be disdain added to some of the attitudes here. Wanting to skip the whole leveling experience, and only caring about getting those precious end game purples should be seen as a bad thing.

    Please please please Trion, keep your integrity and make a good, solid, well rounded game. Don't give out free max levels, don't make leveling insanely short and easy. Money should not be a good reason to change anything.

    Also was saying free level 50, not free max level. Basically just skipping chocolate, not all the leveling. You would still need to level through the new areas, just not the old dead ones. I fail to see how leveling in the old zones, which are dead and have no people in them, has any advantage other than, "Everyone else had to, you should too." We are talking for a new player joining having at least doubled the time it takes them to get in to end-game, since 50-60 takes just as long as 1-50. Without doing something about the leveling process you have created a barrier to entry that is just too high for most people that are not already playing. To someone already playing it's not a big deal, but to a new player? Most will burn out before even reaching 60. Then you have a slowly shrinking population. I'd rather have more people to play with, not less.
    Last edited by Lathais; 2013-03-25 at 12:47 PM.
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  15. #35
    Dreadlord Primalthirst's Avatar
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    I haven't done 1-50 in a long time, but from memory it was fairly quick. 50-60 is a hell of a lot longer.

    Trion isn't going to allow people to completely bypass levels 1-50. That completely invalidates all of the content. It is invalid from an endgame point of view, but for some crazy kids that isn't everything

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Primalthirst View Post
    I haven't done 1-50 in a long time, but from memory it was fairly quick. 50-60 is a hell of a lot longer.

    Trion isn't going to allow people to completely bypass levels 1-50. That completely invalidates all of the content. It is invalid from an endgame point of view, but for some crazy kids that isn't everything
    Actually, from leveling an alt right now that is approaching the 40's, and from past experience. 1-50 is about the same as 50-60. Maybe it was quicker when you leveled as there were other people there and you could get 50s to come clear quest hubs from invasions easily. However, try it out now. By yourself in what feels like a dead game. So yeah, not 50-60 is a hell of a lot longer, it's the same. As a fresh player you literally have twice as much leveling to look forward to without some sort of reduction in the old world. If you want to play through, by all means. I currently am playing through it again, I am not saying to remove the option from those that want it. Leave it there, as a choice. However, it really is hurting the game more than helping leaving it there.
    Rift - Lathais@Deepwood - 60 Rogue / Arrieleah@Deepwood - 60 Mage
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  17. #37
    so you're saying they should give away the game for a month? and level 50 at that? other than hunt rifts, adventures, and slow leveling, there isn't much to check out. it gets boring within a month when you try to level to 60. i'll say this again. buy to play full price with full price expansion is a lot more attractive than a subscription, which will bring in a lot of people i think.

  18. #38
    Go back to my 3 options. That is one of the options yes, though not the best IMO.
    Rift - Lathais@Deepwood - 60 Rogue / Arrieleah@Deepwood - 60 Mage
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  19. #39
    We'll if Rift went free to play I might actually look into it. It didn't hook me much, but I do miss the pewtty graphics, and (Atleast when I played) the fun classes like my rogue.
    One reason for WoW decline I often hear is that its an old game and naturally people get bored with it. But TV is much older and people still watch that. Surely if a thing you once enjoyed keept staying fun, you would still use it?

  20. #40
    Only 1-50 should be F2P IMO. Not 50-60, nothing in SL. You should still have to pay for that.
    Rift - Lathais@Deepwood - 60 Rogue / Arrieleah@Deepwood - 60 Mage
    Check out this guide Guide for fresh 60's: The One Level 60 Guide - Updated for 2.5
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