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  1. #1

    Unholy Dualwield?

    Hi Guys, Today i respecced to Unholy and i wonder about my weapons ...

    i can choose between

    http://www.wowhead.com/item=87061

    as twohanded

    and

    http://www.wowhead.com/item=96004
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=86387 2 Upgrades

    Since the DPS between my twohanded and my mainhand isn`t that big and i will get some extra expertise as an orc from my worldbreakers, i wonder if it would be any good dualwielding for now, till i get an better twohanded?

  2. #2
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    unholy DW does not work.

  3. #3
    Pandaren Monk Rizendragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    unholy DW does not work.
    This. UH DW was killed long ago. They really need to only let Frost hold 1H weapons so this nonsense stops...
    Originally Posted by Bashiok
    The dishonest are want to identify dishonesty, even where it doesn't exist.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    unholy DW does not work.
    because? i know, that unholy is not made for dualwield ... but i would get a second weapon enchant, much more stats, much more proccs and would not loose that much dps for my skills scalling with my weapondmg

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by totmachor View Post
    because? i know, that unholy is not made for dualwield ... but i would get a second weapon enchant, much more stats, much more proccs and would not loose that much dps for my skills scalling with my weapondmg
    Because attack power is normalized for damage, granting two-handers (normalized at 3.6 seconds) much higher yield on strikes than one-handers (normalized at 2.6).
    Even if the weapon damage of both weapons is close, the AP coefficients would make your strikes hit like wet noodles.
    Also: I'm pretty sure the procs are based on a PPM-thing; wielding two weapons will not increase non-percentage based procs. Maybe you'll get more free deathcoils, but that will only result in you sitting on RP that you cannot spend... Unspent RP is a DPS-loss, and you could invest in gear that causes less procs but adds to attack power or other things.

    Once your weapon is so fantastically good that it alone offers enough attack power to overcome the normalization divide, you might wish to dual-wield... But even then, you require more hit to make up for DPS lost on white hits, which you need to pull from somewhere else... Costing you more DPS than you're probably willing to.

    All in all: Yeah, no. You probably shouldn't go there at all. Dual-wield Blood is bad because of the DPS-loss, though you could arguably get away with it for defensive purposes if you've got two really fantastic tanking weapons. Less than optimal, but at least you'll live. Dual-wield unholy is much, much worse even than that.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by totmachor View Post
    because? i know, that unholy is not made for dualwield ... but i would get a second weapon enchant, much more stats, much more proccs and would not loose that much dps for my skills scalling with my weapondmg
    Unholy used to be able to proc Sudden Doom from both weapons I beleive, which was why it was stronger. I never played it as duel wield and stayed 2hander for the short time it was popular, but there is and will be no reason to ever switch to it.
    You will see a markable decrease in dps, your strikes will be hitting with only your Main Hand weapon, as well as only getting Sudden Doom procs off of it, so the only thing that the off hand does is provide white damage.

    If duel wield was anything close to a viable thing to do you would see it on some site saying "these two weapons are viable to replace a 2hander" but there is none. (This coming from someone whom does not think much of just following what a site says)

    ALL Unholy guides, sites and pages will tell you 2hander. That is the way Unholy is made, and it is how Blizz decided we will go.

  7. #7
    actually i only loose 1k dps going dual-wield

  8. #8
    Moderator Fnx-'s Avatar
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    DW unholy was killed early cata tbh.

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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by totmachor View Post
    actually i only loose 1k dps going dual-wield
    Then I'm really wondering how you usually play, and what kind of DPS results you ordinarily get.

  10. #10
    Herald of the Titans Varyk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Then I'm really wondering how you usually play, and what kind of DPS results you ordinarily get.
    I would bet a decent amount he's basing that off of dummy tests as well.

    Just total facepalm.

  11. #11
    Pandaren Monk Zethras's Avatar
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    Frost has Threat of Thassarian, which causes most of our strikes also hit with the offhand weapon. Unholy lacks this, and therefore won't work with DW.
    Walking with a friend in the dark is better than walking alone in the light.
    So I chose the path of the Ebon Blade, and not a day passes where i've regretted it.
    I am eternal, I am unyielding, I am UNDYING.
    I am Zethras, and my blood will be the end of you.

  12. #12
    If you only lose 1k dps, you must be really, really bad.

  13. #13
    In case anyone was curious, because I was.
    Changing NOTHING but weapon damage and type.

    535 unholy with 535 2-hander: 181k
    535 unholy with 535 DW: 164k
    535 unholy with 575 DW: 171k
    535 unholy with 615 DW: 180.9k
    535 unholy with 655 DW: 195k

    So after both your DW weapons are about 85 ilevels higher than your 2-hander, DW unholy > 2-hand unholy. Barley.
    To lower that ilevel, if you have a 450 quest 2-hander, it's SLIGHTLY worse than 2 535 heroic ToT weapons, and SLIGHTLY better than a pair of normal thunderforged 528 weapons.

    Edit: At OP: I'd suggest DW frost with those bad boys.

  14. #14
    Look at raw weapon damage instead of DPS. The one hander is only 68% of the 2hander. Ignore the offhand since it is not affecting strikes and is just a white hitter. You are losing about 30% of your DPS using that Thunderforged 1h over your Starshatter. That is not worth a bump to expertise, which is incredibly easy to cap, and a second runeforge. FC procs on second weapon do not noticeably affect its uptime, and Cinderglacier is 20% damage on two spells every something like 30 seconds. That does not make up a third of your damage. If you want to dual wield, you need to go Frost. Anything else is a significant loss, so much as to be uncompetitive.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Mendenbarr View Post
    In case anyone was curious, because I was.
    Changing NOTHING but weapon damage and type.

    535 unholy with 535 2-hander: 181k
    535 unholy with 535 DW: 164k
    535 unholy with 575 DW: 171k
    535 unholy with 615 DW: 180.9k
    535 unholy with 655 DW: 195k

    So after both your DW weapons are about 85 ilevels higher than your 2-hander, DW unholy > 2-hand unholy. Barley.
    To lower that ilevel, if you have a 450 quest 2-hander, it's SLIGHTLY worse than 2 535 heroic ToT weapons, and SLIGHTLY better than a pair of normal thunderforged 528 weapons.

    Edit: At OP: I'd suggest DW frost with those bad boys.
    thanks for beeing the only person serious on this subject.

    at some point i have to go unholy, to have an argument for rolling on the twohander ... with that thunderforged onehander i just cant do it as frost!

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by totmachor View Post
    thanks for beeing the only person serious on this subject.

    at some point i have to go unholy, to have an argument for rolling on the twohander ... with that thunderforged onehander i just cant do it as frost!
    I can't see how mine or a few others weren't serious here >.>
    but as long as you got the answer from all that you saw here thats all that matters

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxweii View Post
    I can't see how mine or a few others weren't serious here >.>
    but as long as you got the answer from all that you saw here thats all that matters
    saying that it is not described in guides is not helpful at all ... sometimes looking at the linked weapons can help too.

  18. #18
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by totmachor View Post
    saying that it is not described in guides is not helpful at all ... sometimes looking at the linked weapons can help too.
    if 5+ people tell you its bad, its bad.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by totmachor View Post
    saying that it is not described in guides is not helpful at all ... sometimes looking at the linked weapons can help too.
    True... But I, for one, didn't do that, and I did try to be helpful and offer explanations.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by totmachor View Post
    saying that it is not described in guides is not helpful at all ... sometimes looking at the linked weapons can help too.
    If all you took out of what I said is that then you didn't read 80% of what I wrote >.> I explaining reasonings behind why it's bad, then said how guides won't push you that way while also saying I don't even follow guides.
    Blizz itself pushed Unholy to being a 2hander class, not duel.

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