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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by sandmoth12 View Post
    I am sure I will get flamed and yelled down, but wow has become too complex and that is why it is losing subs. Rotations are the most complicated they have ever been for all classes, there are more utility abilities than ever before, even encounters are are the most complicated they have ever been.

    The beauty of past wow expansions was that they were difficult, but not complicated.
    I already flamed one today for making up numbers, so i won't do that to you, since i've reached the quota for today.
    But we had good 10 million at the start of MoP. We currently have 9.6 million.
    It's a few percent that has been lost, which isn't a lot, so your argument about wow losing subscribers due to it being complicated doesn't seem to hold
    Actually, if anything, it seems that people enjoy it, and you're just the minority.


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    Yeah, it was so difficult as a warlock in TBC spamming shadow bolt.
    Please! You had to apply a curse, and corruption too!
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  2. #242
    Herald of the Titans Geminiwolf's Avatar
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    Too complicated?? MoP made everything much MUCH easier. The rotations for classes are trimmed down making them less complicated than they were like the warlocks before Cataclysm. The bosses too, in raids and dungeons, are much easier too so not sure how you think everything is too complex.

    I don't know how much of the old WoW you played but if anything was complex it was old WoW (vanilla and BC). You compare how it was back then and how it is now and there's a huge difference in difficulty and complexity. To be honest I don't know how Blizzard can make it any less complex or easier than what it is now. WoW has become easier than it's ever been.
    “Ever wonder why ice cubes taste so boring? It’s cuz you make ‘em outta stupid water, you bimbo! Put some fruit juice in there and freeze it into ice cubes, and put THAT in your milk.”
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  3. #243
    With at least 30 keybinds necessary for each to class to play above an 1800 rating I don't know how the hell anyone can say this game isn't more complicated than ever.

    Blizzard keeps throwing more abilities at classes leading to homogenization as well as ridiculous amount of complexities in how you fight other players.

    PvE I'm not so sure about. I'm pretty sure that boss mechanics AND class rotations ON AVERAGE are more complex than ever despite what everyone's saying. Obviously not everyone is playing with a WotLK level kitty rotation but no one is playing WotLK arcane or even fury level rotations either.
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  4. #244
    so many people in this thread using single anecdotes to address the point. one guy says Assassination Rogues in 5.0 vs. Mu'ru, another person says 5.0 Feral vs. 2.1 SM/Ruin Warlocks. you can't boil it down to individual examples people.

    the truth of the matter is, WoW is different. it has evolved with player skill. WoW in the beginning had more talent points, more RNG and less mechanics to handle. as we have gotten better WoW has evolved to trim the fat from talent trees etc and now encounters are designed with a certain level of min/max required. 'complex' is too simple a word to describe it. WoW now demands more out of players in terms of micromanagement, but it's not really possible to measure that against Vanilla WoW because we've all developed higher skill levels since then.

    also: PvP is indisputably more complex now.
    I think i can give up choose talent in this level?
    because if i am not choose this level。 i can have 20% blood more than choosen..
    GREAT BLZ.
    warlock now became a guy use 5 level talents VS other 6 level.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Nivis View Post
    This.
    Like I said, even in Naxxramas, most boss mechanics were stupidly easy...what made them so hard was purely the fact that a single mistake could kill you/the whole raid.
    This, and that most people simply didn't know much about the class they are playing. At least not nearly to an extend as we see it today.

    I dare to say that heroic raiding today is by far more difficult than it was back then.
    It's just less time consuming, and people got more and more effective.

    Sunwell would like to have a word with you...its not more difficult...its simply back then bosses were either tuned as normal or heroic..there was no toggle...there was the boss...kill it or wipe to it...

  6. #246
    I agree with you to a certain point, but this is not the main reason imo. There's just a certain amount of people willing (or able) to play an MMO(RPG) on this planet and a lot of those people have been exhausted over the years and are fed up or just cannot (due to RL changes) commit the time they used to commit.

    WoW was one of the most shallow (not in terms of magnitude or anything, but you get my point) and most accessible MMO's out there at its prime and that probably was one of the reasons it is what it is. But the fact that it's getting more complex doesn't mean that's what is "killing" WoW.

  7. #247
    Mechagnome LolretKJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandmoth12 View Post
    Yay, so I can easily find a page that will teach me how to maximize my dps rotation. Now I get to go down load swing timers, proc watchers, dot timers, and others just to clog up my screen. It's un-fun man that's my argument.
    I have no idea what class you are playing, but I play affliction warlock and I've got two addons that give me all of my dot timers and take up maybe 5% of my screen. Every other addon i have is for looks or for convenience.

  8. #248
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    I say too many buttons. Pages of pages of situational abilities and similar abilites crowding the spellbook. In this aspect WoW is too complex, but there are other areas where it is too simple. Spellbook should be slimmed down. I think this is good video on complexity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVL4st0blGU

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    With at least 30 keybinds necessary for each to class to play above an 1800 rating I don't know how the hell anyone can say this game isn't more complicated than ever.

    Blizzard keeps throwing more abilities at classes leading to homogenization as well as ridiculous amount of complexities in how you fight other players.

    PvE I'm not so sure about. I'm pretty sure that boss mechanics AND class rotations ON AVERAGE are more complex than ever despite what everyone's saying. Obviously not everyone is playing with a WotLK level kitty rotation but no one is playing WotLK arcane or even fury level rotations either.
    There are al ot of reasons for this occuring. One of them is that WoW has this arms race with itself. Every expac people expect MORE dungeons, NEW talents, NEW skills, improvements to everything. So it gets more and more complex.

    I fill up about 30 buttons and I don't use anything like focus macros (just one) or targeting partners in arena or anything. PvP definitely takes more than raiding. You can probably raid with 12 right?

    There's definitely no such thing as the TBC warlock rotation. I remember in Vanilla when we couldn't even use special attacks because threat was so bad. I would backstab then SnD on my rogue and nothing else.

    TBC is brought up a lot as the best time for wow and I totally agree. I felt like there was complexity, but not too much. Bosses had mechanics and were hard, but weren't unforgivable.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by vertex705 View Post
    I say too many buttons. Pages of pages of situational abilities and similar abilites crowding the spellbook. In this aspect WoW is too complex, but there are other areas where it is too simple. Spellbook should be slimmed down. I think this is good video on complexity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVL4st0blGU
    I think we have to cut Bliz a break on this. They tried really hard to cut down abilities--but it just proved a bit harder than they could have imagined. I suspect they really, really need to combine talents into one. No reason for rogues to have a sunder-skill; just include it in as some kind of specific attacking ability. I'm sure warriors are the same way (although prot may want it, I don't know).

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by bany View Post
    ... ..and manage threat
    You make the dead tank inside of me cry out in joy one last time. (I quit tanking during Cata after worrying about threat was thrown out the window)

  12. #252
    So I come on MMO-Champion and the top post I see under "recent blue posts" is a response to a thread called "world of casualcraft" where someone is going on about how the game is too dumbed down and simple.

    I look over and the most recent forum post on MMO-Champion is "Wow has become far to complex."

    Blizzard just can't win.

  13. #253
    Well I don't know what the OP is on about really, but I do kind of have a headache trying to think of what I should do in the game each day because there's so damn much I could do!

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmoth12 View Post
    The beauty of past wow expansions was that they were difficult, but not complicated.
    Not really. Most rotations were relatively simple, a few were hideously complex. Because they were badly designed. Nothing about PVE DPS rotations has ever been difficult, just annoying, tedious or frustrating.

    A number of classes have too many abilities on their action bars (for me the worst is my Hunter, almost every Hunter talent was a whole new on-use ability and/or cooldown!). Blizzard keeps mentioning that they tried to trim but every ability is precious to someone so they weren't that successful. They might be more ruthless in future.
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  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abysal View Post
    So I come on MMO-Champion and the top post I see under "recent blue posts" is a response to a thread called "world of casualcraft" where someone is going on about how the game is too dumbed down and simple.

    I look over and the most recent forum post on MMO-Champion is "Wow has become far to complex."

    Blizzard just can't win.
    There are multiple aspects in WoW. It is entirely possible that some can be too simple and others too complex. Read the points both OP's make- they're discussing different parts of the game.

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by vertex705 View Post
    There are multiple aspects in WoW. It is entirely possible that some can be too simple and others too complex. Read the points both OP's make- they're discussing different parts of the game.
    Doesn't really matter, there's plenty times where 1 group has complained about something being too simple and another has complained about that exact same thing being too complex in the past few years with WoW.

  16. #256
    Herald of the Titans Nadev's Avatar
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    I think the game is more complex. Doesn't mean it's necessarily harder.

    Take things like reforging, gemming, weekly caps, etc. There are a lot more factors in the game now to distinguish good and dedicated players.
    Last edited by Nadev; 2013-03-26 at 01:56 AM.
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  17. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    QFT, except for the first part "increased rotational complexity". All classes/specs had their "rotations" dumbed down in MoP, which is a good thing. You used some rich language there (immersion, herculean, awareness, mandated, overzealous, shear, dauntingly, incentivised, interdependent, gated, myriad, nebulous)
    Yeah, fair point about the rotations being simplified in MoP. I just meant in comparison to vanilla and only in combination with the other factors in that same dot point. I like having more to do with my rotation, but I generally wish Blizzard would pick either 2-button rotations and complex encounters or complex rotations and simple encounters. Personal preference.

    And yep, that's just the way I actually talk :-P
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