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  1. #1

    Resto stats when 2 healing ToT

    Hey guys,

    We are only 4/12 in 10 normal right now (but real life has prevented us from being super consistent in our raid schedule), and I used to 2 heal with a Pally, now it will be a Disc priest. Basically just seeing what others that are two healing most of the bosses are doing in stat priority. I generally use the crit build, with about 50% mastery. I'm very aware that the fights are not tuned to our "intended" healing style, but I'm wondering what others are doing to be most successful 2 healing this content. I do know there are going to be some fights where 3 healing is preferable and or necessary....

  2. #2
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
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    Since I got 2pc, I grabbed 3764 haste... up until a weak ago, I just had whatever haste I couldn't get rid off. Both works well, but I really like that extra totem tick + set bonus now. And I'm still sitting at 17%+ crit. I used to have a bit over 20%, I think before I went the other route. That said, I gem for spirit and reforge for crit after my desired haste rating, wherever that may be at that point in time.

    I'm not paying attention to where my mastery is sitting at. I just have the mastery that's on the gear after reforging 40% of it to crit, sitting at some 44% or so right now (can't check, logged as elemental spec).

    I usually 2-heal with a paladin, rarely with our druid (he goes boomy in most 2-healing cases).
    Last edited by Seriss; 2013-03-26 at 03:55 PM.

  3. #3
    Just go all out crit and aim for reasonable haste caps without losing too much crit (haste caps @ http://www.totemspot.com/images/hast...hamanresto.gif).

    As far as mastery go, I don't understand why people keep talking about 50% being some kind of "mastery-cap" or something. I've never paid the slightest attention to my mastery, and I don't see any reason to do so.

  4. #4
    Scarab Lord Puupi's Avatar
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    I'm healing 10 man heroic with full crit gems, reforged crit>spirit>mastery>haste. It works fine, decent output and very good regen (10,5k crit 10,2k spirit 50% mastery last time I checked). I might change to a bit more spirit>haste>crit oriented build once I get t15 bonuses.
    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." - H. L. Mencken

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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by SkyOfEternity View Post
    Just go all out crit and aim for reasonable haste caps without losing too much crit (haste caps @ http://www.totemspot.com/images/hast...hamanresto.gif).

    As far as mastery go, I don't understand why people keep talking about 50% being some kind of "mastery-cap" or something. I've never paid the slightest attention to my mastery, and I don't see any reason to do so.
    Could anybody actually explain the 50% mastery thing? I have seen this all the time as well. I am at 21% crit (reforge full crit) 3110 haste (I have reforgelite to 871 haste but this is just how it pans out) and 45% mastery, 13000 spirit unbuffed. I should probably get to that next haste breakpoint since I am so close. But I am getting pretty frustrated. Even with the 20% HR CH EL buff we had some serious trouble last night 2 healing Maegara. Tanks take alot of damage but I am usually out of mana between going into the 6th head. I dont know why my mana gets consumed so fast, maybe its the ridiculous damage.

    I dont know if crit is worth it that much anymore, getting alot of resurgance procss but still oom. I know Mag isn't normally 2 healed but the fight dies so slow when 3 healing it, killing the heads faster seems to cut away alot of raid dmg, but tank dmg is pretty insane.

    I'm definently interested to hear more 10man resto shaman stat priorities.

  6. #6
    Until everyone in a given raid group is in good gear, I don't think it's worth going 2 healers on Megaera. Yes, makes the later non-rampage phases (Where cinders + acid rain mounts up to be more dangerous than rampage phases) shorter, but it's also very demanding on mana. 3-healing the fight you easily have a combined HPS of 220-250k average, meaning higher spikes. 2 healers can definitely do 220-250k hps, but it can be hard to maintain that output mana-wise. It's not just a question of your gear, but a question of better DPS gear making the fight shorter.

  7. #7
    Scarab Lord Puupi's Avatar
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    @zaneosak:
    You should 3 heal Megaera if you are progressing it. Unleashed Fury is the go-to talent for that encounter, if you are healing the tanks (breath and unleash both have 15 second CD).

