View Poll Results: Guilds of today would clear BC's SWP (non-gated) in the first reset

Voters
724. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    435 60.08%
  • Yes but would take at least two resets

    106 14.64%
  • No, they would do roughly as well as the guilds of BC

    142 19.61%
  • No, they would take longer than the guilds of BC

    41 5.66%
Page 8 of 9 FirstFirst ...
6
7
8
9
LastLast
  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by mstg View Post
    Pretty sure there was much less information about the bosses and much less add ons back then. Was PTR even available?
    Boss mods were there, you had skull icons/yells when needed, you had your raid frames, you had threat meters. What sort of incredible addons were we supposedly lacking back in TBC days?

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by mstg View Post
    Pretty sure there was much less information about the bosses and much less add ons back then. Was PTR even available?
    The PTR has been around since before patch 1.9, less than 1 year into WoW's lifespan. We had full PTR, premades, everything even back in that late vanilla time. (Here's an archived bluetracker post announcing the patch 1.9 PTR beginning, it even mentions updating your PTR from the previous 1.8 PTR http://blue.cardplace.com/cache/wow-realm-test/92647.htm[/url])

    I remember the Naxx PTR. The premades started Naxx attuned, Warriors (My only character back then, so the only one I tried) started with full T2, Ashkandi, but had no tank gear aside from 2 trinkets and a shield. Completely worthless.

    People just used chats to form raids and go zerg the Spider trash. Groups could just facerush the first few packs successfully and get them down before everyone died, we made it to Anub'rekhan on the first time I went in (Of course, we didn't even dent the health).

    I remember a guy who was using some sort of wallclimbing hack at Thorium Point. He was a Priest and he was running up the tall rock ebtween the Alliance and Horde FPs. Then he would mind control people and run them up the rock with him. I met one of my very close friends during that PTR, sadly I last contact with them years ago

    Anyways, I digress, but yes we had PTRs since long before SWP.
    Last edited by Magally; 2013-03-27 at 12:03 PM.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Magally View Post
    The PTR has been around since before patch 1.9, less than 1 year into WoW's lifespan. We had full PTR, premades, everything even back in that late vanilla time. (Here's an archived bluetracker post announcing the patch 1.9 PTR beginning, it even mentions updating your PTR from the previous 1.8 PTR http://blue.cardplace.com/cache/wow-realm-test/92647.htm[/url])
    I think the first PTR's were for patch ~1.5 or 1.6. They had a bunch of competitions, like speedleveling to 20 or getting a certain amount of honorable kills and the top few thousand in each category (including myself) were rewarded TBC beta access later on.



    Manni | paragon.fi | Dota 2 forum | The golden rule: Listen to Lysah.

  4. #144
    Depends.
    Do they start at the release of SWP or months prior so they can farm BT with 5 different alts?

  5. #145
    Considering most of the top guilds (BL/Method/Paragon - under different names for some) all raided back then and didn't pretty much gives you your answer..

    Wow now is a complete joke, I don't see how practicing a boss for unlimited hours on a test realm constitutes being better? Nor how funneling gear into a multitude of alts so you can have the perfect raid set up constitutes harder? Yes they put in more time, but time doesn't mean more skill, it never has.
    Xaenicael - Marauder - Legions of Lettow
    Xaenicael - Resto Shaman - Bronze Dragon Flight

  6. #146
    Stood in the Fire Drfireburns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    The Dark Portal
    Posts
    438
    Pre nerf? No way in hell. SWP was a ridiculous hard raid at the time. Not many guilds even made it past Brutallus, so anything M'uru or further was a true challenge. The guild I was in could barely down Brutallus, and we were the first guild on our server clearing BT/Illidan weekly. Felmyst was even difficult for a lot of guilds. So to say that guilds of today would just dinner roll in and down everything before a reset is kind of pushing it.
    Last edited by Drfireburns; 2013-03-27 at 03:18 PM.

  7. #147
    No, and even if they could who cares. It was still the hardest raid of it's time by light-years.

