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  1. #21
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    That GPU should crush WoW no problem at all unless something is wrong with it.
    To be clear, that GPU should not 'crush wow'. It simply wouldn't be the bottleneck causing issues. A 7990 and an i3 would likely run worse than a 7770 and an overclocked i5.
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  2. #22
    Stood in the Fire mojo6912's Avatar
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    Yeah that's what I mean. It is more than adequate.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    To be clear, that GPU should not 'crush wow'. It simply wouldn't be the bottleneck causing issues. A 7990 and an i3 would likely run worse than a 7770 and an overclocked i5.
    Are you sure about that? An i3's WoW performance is pretty close to an i5's, but a 7770 is no where near the 7870 required to run WoW @ Ultra.

  4. #24
    Bloodsail Admiral Killora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    Are you sure about that? An i3's WoW performance is pretty close to an i5's, but a 7770 is no where near the 7870 required to run WoW @ Ultra.
    This is a very poor illustration of your point. It's a fraps runthrough.

    The GPU benchmarks you linked also have no Wow benchmark on it?

    Obviously we know the 7770 is nowhere near 7870 performance. But WoW is overall not a very GPU intensive game. A 7770 would run WoW on Ultra tolerably, maybe with shadows on high.

    Anyway, the point he was illustrating is you can't just shove a awesome GPU in something and expect it to run great. a 7870 isn't going to "crush" WoW. Play a game from 2005 or earlier with that same card. That's crushing it. His statement is true.

    It's not exactly news that WoW is a CPU intensive game and requires a good CPU to run smoothly as well as a decent GPU on higher settings. We'll not delve into low settings as you could run WoW on low with...well, a very bad computer.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Killora View Post
    This is a very poor illustration of your point. It's a fraps runthrough.
    A CPU test done in CPU bound conditions (overkill GPU), it should scale into 25m raids no problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killora View Post
    The GPU benchmarks you linked also have no Wow benchmark on it?
    Does it matter? Within an architecture, we don't expect the relative performance between the two GPUs to change from game to game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killora View Post
    Obviously we know the 7770 is nowhere near 7870 performance. But WoW is overall not a very GPU intensive game. A 7770 would run WoW on Ultra tolerably, maybe with shadows on high.
    Prove it. Its one thing to say that WoW isn't GPU intensive. Its a completely other thing to assert that a 7770 is where the GPU plateau occurs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killora View Post
    Anyway, the point he was illustrating is you can't just shove a awesome GPU in something and expect it to run great. a 7870 isn't going to "crush" WoW. Play a game from 2005 or earlier with that same card. That's crushing it. His statement is true.
    What I'm saying is, an i3 isn't all that bad for WoW. My statement is more correct as the increased capability of a i5 OC isn't going to outweigh the crippling effect of a 7770. Fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killora View Post
    It's not exactly news that WoW is a CPU intensive game and requires a good CPU to run smoothly as well as a decent GPU on higher settings. We'll not delve into low settings as you could run WoW on low with...well, a very bad computer.
    You're completely missing the point. The key to running WoW with minimal bottlenecking is to achieve balance between CPU and GPU. Going too far into GPU land is bad and this is known. What you two missed is that going too far into CPU land is also a bad idea.

  6. #26
    Stood in the Fire mojo6912's Avatar
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    I used poor wording. I was just trying to assure the OP that his GPU was more than powerful enough because he expressed concern about his GPU. I know WoW is a CPU intensive game was the OP has a 3570K so I didn't even bother bringing that up.

  7. #27
    Bloodsail Admiral Killora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    A CPU test done in CPU bound conditions (overkill GPU), it should scale into 25m raids no problem.
    A CPU bound situation that benefits exponentially from more cores. I wasn't telling you were wrong in your assessment that an i3 isn't bad for WoW. Quite the opposite in fact, i was simply saying that benchmark doesn't express your point, in fact, it degrades it.



    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    Does it matter? Within an architecture, we don't expect the relative performance between the two GPUs to change from game to game.
    Of course it matters. Every game isn't going to run the same framerates regardless of architecture. The 7770 may run WoW at 40 FPS, and the 7870 a 60+. The architecture difference is still there, but the framerates are still acceptable as i said.



    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    Prove it. Its one thing to say that WoW isn't GPU intensive. Its a completely other thing to assert that a 7770 is where the GPU plateau occurs.
    Link

    Best i can do. I used to run WoW (i don't play anymore) On my 6770 (a decent bit worse than a 7770) at ultra (sans AA) with a fairly constant 60 FPS. Except for in raids, naturally.



    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    What I'm saying is, an i3 isn't all that bad for WoW. My statement is more correct as the increased capability of a i5 OC isn't going to outweigh the crippling effect of a 7770. Fact.
    You're correct in saying that an I3 isn't bad for WoW, but incorrect in saying an I5 OC isn't going to help. Ignore the fact that Chazus was simply illustrating that a CPU/GPU balance is necessary, as you've stated.