    I'm not really sure about that 50% mastery thing either, basically I'm just trying to minimize my mastery which usually leads to about 46-52%. I don't think you should worry about it so much

    Try full crit gems and reforge crit>spirit>haste>mastery. That's what I do and atleast for me it works better regen/hps-wise than going with spirit gems and spirit>crit>haste>mastery.
    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." - H. L. Mencken

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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Sevyvia View Post
    Until everyone in a given raid group is in good gear, I don't think it's worth going 2 healers on Megaera. Yes, makes the later non-rampage phases (Where cinders + acid rain mounts up to be more dangerous than rampage phases) shorter, but it's also very demanding on mana. 3-healing the fight you easily have a combined HPS of 220-250k average, meaning higher spikes. 2 healers can definitely do 220-250k hps, but it can be hard to maintain that output mana-wise. It's not just a question of your gear, but a question of better DPS gear making the fight shorter.
    I guess this is more of a personnel issue then. We don't really have a 3rd healer. We recently replaced a player and it leaves us with pretty much no 3rd healer. We have a shadow priest who is going to try to be that 3rd healer when needed but he has never played a healer before and we tried to have him just smite spam last night as a 3rd healer but it didnt work out , he was oom by head 5 and I dont blame him, he's got no healing gear and no experience. I guess I will have to get him trained and actually healable. We are just used to making the 2 healing work on pretty much any boss in t14 and I thought we could do it here

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    @zaneosak:
    You should 3 heal Megaera if you are progressing it. Unleashed Fury is the go-to talent for that encounter, if you are healing the tanks (breath and unleash both have 15 second CD).

    I'm not really sure about that 50% mastery thing either, basically I'm just trying to minimize my mastery which usually leads to about 46-52%. I don't think you should worry about it so much

    Try full crit gems and reforge crit>spirit>haste>mastery. That's what I do and atleast for me it works better regen/hps-wise than going with spirit gems and spirit>crit>haste>mastery.
    This actually peaked my interest.
    Could you describe how you ended up transitioning to crit from spirit and what values were you working with before the transition? I'm at the same level of gear and relative progression, and I find that I do have a bit too much spirit, but can convert it into productive hps most of the time.
    Could you by chance provide some HC Megaera parses to see how we compare on a traditional setup healing fight?
    Also, what would be your thoughts on the slight crit devaluation because of our 4piece?
    Greatly appreciated!
    Healing with different classes since Vanilla
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  10. #10
    Scarab Lord Puupi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blindlad View Post
    This actually peaked my interest.
    Could you describe how you ended up transitioning to crit from spirit and what values were you working with before the transition? I'm at the same level of gear and relative progression, and I find that I do have a bit too much spirit, but can convert it into productive hps most of the time.
    Could you by chance provide some HC Megaera parses to see how we compare on a traditional setup healing fight?
    Also, what would be your thoughts on the slight crit devaluation because of our 4piece?
    Greatly appreciated!
    I used full crit gear in our T14 ToeS progress aswell (9k crit, 7k spirit). Then 5.2 came and I somehow abandoned my crit stacking and tried various things (spirit+haste , spirit+mastery, spirit+crit, balanced ratings etc.) and after all those tests I ended up going back to full crit. The reason I don't like those max spirit builds is that my HPS is pretty weak (overall the HPS is the same, but for those bursty snapheals the heals are like a wet noodle). Once you start stacking crit, you can rely on the crits quite a bit; especially regenwise. Spamming Healing Wave with high crit is decent HPS (keeps the tank's hp bar filled and a good snapheal for low damage phases) and a great regen-tool. Chain Heal is very mana efficient with high crit, too. Sometimes you get 4 crits in a Chain Heal, which makes the whole spell free and heal quite a lot.

    In T14 the only downside in crit build was Healing Rain usage. If you needed to keep it up 24/7, your regen couldn't handle it. But as we all know, Healing Rain was rarely used in T14.

    In T15 there's quite a bit more HR usage, but our gear is better now too (makes up for that low spirit). The Healing Rain mana cost reduction helps in that situation, too. So basically as long as you are casting anything else than Healing Rain and Healing Surge, in my book crit is just as good regen stat as spirit.

    About my stats in different builds (pretty rough numbers):

    I think I had 13,5-14k spirit and 8k haste build. Fun to play, but terrible mana effiency.

    I did some 13k spirit 10k mastery tests aswell. Awful for the most part, might work in some scenarios (mastery is good for HST, HTT and CH, not much for else).