  8. #148
    Stood in the Fire
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    417
    Quote Originally Posted by Morden View Post
    bear in mind that the top guilds of today spend hundreds of hours on PTR learning tactics for the new raids so essentially they've already done the practice runs that would take people time.
    Hundreds of hours when each boss test lasts about 1-2 hours

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Miraclous View Post
    Hundreds of hours when each boss test lasts about 1-2 hours
    Oh, that's easy - they just do it on multiple chars.

    Wait...

  10. #150
    The Patient Vanderez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    My heart is in Canada
    Posts
    236
    Quote Originally Posted by laplacedemon View Post
    And that's why the current top guilds would have the edge, even if they were unlucky. Method has 2x25man runs and 10man runs during a single week. BL has even more as far as I noticed. As I said, they have many similarly geared alts, which they are using all the time. If they were doing Black Temple, they would farm it in a most efficient way.

    Yet, people already did it. When the epic gems became available at Dragon Soul patch, a lot of the people from top guilds switched to Blacksmithing because it provided a miniscule difference in main stats. They are already doing profession switching for much, much less gains than LW provided during TBC. What makes you think they would go 'meh, not worth the farm'?

    Please take a look at Paragon's, Method's and Blood Legion's armories. Their rosters are big, bigger than normal guilds. They all have at least one alt which is geared and cleared last tier's heroic modes.

    I am sorry, but I think you are underestimating current top guilds a lot. I'm not saying current players are much better players than TBC top guilds (and I actually know a few of them), but heroic raiding got more and more demanding in time.
    All very valid points, but my point with the my post was that we need to know what the basis are for the question.

    The original question was (in the OP): "Guilds of today would clear BC's SWP (non-gated) in the first reset?"
    I sense that you assume that the guild in question would have:
    - BiS geared mains and alts.
    - Several Characters with Warglaives
    - Every person in the raid with Leatherworking
    - Perfect class distribution
    - Maybe even the talent trees of Mists of Pandaria? (Thats a guess)

    EG, a perfect setup. So perfect that it'd probably never happen.

    Then yes, they might just be able to clear it in one reset. But realistically, every though this is a thought example, I find it unlikely. And my point with the post was that, unless all these parameters are true, it probably wouldn't happen. But if we imagine that a guild teleports back to a TBC server with all these things, then sure, they'd have a pretty good chance.

    If we imagine that they'd suffer the horror of RNG, which all guilds know of, they might not have had any legendaries for SWP at all. I mentioned that we had a pair of Glaives after our first two kills. (Our rogue who got them actually left for Method the day after. DAMN YOU Method! :P). But we never saw another one drop at all.

    Now, I don't think raiding back in TBC took either more or less skill than today. I can't claim that it's exactly the same, since it's impossible to measure, but I believe it would take about the same skill as today (:

    Edit: I completely forgot that the people who had world first Kil'Jaeden also had gear from Sunwell. Patch 2.4 came out on the March 25th, according to wowwiki. The third gate was not down until May 20th, which gives the guild about two months of farming parts of Sunwell.
    Last edited by Vanderez; 2013-03-27 at 07:50 PM. Reason: Clarification and "Your skill in grammar has increased to 2"

  11. #151
    How about not letting a bunch of guilds test raids, figure out the strats on the test server and pass them out so others can copy everything once its released and the shits all beaten the same day... THAT needs to stop if we want any longevity to return to raids. Blizzard allowing raid guilds to test the raids is whats killing the longevity. If you think otherwise, your ignorant. When they didnt allow that, raids actually took time but now with them letting guilds tackle it on the test server, it ruins any longevity.

  12. #152
    Guilds today are vastly superior than guilds back then, partly helped by the increase in abilities that allow more options for cheesing mechanics.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Akylios View Post
    So perhaps you can explain to an old fart such as myself exactly what it is that WoW has brought to gaming in the past 5 years that would baffle competitive gamers of years gone by? Because whatever it is, I just can't see it.
    I believe it's the thing that makes people say Michael Jordan better than Wilt Chamberlain and Kobe better than Jordan and now Lebron greater than them all. The current generation is always going to think their guy is better than the previous generation.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Draex View Post
    Wow now is a complete joke, I don't see how practicing a boss for unlimited hours on a test realm constitutes being better? Nor how funneling gear into a multitude of alts so you can have the perfect raid set up constitutes harder? Yes they put in more time, but time doesn't mean more skill, it never has.
    What are you talking about? Top guilds in Sunwell did use the perfect raid comp, which is why world first M'uru had four resto shamans or whatever. PTR has been around since Blackwing Lair, and it was definitely around for Sunwell. The only boss that wasn't tested is Kil'jaeden, same as now. You can't test a boss for unlimited hours on PTR, you can test it for around two hours at most. And anyone who has raided at a high level since vanilla/TBC will tell you that fights are just as if not more mechanically challenging now than ever before.

