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  1. #661
    Mechagnome Boogieknight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheronShadowstorm View Post
    Always blaming Bush and claiming no responsibilities for the current downhill track.
    Yeah, I will. Bush seriously screwed up a lot of stuff and you cannot deny that. You cannot look at what's happening now without looking at the predecessor's contribution. The next president will be compared to Obama, and the next after him. And so on. But before Bush I'll put almost 100% of my blame on the deity of the Republican party: Ronald Reagan. Seriously every whine the people have started there. Taxes were cut for the top drastically by him, but he raised them multiple times on the middle and lower classes while cutting social (communist) spending. He radically increased defense spending (to fight communism). He tripled the national debt. He granted amnesty to ~3 million illegal immigrants. His economic policies he enacted are similar to what led to the crash that caused the great depression. His term saw the training of Al-Quaeda to battle the evil Russian communists (notice a theme here, the man hated communism in a McCarthy-like way) and helped put the Taliban in power. The Iran/Contra scandal didn't help anyone either, and most of the members involved in it were pardoned by Reagan's VP, Bush Sr., when he took office.

    Seriously he was not a good president in the long term, but republicans hail him as the second coming of Christ because he helped the rich get richer and he was a highly religious social conservative.
    Anyone else think Jaime Lannister only has the Kingslayer title because he was just too lazy to kill the king on heroic mode?

  2. #662
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogieknight View Post
    Yeah, I will. Bush seriously screwed up a lot of stuff and you cannot deny that. You cannot look at what's happening now without looking at the predecessor's contribution. The next president will be compared to Obama, and the next after him. And so on. But before Bush I'll put almost 100% of my blame on the deity of the Republican party: Ronald Reagan. Seriously every whine the people have started there. Taxes were cut for the top drastically by him, but he raised them multiple times on the middle and lower classes while cutting social (communist) spending. He radically increased defense spending (to fight communism). He tripled the national debt. He granted amnesty to ~3 million illegal immigrants. His economic policies he enacted are similar to what led to the crash that caused the great depression. His term saw the training of Al-Quaeda to battle the evil Russian communists (notice a theme here, the man hated communism in a McCarthy-like way) and helped put the Taliban in power. The Iran/Contra scandal didn't help anyone either, and most of the members involved in it were pardoned by Reagan's VP, Bush Sr., when he took office.

    Seriously he was not a good president in the long term, but republicans hail him as the second coming of Christ because he helped the rich get richer and he was a highly religious social conservative.
    Theres nothing wrong with some good old fashioned communism hate I'm not sure if Id vote for someone like him but we need more anti-socialist, anti-communist policies. Cut the military spending, only give welfare to those who actually need it. We don't need to get into an even bigger dept and taxing the rich is also a terrible terrible idea for the land of opportunities. This has always been the reason of Americas success. The brightest minds and successful people with ideas have come to US to bring them to life without being hindered.

    Socialism is NOT some way to paradise. It isn't even that successful. Norway has oil. Sweden is facing big problems in the near future. Not only that but most of these countries are a lot smaller with more or less equal salary across the country. In the US we have rich states and poor states. Raising taxes for those social benefits just wouldn't ever work in a fair way without raising salaries too. These things take decades and I don't think it's the right path to take.

  3. #663
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
    Socialism is NOT some way to paradise. It isn't even that successful. Norway has oil. Sweden is facing big problems in the near future. Not only that but most of these countries are a lot smaller with more or less equal salary across the country. In the US we have rich states and poor states. Raising taxes for those social benefits just wouldn't ever work in a fair way without raising salaries too. These things take decades and I don't think it's the right path to take.
    There are quite significant differences in average salary in different areas of the country. Not that I would call my country Socialist, it's a free market economy.

    What problems are we facing in the near future?
    Our economy is still in pretty decent change, our retirement system has been reformed years ago to better handle the future, something every country needs to do sooner or later. Our private debts are shrinking, people save more money then ever before and borrow less... we still manage to run surpluses, public debts are going down(decreased with around 0.5%, down to 37%) and the cost of said loans to... and thats despite Europe being in shape it currently is, and we are quite dependent on exports.

    Here are two reports that should give you an idea about how we are doing. SCB is the central agency for statistics.
    Sweden's GDP increased 1.4 percent in fourth quarter 2012

    Sweden's GDP increased by 1.4 percent, working-day adjusted and compared to the fourth quarter of 2011. Seasonally adjusted the GDP was unchanged compared with the third quarter of 2012. Household consumption expenditures increased by 1.9 percent and general government consumption expenditures grew by 1.1 percent non-adjusted.

    The changes in inventories amounted to a negative GDP change of 1.5 percentage points. Gross fixed capital formation increased by 1.8 percent. Exports were unchanged and imports decreased by 1.1 percent. Production of goods and services increased 1.0 percent. Production of goods dropped by 0.7 percent while service sector industries grew by 1.8 percent working-day adjusted. Total employment measured as the number of hours worked increased by 1.3 percent and the number of employed persons increased 0.5 percent.

    Compared to the publication in November 2012, working day adjusted GDP growth for the second quarter 2012 has been revised upwards by 0.2 percentage points. The third quarter of 2012 has been revised downwards by 0.2 points seasonally adjusted. In the first quarter 2012 GDP growth has been revised downwards by 0.1 percentage points in working-day adjusted figures.

    Press release from Statistics Sweden and Swedish Financial Supervisory Authority


    2013-03-21 9:30 AM Nr 2013:80

    Financial accounts, 4th quarter 2012:
    Financial savings of households at historic high level in 2012

    In line with the worsened economy, the household sector sharply increased its financial savings in 2012. Savings for the entire year of 2012 amounted to SEK 153 billion. The increase on the assets side was relatively strong, while the increase on loans instead dropped for the third year in a row.

    Subdued real growth and a sharp increase in financial savings of households in 2012

    Financial savings in the household sector increased sharply during 2012 and equalled SEK 153 billion at the end of the year. Savings during the first six months were extremely strong but were considerably more moderate during the second six months, SEK 132 billion and 21 billion respectively. It is not so surprising that financial savings increase during 2012, since the household sector tends to increase its savings when the real growth decreases and vice versa. In other words, the increase during the year can be seen as increased precautionary savings. On the assets side, insurance savings, bank deposits, tenant ownership rights and foreign shares and funds increased above all. Net sales were made for bonds and Swedish quoted shares during the period. On the liabilities side the increase of loans dropped for the third year in a row and in 2012 was the lowest since 2002. The increase of loans in the household sector continued to be subdued during the last quarter of the year, despite falling interest rates.

    Non-financial corporations pay back inter-company loans abroad

    During the fourth quarter of 2012, SEK 235 billion was moved from Swedish to foreign companies within the corporation, of which SEK 188 billion was repayment of loans and SEK 47 billion was increased lending. The reason is probably due to the tougher legislation for deductions for interest that were introduced on 1 January 2013. In other words, companies moved money within the corporation during the fourth quarter because the possibilities for tax planning would be reduced with the new legislation.

    Government debt as a share of GDP has dropped over time

    During the fourth quarter of 2012 the government switched from long-term borrowing to short-term borrowing in securities. The government issued treasury bills for a net amount of SEK 108 billion, while its debts decreased by SEK 76 billion. Foreign investors made net purchases of treasury bills for SEK 79 billion and made net sales of government bonds for SEK 51 billion. Financial savings for all of 2012 amounted to minus SEK 16 billion. During the same period debts in bonds dropped by SEK 68 billion while treasury bills increased by SEK 66 billion. The total consolidated market value of the government debt decreased by SEK 28 billion during 2012, from SEK 1 355 to 1 327 billion, corresponding to 37 percent of GDP. Government debt as a share of GDP has dropped sharply since the record notation during the middle of the 1990s.
    Last edited by Jackmoves; 2013-03-25 at 10:22 AM.
    The nerve is called the "nerve of awareness". You cant dissect it. Its a current that runs up the center of your spine. I dont know if any of you have sat down, crossed your legs, smoked DMT, and watch what happens... but what happens to me is this big thing goes RRRRRRRRRAAAAAWWW! up my spine and flashes in my brain... well apparently thats whats going to happen if I do this stuff...

  4. #664
    Romney lost because he flipped more then the burgers at mcdonalds. I watched both closely more romney then obama because idk what id be getting if i voted for him
    I play many games. WoW, Rift, D3, PoE, SC2 I will not criticize your game choice if you don't mine.

  5. #665
    The Insane Bakis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
    Socialism is NOT some way to paradise. It isn't even that successful. Norway has oil. Sweden is facing big problems in the near future. Not only that but most of these countries are a lot smaller with more or less equal salary across the country. In the US we have rich states and poor states. Raising taxes for those social benefits just wouldn't ever work in a fair way without raising salaries too. These things take decades and I don't think it's the right path to take.
    Norway has some natural resouces unlike the US?
    Sweden face what problems?
    Salaray is more or less the same across the country?

    You can diss the free-market economy we got here as socialist but we enjoy less poverty, better education, better health care, better economy than you thank you very much but you will probably diss that and point to how the lives are for the top 0,1% of all americans
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Did you read how US is trying to destabilize pacific (china-jap) area too? They are sending warships down there. We might be seeing a new military force being created out of those two nations that will counter NATO (with EASE)

  6. #666
    Quote Originally Posted by Tapzer View Post
    Nope, he considered middle class citizens as "You make 80k-120k a year" He would have lowered taxes for those people and raised taxes for the ACTUAL middle class people. Now I don't agree with Obamas views either, but hes better than Romney.
    Whoa :/ If you made that around here, you'd be rich. Seriously.

    I GROSS 23k/year and I'm living comfortably. Probably due to no debt, though. I'd consider myself middle class. It isn't really your income though. It's where you live, too.

    Some people are so delusional when it comes to that. "Where I live it's like this, so it must be similar everywhere else!" Nope, America is different everywhere.
    Last edited by Zafire; 2013-03-25 at 11:20 AM.

  7. #667
    Actually you can blame Bush for 8 years of destruction and you can forgive Obama for not fixing that destruction in 2+ years.

    Said it many times but will say it again.

    It takes longer to clean up your room then to make a mess of it.

    It will take me 5 mins to make a huge mess of my house but it will take hours to clean it up. So the fact that Obama couldn't clean up after bush in 2 years (because that's when ''you can't blame Bush'' argument started) isn't all that surprising.



    l

  8. #668
    The Lightbringer Yirrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
    Theres nothing wrong with some good old fashioned communism hate I'm not sure if Id vote for someone like him but we need more anti-socialist, anti-communist policies. Cut the military spending, only give welfare to those who actually need it. We don't need to get into an even bigger dept and taxing the rich is also a terrible terrible idea for the land of opportunities. This has always been the reason of Americas success. The brightest minds and successful people with ideas have come to US to bring them to life without being hindered.

    Socialism is NOT some way to paradise. It isn't even that successful. Norway has oil. Sweden is facing big problems in the near future. Not only that but most of these countries are a lot smaller with more or less equal salary across the country. In the US we have rich states and poor states. Raising taxes for those social benefits just wouldn't ever work in a fair way without raising salaries too. These things take decades and I don't think it's the right path to take.

    Norway uses 3-4% of it's oil revenue, the rest is invested to keep funds for future pensions avaliable. Sweden has...what problems exactly? The Euro crisis doesn't seem to have hit them nearly as hard as many European countries. Meanwhile, both countries allow anyone that wish access to free higher education and healthcare. Do you realise what that means? It means that as "menial" work is more and more outsourced to countries with lower costs, the scandinavian nations gain more and more people that are trained in the kind of work that is NOT being outsourced, which lessens the pressure on avaliable work that does not require more than high school-level education. Giving freely avaliable healthcare also means that the workforce is overall healthier, with less people having to worry about losing their house or business if they become ill.

    Socialism is not a way to paradise, but it is a way to ensure that everyone has access to the basic services that ALL the citizens need, independent of their income. A world where people doesn't go sick with worry over whether they can pay their doctor or not, or what will happen if they are laid off. A world where intelligent, creative people isn't barred from gaining an education because they happened to be born poor.

    Unchecked capitalism on the other hand, is only beneficial to those very few who manage to get rich from it. And it will always BE very few, because capitalism is basically a pyramid scheme. If you get in early, near the top, you use the resources of those who did not get in early or near the top to increase your own wealth. It's anti-social behaviour that is rewarded, not acts that benefits the entirety of society. Capitalism is useful...if harnessed and prevented from running amok. Reagan and Tatcher removed that harness, leaving the world in the mess it's in today.
    Want ACTA? No? Say NO to TTIP! Want GMO's? No? Say NO to TTIP! Want your country controlled by US buisness interests? No? Say NO to TTIP!

  9. #669
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    You're more or less demanding that people defy urges our body is wired not to. Its borderline slut shaming.
    How to make sure very few people have children they can't support: create a safe outlet for those urges, strongly encourage people to take it by rewarding them with increased social standing, punish those who do not take it with decreased social standing. As a bonus, you can have a ceremony to celebrate when a person takes part in this outlet for the first time.

  10. #670
    Nonsensical conspiracy theories aside, it would probably have been about the same, possibly a bit worse. Due to the constant deadlocks, politicians of either party can get little done.

  11. #671
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yirrah View Post
    Norway uses 3-4% of it's oil revenue, the rest is invested to keep funds for future pensions avaliable. Sweden has...what problems exactly? The Euro crisis doesn't seem to have hit them nearly as hard as many European countries. Meanwhile, both countries allow anyone that wish access to free higher education and healthcare. Do you realise what that means? It means that as "menial" work is more and more outsourced to countries with lower costs, the scandinavian nations gain more and more people that are trained in the kind of work that is NOT being outsourced, which lessens the pressure on avaliable work that does not require more than high school-level education. Giving freely avaliable healthcare also means that the workforce is overall healthier, with less people having to worry about losing their house or business if they become ill.

    Socialism is not a way to paradise, but it is a way to ensure that everyone has access to the basic services that ALL the citizens need, independent of their income. A world where people doesn't go sick with worry over whether they can pay their doctor or not, or what will happen if they are laid off. A world where intelligent, creative people isn't barred from gaining an education because they happened to be born poor.

    Unchecked capitalism on the other hand, is only beneficial to those very few who manage to get rich from it. And it will always BE very few, because capitalism is basically a pyramid scheme. If you get in early, near the top, you use the resources of those who did not get in early or near the top to increase your own wealth. It's anti-social behaviour that is rewarded, not acts that benefits the entirety of society. Capitalism is useful...if harnessed and prevented from running amok. Reagan and Tatcher removed that harness, leaving the world in the mess it's in today.
    Pretty sure the reason why sweden isn't being hit hard by the euro crisis is because they aren't part of the euro.

    Places with their own currency (that don't have collapsing banking sectors, hello iceland) that have turned on the printing press have been more or less fine. (by turning on the printing press, i mean run a deficit, on account of them being the same thing).

  12. #672
    The Insane Bakis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krazus View Post
    Nonsensical conspiracy theories aside, it would probably have been about the same, possibly a bit worse. Due to the constant deadlocks, politicians of either party can get little done.
    Probably, none of the two parties seem interested in any form of compromise with the 'other side'.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-25 at 01:59 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by vetinari View Post
    Pretty sure the reason why sweden isn't being hit hard by the euro crisis is because they aren't part of the euro.

    Places with their own currency (that don't have collapsing banking sectors, hello iceland) that have turned on the printing press have been more or less fine. (by turning on the printing press, i mean run a deficit, on account of them being the same thing).
    Still a free-market, still losely based on socialism and still part of the EU. The post you quoted specifically stated socialism is always bad.
    Also we have a bit more responsible politicians and/or way less corruption than southern Europe, Ireland or France.
    Last edited by Bakis; 2013-03-25 at 01:00 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Did you read how US is trying to destabilize pacific (china-jap) area too? They are sending warships down there. We might be seeing a new military force being created out of those two nations that will counter NATO (with EASE)

  13. #673
    Ron Paul would of been a better President - Anyone who advocates bringing our soldiers home and away from senseless wars and the killing of innocent people has my vote. I'm not some Code Pink nut, but I think money comes and goes and people can weather through an economic downfall; it's the permanence of death that is hard to recover from and right now we're knee deep in it.

  14. #674
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    Probably, none of the two parties seem interested in any form of compromise with the 'other side'.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-25 at 01:59 PM ----------



    Still a free-market, still losely based on socialism and still part of the EU. The post you quoted specifically stated socialism is always bad.
    Also we have a bit more responsible politicians and/or way less corruption than southern Europe, Ireland or France.
    I'm pretty sure that the post I quoted specifically said that checked capitalism is the best path. Checked with socialism.

    Its not EU membership that is the problem, but EURO membership. If your population has a net savings desire (i.e. pay off debt), you need to be able to either print money or run a trade surplus or you are fucked. Since every country's population has a significantly positive savings desire during recession, any country that can't print money and has a trade deficit a.k.a. most of the euro-zone, is screwed.

    The whole spiel about tax-dodging people/corrupt politicians is meaningless. The problems are fundamental to the Euro-zone. One country per currency is the only model that works.

  15. #675
    The Insane Bakis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vetinari View Post
    I'm pretty sure that the post I quoted specifically said that checked capitalism is the best path. Checked with socialism.

    Its not EU membership that is the problem, but EURO membership. If your population has a net savings desire (i.e. pay off debt), you need to be able to either print money or run a trade surplus or you are fucked. Since every country's population has a significantly positive savings desire during recession, any country that can't print money and has a trade deficit a.k.a. most of the euro-zone, is screwed.

    The whole spiel about tax-dodging people/corrupt politicians is meaningless. The problems are fundamental to the Euro-zone. One country per currency is the only model that works.
    Ah my bad sort of, that post was a direct repsonse to
    Theres nothing wrong with some good old fashioned communism hate I'm not sure if Id vote for someone like him but we need more anti-socialist, anti-communist policies. ---- Socialism is NOT some way to paradise. It isn't even that successful
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Did you read how US is trying to destabilize pacific (china-jap) area too? They are sending warships down there. We might be seeing a new military force being created out of those two nations that will counter NATO (with EASE)

  16. #676
    Quote Originally Posted by Salandrin View Post
    I'm fairly certain it was not due to voting (obviously), that Obama got re-elected, but through shady media manipulation, but what's done is done.

    Now, this is entirely hypothetical, but do you think Romney would arguably be better than Obama as a leader? Considering his lack of progress (Obama), it made me wonder.
    I'm pretty sure ANYBODY would have been a far better president. And not to get off topic, but has anyone found out why DHS, an organization whose theater of operations is limited solely to the mainland US has purchased 1.6 billions rounds of ammo, 2700+ light armor vehicles and 3000 drones? And why isn't the media on this?

  17. #677
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yngwie View Post
    I'm pretty sure ANYBODY would have been a far better president. And not to get off topic, but has anyone found out why DHS, an organization whose theater of operations is limited solely to the mainland US has purchased 1.6 billions rounds of ammo, 2700+ light armor vehicles and 3000 drones? And why isn't the media on this?
    Probably because the manufacturer of said equipment had some buddies on the procurement board. Don't ascribe to malice when simple greed will do.

  18. #678
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
    Theres nothing wrong with some good old fashioned communism hate I'm not sure if Id vote for someone like him but we need more anti-socialist, anti-communist policies. Cut the military spending, only give welfare to those who actually need it. We don't need to get into an even bigger dept and taxing the rich is also a terrible terrible idea for the land of opportunities. This has always been the reason of Americas success. The brightest minds and successful people with ideas have come to US to bring them to life without being hindered.

    Socialism is NOT some way to paradise. It isn't even that successful. Norway has oil. Sweden is facing big problems in the near future. Not only that but most of these countries are a lot smaller with more or less equal salary across the country. In the US we have rich states and poor states. Raising taxes for those social benefits just wouldn't ever work in a fair way without raising salaries too. These things take decades and I don't think it's the right path to take.
    You say this as if we frivolously spend money on welfare for those who don't need it, when in actuality this is about as far from the truth as you can get. For some odd reason right wing media has people convinced that the rich are being taxed so that the poor can buy steak dinners and dom perignon. The welfare system isn't exploited nearly to the degree that people seem to think it is.

    Also, historically we have had the strongest economy and the strongest middle class when the taxes on the rich were the highest. A strong GDP and a strong government economy have held up and supported the middle class, which is the very definition of the land of opportunity and working hard for your money. A big deficit and a weak government has only proven to hinder the lower and middle classes. That's the antithesis of opportunity.

  19. #679
    Quote Originally Posted by kojinshugi View Post
    Hey, mods, screw you for infracting that. He didn't "flame". The OP is an obvious troll, and the word "idiots" wasn't directed at anyone else in particular.

    The quality of these forums will never improve if you let garbage like the OP slide while banning people for nonexistent violations.
    If you have problems with moderation, PM Sunshine or use the Contact Us option at the top of your screen.

    Coming into a thread to talk about it will do no one any good.

  20. #680
    The Lightbringer Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by endersblade View Post
    Reps are whizzes when it comes to money
    This is the best scam the republican party has managed to do. Somehow they have convinced everyone they are the fiscally conservative party that will be the path the financial prosperity.

    Now, let's play a game.

    Let's look at what the GOP says when it comes to money and now let's look at what they actually do​. Whizzes when it comes to money my ass.

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