    I tried 13k spirit and 8k crit, it works fine but I really want to push that crit as high as possible to minimize the RNG and maximize HPS. Therefore I went back to crit gems.

    I had 10,8k crit and 10,5k spirit yesterday, but I got 2 new items (1 with haste, 1 with mastery) and I had to ditch my old spirit+crit items lowering my current stats to about 9,9k crit and 10,8k spirit. I don't have any mana issues (by any I mean any issues I wouldn't have with some other build, too) with my current gear.


    EDIT: Forgot to answer couple of your questions. Can't show you parses, because our logs are private. We haven't killed Megaera HC yet, hopefully we do tonight I did have 93k HPS on Council and 83k HPS on Iron Qon. Both heroic and pretty standard healing encounters.

    About the 4pc crit devaluation: I will try to go with spirit+haste setup when I get 4pc. If it doesn't work I will try spirit+mastery. If that doesn't work either I wil go back to crit (even though it is devalued against other secondary stats, crit itself isn't any worse than before).
    Last edited by Puupi; 2013-03-28 at 03:04 PM.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    EDIT: Forgot to answer couple of your questions. Can't show you parses, because our logs are private. We haven't killed Megaera HC yet, hopefully we do tonight I did have 93k HPS on Council and 83k HPS on Iron Qon. Both heroic and pretty standard healing encounters.

    About the 4pc crit devaluation: I will try to go with spirit+haste setup when I get 4pc. If it doesn't work I will try spirit+mastery. If that doesn't work either I wil go back to crit (even though it is devalued against other secondary stats, crit itself isn't any worse than before).
    A pity on logs, really wanted to delve in line-by-line to compare yours to mine, since we run the exact same healing setups with opposing styles. : )

    As for Megaera - we've put a few hours on it last reset and nothing seemed particularly hard even before the buff we received, sadly we were running out of time, so couldn't finish that, or try Qon. Here's the cd plan we were using that worked fine, hopefully that be of some assistance to help you spend less time there. : )

    As for 4piece - since I am actually interested in trying this playstyle I'll go buy some soothing gems and do some direct comparisons bettwen spi-crit and crit and post them around sunday.
    Healing with different classes since Vanilla
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  12. #12
    Scarab Lord Puupi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blindlad View Post
    A pity on logs, really wanted to delve in line-by-line to compare yours to mine, since we run the exact same healing setups with opposing styles. : )

    As for Megaera - we've put a few hours on it last reset and nothing seemed particularly hard even before the buff we received, sadly we were running out of time, so couldn't finish that, or try Qon. Here's the cd plan we were using that worked fine, hopefully that be of some assistance to help you spend less time there. : )

    As for 4piece - since I am actually interested in trying this playstyle I'll go buy some soothing gems and do some direct comparisons bettwen spi-crit and crit and post them around sunday.
    Megaera down 120,5k HPS. No loot
    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." - H. L. Mencken

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  13. #13
    Megaera down 120,5k HPS. No loot
    Are you guys using hidden logs or something?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    @zaneosak:
    Try full crit gems and reforge crit>spirit>haste>mastery. That's what I do and atleast for me it works better regen/hps-wise than going with spirit gems and spirit>crit>haste>mastery.
    Interesting thoughts. I currently heal with a disc priest, at 2/12H so far. I've played with just about every forge I could. Lately I was trying the intellect route using brilliants/potent topaz/int/spirit for RYB sockets with burning meta. My healing's definitely increased at the cost of spirit, but I've always wanted to try the pure critical route.

    What's your full raid buffed critical %? Playing around on my napkin math, I can attain around 33-34% critical with everything. I did manage to catch your Jin'rokh video and you did some pretty impressive numbers compared to my own for that fight. Do you heal with a disc priest at all? I went crit early on, especially in normal modes because my raid never falls low enough for mastery to take any sort of effect. I tried last week with a mastery build and was depressed to find out how bad it really was.

    Also curious to know what your resurgence returns are with that critical %. I'm assuming you're going pure crit in yellows, potent in orange, and crit/spi blues?