    In raids, you're going to see a difference with that I5 OC over than i3. 7770 or not. A 7770 is not a terrible card, especially not for WoW



    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    You're completely missing the point. The key to running WoW with minimal bottlenecking is to achieve balance between CPU and GPU. Going too far into GPU land is bad and this is known. What you two missed is that going too far into CPU land is also a bad idea.
    See above. This is what Chazus was essentially saying. You need CPU/GPU balance in order to achieve minimal bottlenecking. He was correct in saying a I3 with a 7990 is going to run worse than a 7770 with an I5. An I3 is going to have a very hard time feeding information to that 7990 in any game. Let alone WoW Raids.

  8. #28
    High Overlord Ninjaturtle's Avatar
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    Could even be a bad card, I have terrible luck with graphics cards and building computers everyone time I make one the first card I get is a dud. I got a EVGA GTX 560 and its my second one the first one ran well then degraded over the first 2 weeks to not being able to run games.

    Check out shadows for some reason shadows in Blizzard games to me seem to have the highest fps issues.

  9. #29
    Moderator Cilraaz's Avatar
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    I have a fairly similar setup (P67 Extreme4 instead of the Z77, i5 2500k instead of the 3570k, but also a 7870 XT) and see a good bit higher framerate than you're describing. If you're not overclocking, it might be the fact that my 2500k is at 4.6GHz versus the 3570k at 3.4-3.8GHz, but the CPU shouldn't make that large of a difference in open world situations, especially old world. Here's some rough numbers that I usually see:

    Kalimdor/Eastern Kingdoms/TBC/WotLK open world: >100 fps
    Orgrimmar/Stormwind: 60-100 fps, depending on congestion and server (I play on Aerie Peak and Rexxar, which are drastically different populations)
    Pandaria open world: 50-80 fps, depending on zone
    Isle of Thunder: 45-70 fps
    Raid (in combat): 40-60 fps

    My settings are Ultra, minus Shadow Quality (high) and Partical Density (high), 8xMultisampling, 1080p fullscreen window, and using the DX11 API. I'm using driver version 13.2 with App Profiles version 12.11 CAP 2. I haven't had a chance to try out 13.3 beta drivers yet. I have no application specific settings in CCC and all of my non-app specific settings are default.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Killora View Post
    A CPU bound situation that benefits exponentially from more cores. I wasn't telling you were wrong in your assessment that an i3 isn't bad for WoW. Quite the opposite in fact, i was simply saying that benchmark doesn't express your point, in fact, it degrades it.
    I don't even.. what?

    WoW has 3 balanced threads. An i3 has 2 full power threads and 2 gimped ones (30-50%). This means that compared to an i5, an i3 should perform at 2.3/3 to 2.5/3 or 77% to 83% performance.

    This is in stark contrast to a 7770 operating at 50% of a 7870's performance. Whats worse is the potential presence of a VRAM bottleneck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killora View Post
    Of course it matters. Every game isn't going to run the same framerates regardless of architecture. The 7770 may run WoW at 40 FPS, and the 7870 a 60+. The architecture difference is still there, but the framerates are still acceptable as i said.
    You're missing the point. 7770 runs X FPS on average over 20 games. A 7870 runs 2X FPS average over 20 games. We expect this 1 to 2 ratio be roughly constant in every game that is experiencing a GPU bottleneck, bar extraneous conditions (like VRAM bottleneck).

    Quote Originally Posted by Killora View Post
    Link

    Best i can do. I used to run WoW (i don't play anymore) On my 6770 (a decent bit worse than a 7770) at ultra (sans AA) with a fairly constant 60 FPS. Except for in raids, naturally.
    1) Cataclysm Benchmark

    2) FP benchmark - while FP benchmarks allow you to compare between graphics cards, you can't use them to assert that you'll get good frames in game. Raids are the time when FPS is the most critical. Outside of raids, whether you have 15 FPS or 60 FPS doesn't really matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killora View Post
    You're correct in saying that an I3 isn't bad for WoW, but incorrect in saying an I5 OC isn't going to help. Ignore the fact that Chazus was simply illustrating that a CPU/GPU balance is necessary, as you've stated.
    You have no idea what I'm saying. I'm saying that going to an i3 over an i5 isn't nearly as bad as going from a 7870 (or 7990) to a 7770. This is the entire subtle point I'm trying to make. No more no less.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killora View Post
    In raids, you're going to see a difference with that I5 OC over than i3. 7770 or not. A 7770 is not a terrible card, especially not for WoW
    A 7770 is a terrible card for WoW if you're running with any CPU as powerful as or more powerful than a i3-3220 because thats a GPU limited situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killora View Post
    See above. This is what Chazus was essentially saying. You need CPU/GPU balance in order to achieve minimal bottlenecking. He was correct in saying a I3 with a 7990 is going to run worse than a 7770 with an I5. An I3 is going to have a very hard time feeding information to that 7990 in any game. Let alone WoW Raids.
    You've been repeatedly misinterpreting my words. What I'm trying to say is that Chazus put the CPU/GPU balance way too far in CPU land which is just as bad as putting the CPU/GPU balance way too far in GPU land. In either scenario, you're wasting money and performance due to a bottleneck in either the CPU or the GPU.

  11. #31
    Cant wait to get my comp running well like this

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