I don't think the classes are too complex. I do think the levelling path and then breaking into the endgame is too complex though.
Last edited by Theodon; 2013-03-24 at 10:14 AM.
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Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
I'd quit along time ago if things didn't catch up.
Don't get my wrong, I can talk for hours and days, maybe even weeks about how awesome molten core, bwl, aq and naxx were, and how tbc was super awesome too.
But it'll only last so long. Frostbolt was the only ability used for dps back then, until you could afford to go fire in late aq/naxx, then it was mostly fireballs with the odd pyro.
Boss fights were mostly one trick ponies and fairly easy to learn.
These days there's always room to improve, thing to work on and get better at, you have tresholds to meet and numbers meassure yourself against. The game has simply grown. I doubt many people would've been around if all it was to the class was bolt and ball spams, and just taking in the scenery, that part gets old really fast.
I think people are jumping on the OPs words, not the idea/concept they are trying to get across.
Difficult could mean various things.
Could just mean tedious and/or becoming less forgiving of mistakes.
Would you call the overload of trash difficult or tedious (trash can be fun if designed right)? or sometimes the tedious and necessity to be perfect over many continuous hours can become difficult for some?
Perfect pulls every time. 25 people performing flawlessly. Fights that have you jumping through hoops (sometimes literally) for 10-20 minutes. Priorities/rotations that need precision execution to perform at the top, with a game with variable latency. Fights designed around the assumption you'll have boss mods, even if top end players don't need them; hell, even class buffs/debuffs/priorities/procs nearly needing addons to be at your best. Macros and many, many keybinds.
None of it is truly difficult ... compared to real life stuff ... but it adds up to a large intertwined set of complexities that is actually against the roots of WoW. It was the simpler, less grindy EverQuest. Now, it is becoming very complex, and very grindy. Some love it, some hate it ... each are right for their own opinion.
Comes down to, if you are having fun, then great, if not, you unsub. The OP is theorizing that the ones leaving, a decent % is because of the increase in intensity and dedication required to perform even menial tasks.
I agree challenge should be there. Things shouldn't necessarily be as simple as arcane mages were somewhere in wrath and BC locks; 1-2 button heroes. The fights shouldn't be patchwerk either ... Maybe it is some just getting tired and worn out from the intensity, and need to take a step back, let new blood take over.
I know I burned myself out on dailies. Probably around the 6 week mark. None of the rares I encountered were hard, though soloing the one in Dread Wastes with all the adds by the water at 89 was both fun and challenging. But I was also tired of the changes to classes, even some for the better. Two of my favorite classes and the specific specs I loved to play were redesigned, one from the healing homogenization in cata, and another, just because the other two specs were getting love, I guess they figured they screw with it. That killed the love for my main ... and my main alt. With that, my love for the game.
I'm happy others are enjoying all the changes ... but it isn't the complexity that drove me away, it was the narrow paths, all the limitations, restrictions, my freedom of choice to have fun how I want, in the xpac touted for being about choice, was it. Once they switched to LFD and farmable tokens ... I can't go back to these artificial caps. If I want to play the hell out of the game this week, and not play next, then I should be able to farm 10k VP this week if I want. If I want to grind out a single rep in a few days, I should have that choice ... not have a gated, Ogri'la style rep system. If I want to kite a world boss somewhere, like in tanaris, it shouldn't be tethered ... let us create a dynamic environment, even if they don't have the passion to any longer. GMs should be in game, dropping bosses on capitals wiping out people. Don't take away group quests and class quests. Class quests are perfect for those wanting to go deeper into the lore, and gives you more attachment to your toon, especially if done at proper levels. All that stuff gives the game character and personalization.
The current game isn't bad ... but it has lots its flavor for me ... not because it is hard or complex ... but because it is tedious and simple with other systems over done (like tons of trash) just to make it appear there is more there than it is.
---------- Post added 2013-03-24 at 06:31 AM ----------
My guild is having a (kinda casual) progression, but it's more work than fun. When we really want to party, we invite *everyone* we know, even the fresh 90 parents with a baby on their knee, and queue the new LFR while chatting on ventrilo and having a drink (LFR is way more cool when 3/4 of the raid are friends ) .
Last edited by aSynchro; 2013-03-24 at 10:42 AM.
Only things that were complex was when you had to keep DoTs with 100% uptime BUT at same time you couldnt just refresh them at random times..you had to wait last ticks etc. Like warlocks had to take account haunts travel time, lag and unstable affli's cast, last tick of curse. Thankfully corruption refreshed itself with haunt. With some fights this was bit painful - if you wanted 100% uptime on 2+ targets it was craaazyeh. But damn satisfying.
Now dots dont really have that so meh.
"when women wear makeup they’re basically lying to us"
Well, I don’t see why women are being blamed if man is stupid enough to really think they have red and gold eyelids.
---------- Post added 2013-03-24 at 06:47 AM ----------
Easy to learn, hard to master.
As you can see...anyone can just do..something in a 5 man or LFraid and succeed. Gets harder in normal raids. You need to have mastered your class for hardmodes...and high lv pvp.
Other than that OP, your claim would have been sufficient without the "and that is why WoW is losing subs" addition. Frankly, there are just too many people who are not Blizzard, who are not game designers, who do not work in the industry, who have no economical traing, yet still think they alone know why WoW loses subs. If you ask them why, it is because of "common sense"...
I can agree with the OP to a certain extent. I personally find my Muti Rogue the most fun to play because it doesn't have a lot of tedious things going on with it. I've found that I like my Affliction lock the least, not because its hard or even really complex, its just feels tedious and has for a while.
Healing is one of those things that is probably more complicated, but then again in Vanilla and TBC you had lots of downranking, much more mana management other things going on ( for most specs). It was much more of mind game than a reflex game.
Tanking is definitely easier, although I think its probably more complex due to the nature of boss fights these days + ablities. Its less tedious but there is more going on at times.
I tend to think that most specs at this point and time aren't overly complex, however that doesn't mean there aren't some things that are still tedious and not a ton of fun.
I think the OP has a point tho. I miss the days that you could do this...
---------- Post added 2013-03-24 at 06:55 AM ----------
I think this is a good example of what I claimed earlier.
On the obvious and easy level, you apply your diseases as a Frost DK, and use certain abilities as runes and runic power is available and a passive ability procs.
On the more complex part there is point 4. "Mastering your Frost DK".
I don't think dps rotations in wow could be considered difficult, they are all fairly easy to learn. They are however boring and tedious, largely due to the stupid amount of ability cool downs in place.
It simply isn't fun spending a large portion of your time auto attacking because all your abilities are still on cool down. There needs to be a better mix of heavy hitting abilities with a cool down, and spam-able filler attacks so that it feels as if you are actually doing something all of the time. Of course this varies from class to class, but pretty much all classes could do with a rework along with removal of some of the ability bloat.
It's not harder than you make it.