  15. #15
    Scarab Lord Puupi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkyOfEternity View Post
    Are you guys using hidden logs or something?
    Yes our logs are hidden. I'm uploading my Megaera video to youtube at the moment though.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-29 at 10:47 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by gunner007 View Post
    Interesting thoughts. I currently heal with a disc priest, at 2/12H so far. I've played with just about every forge I could. Lately I was trying the intellect route using brilliants/potent topaz/int/spirit for RYB sockets with burning meta. My healing's definitely increased at the cost of spirit, but I've always wanted to try the pure critical route.

    What's your full raid buffed critical %? Playing around on my napkin math, I can attain around 33-34% critical with everything. I did manage to catch your Jin'rokh video and you did some pretty impressive numbers compared to my own for that fight. Do you heal with a disc priest at all? I went crit early on, especially in normal modes because my raid never falls low enough for mastery to take any sort of effect. I tried last week with a mastery build and was depressed to find out how bad it really was.

    Also curious to know what your resurgence returns are with that critical %. I'm assuming you're going pure crit in yellows, potent in orange, and crit/spi blues?
    I didn't actually have crit gems in that Jin'rokh video. But I have crit gems on my Council and Megaera video. Making the Council video public now, it was hidden for some time (and it's a pre-buff video). Uploading that Megaera video right now.

    I use crit gems for yellow sockets, crit+spirit for blues, int+crit for reds. My raidbuffed crit is around 34%. Resurgence gave me 499127 mana in 7:23 fight on Megaera.

    Our setup is disc priest, resto shaman and resto druid. Druid is the 3rd healer, so when we two-heal it's me and the priest.
    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." - H. L. Mencken

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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    Megaera down 120,5k HPS. No loot
    Gz, we aren't raiding till Sunday but will definitely catch up : )
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  17. #17
    Stood in the Fire Redtusk's Avatar
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    The only problem with the 3764 cap is that its affected by ping, meaning that if you're above 50 ms you usually won't get that extra tick(s), "wasting" quite a bit of stats.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    I'm healing 10 man heroic with full crit gems, reforged crit>spirit>mastery>haste. It works fine, decent output and very good regen (10,5k crit 10,2k spirit 50% mastery last time I checked)
    Intersting. I tried that setup last tier, but with ~7k spirit, 22% crit and int flask and food it wasn't quite enough mana while progressing in Heart of Fear. Right now I'm sitting at 9.5k spirit (with spirit flask), and I find that more comfortable. Obviously I'm raiding normal raids and my ilvl is waaay lower than yours.

    If you're going the crit side, why don't you use Windsong instead of Jade Spirit ? Is the throughput gain that much better that it completely compensate the regen loss ?
    What about the HST/HTT hast breakpoint ? HST is usually one of my biggest source of healing (1st spell on our Horridon kill last night), so the additionnal tick is nice to have. Just like the ~2 second cast time on CH and HW.

    Also, I see you're using Telluric Currents instead of Totemic Recall. Is this fight specific ? Totemic recall seems a better mana regen tool compared to the time needed to cast a Lighting Bolt.

  19. #19
    Scarab Lord Puupi's Avatar
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    @Zahia

    7k spirit and 9k crit was enough for me to progress T14, but I had to be careful with HR usage.

    Interesting question about the weapon enchant, I hadn't thought about it at all. Why should a crit-build benefit more from Windsong than Jade Spirit? I don't really understand it.

    I don't give much weight for any HoT tick/totem tick breakpoints. Okay totem tick breakpoints are decent, but HoT's really arent. Most of our HoTs are overhealing anyway (especially the last ticks), but totems overheal less due to smart healing (but they still do some overhealing).

    I don't use Totemic Recall basically at all. I know it's good for getting that free HST, but I don't like to recall the totem all the time (forced to use a GCD for that). If you are recalling HST you should forget about all haste breakpoints atleast.

    The healing in this tier has been so hectic that I admit it would be justified to use Totemic Recall and ditch Telluric Currents. But in T14 I shot tons of Lightning Bolts, it was good regen and helped a bit with the dps. Without the glyph you shouldn't use LB at all, and I don't like that. I always want to have a button to press
    Last edited by Puupi; 2013-03-29 at 02:22 PM.
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  20. #20
    Dreadlord
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    Puupi! Grats on moderator, I don't think you were before or were you, I don't remember now, but I just noticed Oo Am I going crazy or what?
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