Yes but would take at least two resets
No, they would do roughly as well as the guilds of BC
No, they would take longer than the guilds of BC
People have better UIs and bigger screens now too, but that's not helpful with dps requirements
Last edited by laserguns; 2013-03-24 at 09:57 PM.
Of course they would! Old raids are A LOT easier when it comes to tactics, the only thing those bosses had was insane tuning and that doesn't make a boss harder, just annoying. We raided AQ40 and old Naxx without voice com and were pretty good at it. I can't imagine doing bosses today without voice coms and 1000x video guides everywhere + tons of addons. Back then we only had decursive and maybe some recount and that was it.
People who say TBC and Classic WoW were hard are the ones who are too influenced by nostalgia of how better and more awesome it was, with a lot harder bosses to make them feel special, but the truth is way different than what they say it was.
if people were dying at 85 then it was no one's fault but the healers, as he was utterly faceroll even at level 80.
yes though, at level 70 his damage output was indeed completely crazy. Especially in his pre nerf form when the raid damage caused spell pushback, resulting in lower DPS AND, crucially, HPS.
Simple answer is yes, probably. But it's a different game. Sunwell was a hard zone full of great and memorable bosses, but there were only six of them, and people are more experienced today. Players would simply adapt to the requirements of the zone and clear it the same way they clear other challenging content today. I'd argue that a fight like Durumu (heroic of course) would fit pretty well into the second half of Sunwell in terms of the tuning and pressure on the whole raid, the execution requirements on Animus significantly outstrip anything in Sunwell, and I doubt any Sunwell boss would live as long as Lei Shen has. That said, in Sunwell you couldn't really bring large numbers of alts for class stacking, DPS rotations were simpler but punished mistakes far more harshly, and the game was based more around absolute black and white pass or fail checks than strategic questions your raid had to answer etc.
In Sunwell, you stopped healing the tank for one second and they died. You didn't use a consumable the right way, you went oom, even as a dps. You moved more than necessary as a ranged and your DPS dropped significantly, etc. These days the game is more forgiving from an individual standpoint in the sense that you can move more freely, you can make small mistakes without ruining your ability to complete the encounter etc, but the collective execution checks your raid goes through are far more taxing. Players improve every expansion and no doubt they'd adapt just fine back to a Sunwell model and clear it in a week or so given that it's only six bosses.
Originally Posted by marxman
Last phase of m'uru isn't very execution heavy and relies a lot on "numbers"(chain healing, raw dps before his chain lightning ramped up too much). I think the content being gated helped a lot with getting those numbers. The game was also in a very different state with bloodlusts being rotated per group per shaman and chainheal being broken.
There should only be 1 raid difficulty now that there is LFR.
No need for heroic. Simply tune up normal a little more and remove heroic. Let the top guilds take a breath, eat properly, stop taking stims, and have a couple other hobbies. Leave in the bosses like Ra-den to keep them busy (or a couple activated hard-modes) - but not the "Heroic Difficulty"
Going back to version 1.0 M'uru:
Even if the best 25 raiders in the world had full T6 gear, 3 rogues with both Warglaives, and everyone was a LWer (let's face it, any serious guild had 20+ LWers in every raid)...they still would not have been able to down the ORIGINAL version of M'uru.
SK had FIVE WEEKS of Kalecgos, Brutallus, and Felmyst loot on top of two weeks of Eredar Twins loot before their first pull of M'uru.
I don't think there is any difference between the Method/Paragon/Blood Legion of now and the SK Gaming of BC in skill and/or ability to perform without a single mistake on a fight like M'uru 1.0. I'm rather confident the fight would have been mathematically impossible with only pre-Sunwell gear...unless you had something stupid like 6 rogues all with Warglaives.
I am sorry, but I think you are underestimating current top guilds a lot. I'm not saying current players are much better players than TBC top guilds (and I actually know a few of them), but heroic raiding got more and more demanding in time.
It wouldn't even last a week. 5 days at most.
Palmz - Warlock
Due to necessity of finding raiders in the current state of WoW, current top raiding guilds are filled with disgusting skilless trash who wouldn't have made it past Razorgore, much less pre-nerf Vash & Kael.
Anyone who has been in a top raiding guild since classic will be able to confirm that.
Yes, so much more time is put into raiding these days compared to back then.
Palmz - Warlock
Just one example, most guilds had an 80 man roster in vanilla. 40 man who raid, and 40 man who farm consumables.
---------- Post added 2013-03-24 at 06:57 PM ----------
LOL!Another thing that gets me is the general chat when inside the Garrison. It totally reminds me of every prison film I've ever watched. The prisoners confined to their cells are talking to each other through the walls. Their chat is mostly pointless, vulgar and revolving around stuff they ll do once they get out. This is EXACTLY the content of every Garrison chat I've ever had to tolerate.
I played since Vanilla. The dynamics have changed, but for some reason people seem to think that it has made the game harder. It hasn't. There are more addons now telling you what to do, it is not as gear dependant (RNG was killer along with attunement, rep grinds etc), and bosses tend to be more forgiving. Hell, people now would put their heads through a wall trying to get the 40 people together for a raid, let alone all those on stand by who are waiting for open spots if someone drops.
There are only so many times you can have a boss that has adds spawning, an enrage timer, or a circle of death on the ground you need to move out of. Every dynamic has been used at this point, it is just dressed up differently and labeled as 'New and exciting'. It is not.
WoW has become a mouse maze, and the players are just running through it trying to get the new shiny cheese every patch.
We are WARRIORS man! If we can't make it bleed, we will sure as hell dent the f%^ck out of it!
Palmz - Warlock