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  1. #241
    The only real problem that I have with LFR is how players can get in to ToT LFR with a large portion of their gear being from heroic dungeons. THAT is a slap in the face. Average ilvl isn't enough anymore, they should expand it to "base-line ilvl for current BiS" in my opinion.

  2. #242
    Your thread title is incorrect; I thought LFR could get worse, a lot worse. And it has!

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    I'll also make one more attempt at explaining my (now quite overstretched) analogy:

    Heroic = winning the marathon
    Normal = trying to beat a particular time, your previous time, etc.
    LFR = finishing the marathon
    LFR w/ buff = being told you ran a marathon when you actually just ran a 10k, a 5k, or maybe even 1k race. Heck, you could have just stepped over the start line and sat down and the finish line would eventually come to you.
    Have you actually done LFR the last 2 weeks? I don't get it. I just don't see this huge difference between the buff and how it was before.

    If anything, I've seen way more people sticking around after a wipe and improving their play. Prime example is Ji-Kun. Have yet to 1-shot him on 3 different characters, but after the first wipe generally the nest team gets much better once they understand what they're doing. The people on the platform get better at gathering for quills and absorbing green blobs strategically.

    Pretty much every time I've wiped in ToT LFR, the group has gotten better as the next attempt improves on execution and mechanics. The buff just helps a lot in getting people to stick around who might otherwise bail and hope for a better group later. It was a great change that helps groups stick together and learn the encounters.

  4. #244
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    Oh and I'd like to point out that the fact that they don't need to spend time and resources on new 5-mans every patch means they can put much more effort into the raid. And ToT is pretty damn good so far.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I'd like to think they want to add such a system, and just haven't gotten it ready yet. The devs are rather competent game designers, all told, and the problem with LFR is rather obvious.
    Contribution-based rewards in a randomly organized group is counter to Blizzard's basic philosophy. Every person who meets the requirements for a LFD/LFR/world boss encounter will have the same chance to get a reward from the boss. All the changes Blizzard made to LFR/world bosses this expansion follow this idea.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteen View Post
    The only real problem that I have with LFR is how players can get in to ToT LFR with a large portion of their gear being from heroic dungeons. THAT is a slap in the face. Average ilvl isn't enough anymore, they should expand it to "base-line ilvl for current BiS" in my opinion.
    Apparently you funk math.

    Heroic dungeon gear is 463, you need >480 to enter ToT LFR. Sure the valour shado-pan assault neck will push you up a bit but it isn't much.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Apparently you funk math.

    Heroic dungeon gear is 463, you need >480 to enter ToT LFR. Sure the valour shado-pan assault neck will push you up a bit but it isn't much.
    Uh... the Shado-Pan Assault gear is ilvl 522. That means it can counter-balance a single ilvl 438 item OR two ilvl 459 items. So, assuming a player had some VP stocked up, they could easily be wearing 4-5 Heroic Items (of which I have seen in ToT).

    Next time you want to talk about "f(l)unking math," go try doing it yourself.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteen View Post
    Uh... the Shado-Pan Assault gear is ilvl 522. That means it can counter-balance a single ilvl 438 item OR two ilvl 459 items. So, assuming a player had some VP stocked up, they could easily be wearing 4-5 Heroic Items (of which I have seen in ToT).

    Next time you want to talk about "f(l)unking math," go try doing it yourself.
    We have 12-13 gear slots. One 522 ilvl gear will give you an extra 522-463=59 ilvl total. Avg it out, you get about +5 to you ilvl bring you to 468. A far cry from the 480 required. To get the rest of the shado-pan assault pieces you need to get to friendly which requires you to kill trash and bosses in ToT LFR which they can't enter. They will still need either crafted gear, IoT faction gear or 5.0 LFR gear to reach 480.

    So your majority heroic blues statement is utter BS.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    We have 12-13 gear slots. One 522 ilvl gear will give you an extra 522-463=59 ilvl total. Avg it out, you get about +5 to you ilvl bring you to 468. A far cry from the 480 required. To get the rest of the shado-pan assault pieces you need to get to friendly which requires you to kill trash and bosses in ToT LFR which they can't enter. They will still need either crafted gear, IoT faction gear or 5.0 LFR gear to reach 480.
    You left out the easiest cheesiest gearing mechanism: ilvl 476 honor gear.
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  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteen View Post
    Uh... the Shado-Pan Assault gear is ilvl 522. That means it can counter-balance a single ilvl 438 item OR two ilvl 459 items. So, assuming a player had some VP stocked up, they could easily be wearing 4-5 Heroic Items (of which I have seen in ToT).

    Next time you want to talk about "f(l)unking math," go try doing it yourself.
    he was talking Shado Pan, not Shado Pan assault. And there's no VP to be stocked up. 3k, and that's it. You can get 4 pieces if you buy the cheap stuff that's discounted. But that doesn't get you 480 ilevel.
    For the 522 gear you need rep, rep you get from the raid....
    And don't forget the cheap valor gear still requires the rep for GL and the other factions.. All in all, it is NOT possible in mostly heroic 5 man gear.
    You overlooking the truth however.... OFFSPEC..
    I can have an ilevel 510 geared main spec toon and get in LFR with it, wearing an average ilevel of 437... For all I need is putting on my shiny gear and queue, once inside I switch to my other gear.. Practical example: Epic Healer running for Tank OS.. The healer gear won't do shit, he's better off with the green gear.

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    You left out the easiest cheesiest gearing mechanism: ilvl 476 honor gear.
    Even with that ...

    He said "a large portion" of heroic blues, so at least 6 pieces. Lets be generous, the rest is 483 5.0 LFR + one 522 neck from the Shado-Pan Assault.

    463*6+483*5+522=5715

    5715/12=476.5

    You aren't getting into ToT LFR with that.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Even with that ...

    He said "a large portion" of heroic blues, so at least 6 pieces. Lets be generous, the rest is 483 5.0 LFR + one 522 neck from the Shado-Pan Assault.

    463*6+483*5+522=5715

    5715/12=476.5

    You aren't getting into ToT LFR with that.
    You can grind out full 476 gear in like 20 heroics. 5.2 "catchup" is only slightly slower than grinding HoT heroics for full 378 gear in DS.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by NeverStop View Post
    You can grind out full 476 gear in like 20 heroics. 5.2 "catchup" is only slightly slower than grinding HoT heroics for full 378 gear in DS.
    Err?!? How do you get 476 gear from heroics without the rep to buy from vendors?

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Err?!? How do you get 476 gear from heroics without the rep to buy from vendors?
    JP -> Honor conversion.

    But I think it's easier to hold your nose and run BGs and hope for good luck.

  15. #255
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    I can see peoples problems, but for me (as a raider, currently 3/12, soon to be 6 though, council is a bitch) its quite fun. Some upgrades and a bit of craic with the guild. Bare in mind I do lfr with about 5 guildies including a tank and healer usually.

  16. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeverStop View Post
    You can grind out full 476 gear in like 20 heroics. 5.2 "catchup" is only slightly slower than grinding HoT heroics for full 378 gear in DS.
    Well, it is a "catchup" mechanism. It kind of has to work in a reasonable fashion.

    Anyway, I was just countering the BS assertion you can wonder into ToT LFR in heroic blues. Also it would take you more than 20 heroics to get enough honour to get a full 476 set. 20 heroics will yield about 480*20 = 9600JP -> 6400HP. It would get you around 3-5 pieces of PVP gear. You can't even buy a weapon with that.

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