    A lot of things about WoW have gotten easier over the years, but the top level of raiding is not one of them.

  15. #155
    Stood in the Fire Satanous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Detroit
    Posts
    390
    Honestly, I would love to see any of the top guilds come into a raid fresh no eight months worth of ptr practice and really race for the lead. Not saying they are unskilled or I'm better would just be interesting to me to see how long it would really take them to get a fight without prior knowledge/practice at it.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Blutelf View Post
    No.

    Due to necessity of finding raiders in the current state of WoW, current top raiding guilds are filled with disgusting skilless trash who wouldn't have made it past Razorgore, much less pre-nerf Vash & Kael.

    Anyone who has been in a top raiding guild since classic will be able to confirm that.
    Bahahaha. That's just funny. Razorgore? Really? If you took the absolute best 40-man raid guild of vanilla and threw that guild into current heroic raids, they'd still be 2/13 heroic and be posting on their site that "Council of Elders is mathematically impossible unless you exploit". People in vanilla and TBC went to the "mathematically impossible" argument at almost every opportunity just to explain why they didn't instantly kill a boss. When enrage timers were balanced around 20% of your raid being AFK (BWL in a nutshell) and people still hit the enrage, you know raiding wasn't even taken seriously by Blizzard. 4 Horsemen, at its original difficulty, is the only vanilla fight that *might* be hard enough to be a heroic currently, and it would still be easier than heroic Council of Elders in the current tier.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Posokhov View Post
    Bahahaha. That's just funny. Razorgore? Really? If you took the absolute best 40-man raid guild of vanilla and threw that guild into current heroic raids, they'd still be 2/13 heroic and be posting on their site that "Council of Elders is mathematically impossible unless you exploit". People in vanilla and TBC went to the "mathematically impossible" argument at almost every opportunity just to explain why they didn't instantly kill a boss. When enrage timers were balanced around 20% of your raid being AFK (BWL in a nutshell) and people still hit the enrage, you know raiding wasn't even taken seriously by Blizzard. 4 Horsemen, at its original difficulty, is the only vanilla fight that *might* be hard enough to be a heroic currently, and it would still be easier than heroic Council of Elders in the current tier.
    Current raiding is a joke and it is easily seen by how fast the content is cleared.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Peso View Post
    Current raiding is a joke and it is easily seen by how fast the content is cleared.
    I'm not so sure. I don't think guilds were putting 500-1000 attempts into a raid a week like they are currently.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Peso View Post
    Current raiding is a joke and it is easily seen by how fast the content is cleared.
    And you're delusional.

  20. #160
    Herald of the Titans Aqua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Under your bed
    Posts
    2,593
    I would say yes, the community always seems to overlook the fact that over the years the raiding community has evolved in terms of efficiency and organization. Even the most hardcore of the 'old days' were about what mid range (Rank 100-1000ish) do now.

    The level expected from top players now is nothing less than perfection on practiced fights, and the mechanics in SWP are fairly less convoluted than some of the ones today. Barring M'uru's overwhelming mob fiesta I don't think any of the top guilds today would spend more than one reset period on SWP (In BC gear/skills)

    I've seen some of the people playing on BC frozen private servers and their understanding of the skills and gear is now on a level I feel the top guilds have consistently at their disposal from Test Realm and stat weighing, the raid encounters are all cakewalks. Practiced or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by savutitus View Post
    Yeah, it's always WAR WAR WAR untill..BY ALL THAT IS HOLY DO YOU SEE THAT ENEMY OVER THERE?? GLORIOUS LOOT!!!!!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •