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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhynno View Post
    This is not completely correct. They are the first guild to down Heroic Lei Shen! not just 10man. It is unfair to just say they were the first to down it in 10 man. They were the first to kill him period
    When you saying that they are first to kill him, you implicitly comparing them to other guilds including those who raid in 25-man format. But that's quite inaccurate comparision because of multiple reasons including different encounter difficulties, diffirent logistics difficulties and other factors. It's better not to start useless flame war and just accept that those are totally different formats with different bosses and diffirent progresses which happened to look similar.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Some people need to be infracted for being ...just..like..not really evolved on their way to becoming human beings?

    Oh wait.

    There is pretty much a tie up on 10 and 25 man guilds competing for world first and absolutely no proof that one format is "easier" than the other. These players are just infinitively better than any of us...be it 10 or 25 man. Just honor their skills and shut up, please?
    Somebody didn't get the joke.
    Last edited by JakeMonkey; 2013-03-25 at 12:39 AM.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Some people need to be infracted for being ...just..like..not really evolved on their way to becoming human beings?

    Oh wait.

    There is pretty much a tie up on 10 and 25 man guilds competing for world first and absolutely no proof that one format is "easier" than the other. These players are just infinitively better than any of us...be it 10 or 25 man. Just honor their skills and shut up, please?
    But 10 man Lei Shen is easier than 25. And this is coming from a 10 man raider. :> Look at all the space you've to spread out during the whole fight.

    So tired of people like you, who dont even raid and comment on raiding issues. Stick to LFR discussions, please.
    Most people do not realize the talent and skill it requires to be in a top guild. Many of you think its only about time invested, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

  4. #44
    Gz paragon on your 10man. I look forward to the real world first on 25man

  5. #45
    so sad to tell you but they got the world first no matter what raid size.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-24 at 07:07 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    But 10 man Lei Shen is easier than 25. And this is coming from a 10 man raider. :> Look at all the space you've to spread out during the whole fight.

    So tired of people like you, who dont even raid and comment on raiding issues. Stick to LFR discussions, please.
    so tired of people like you who raid and make me proud to not raid with you people, blizzard's done said world first 10/25 doesn't matter, first to down is the first to claim glory.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Eec003 View Post
    so sad to tell you but they got the world first no matter what raid size.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-24 at 07:07 PM ----------



    so tired of people like you who raid and make me proud to not raid with you people, blizzard's done said world first 10/25 doesn't matter, first to down is the first to claim glory.
    The 10 man world first, ya.. even the title on MMO-C says "DREAM Paragon Heroic Lei Shen 10 Man World First".

    Blizzard never commented on it, and never will. Keep spreading BS.
    Last edited by UcanDoSht; 2013-03-24 at 11:10 PM.
    Most people do not realize the talent and skill it requires to be in a top guild. Many of you think its only about time invested, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

  7. #47
    Mechagnome BloodGutter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crushima View Post
    Gz paragon on your 10man. I look forward to the real world first on 25man
    hate to break it to you but this is the "real world first". believe what you want, in Blizzard's and the majority of the community's eyes this will be known as world 1st.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkguyver2020 View Post
    25 heroic modes take more coordination.
    will admit, you have it right there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkguyver2020 View Post
    Bosses have three times more health
    boss health ratio is balanced out so it would take the same amount of time regardless to kill him if it were 10 man or 25 man.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkguyver2020 View Post
    10 man guilds shouldn't even be competitive when it comes to world firsts.
    well that's blizzards decision and not yours unfortunatly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkguyver2020 View Post
    But I'll just wait for the real raiding guilds to kill him.
    define real raiding guilds please because that comment is invalid as Paragon is quite clearly a raiding guild.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crushima View Post
    Gz paragon on your 10man. I look forward to the real world first on 25man
    heroic world first is heroic world first, can't change that so grats Paragon on first guild in the world to kill lei shen on heroic difficulty (enough already with the whole 10 vs 25 bullshit.... got old real quick)

  9. #49
    There are three types of World Firsts - "general" (one for both 10man and 25man), 10man and 25man. Paragon scored "general" and 10man at the same time. Unfortunately this "general" WF does not feel so exciting when scored by a 10man guild. On the other hand no other guild can score "general" WF anymore so 25man WF would not be any exciting at all. Feels like Paragon should come back to 25man raiding and bring back the joy of spectating WFs. Pwease all former members of Paragon and other really talented finnish speakers start annoying Sejta by applying to this awesome guild. I need a real race...

  10. #50
    High Overlord
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    Paragon does not need an introduction. They facerolled the 25 man raiding scene and now they continue to do so in 10 man.

  11. #51
    The Lightbringer thunderdragon2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarl Balgruuf View Post
    Oh boy, first page and we're already trying to start a shitstorm.
    blame chaud he started it with the thread title

  12. #52
    Stood in the Fire Fog's Avatar
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    What I would like to see is resilience removed from gear and only given on weapons. Well, keep the passive 65% as they intend to, but I'd like to add a fair few changes.

    First off, as said, resilience on weapons only, and a great deal more power on the rest and far more set bonuses to make PvP gear act better in PvP than PvE gear. Make it 8 set, that way you can have loads of fun designing and balancing.
    On gloves you have an addition, like for warriors: "Hamstring cost 10 less rage" or something, which is great. You can always add that to more items as well, to make them more attractive in PvP.
    It won't hurt to add more stamina to the gear as well, as a defense. More HP = staying alive longer, which is always attractive in PvP.

    In my honest opinion, resilience has never worked out that well. Yes, it made the difference between PvP and PvE, but it has caused alot of problems as well. Most of the time made PvE gear better in PvP in most cases (i.e legendaries, certain trinkets, set bonuses etc to reach a certain cap to make you become a god).

    I like these new changes. Although not perfect, it's a step in the right direction to finally try and balance out PvP and its stats.

    Just airing my thoughts this late night. I might be out of my mind and regret everything tomorrow, but so be it. Haunt me if you may.

  13. #53
    The race is not over.. it's not yet world first... THEY NEED TO KILL RA-DEN. 30 attempts! DO IT!

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thirstblood View Post
    The race is not over.. it's not yet world first... THEY NEED TO KILL RA-DEN. 30 attempts! DO IT!
    Yup pretty much this, once someone takes down Ra-Den can truly claim proper world first heroic ToT.. And yes with only 30 attempts that will be noteworthy.
    Last edited by grexly75; 2013-03-25 at 12:41 AM.

  15. #55
    Herald of the Titans starkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkguyver2020 View Post
    10 man heroic kills = f**k not given. 25 heroic modes take more coordination. Bosses have three times more health and they're generally more interesting to watch. 10 man guilds shouldn't even be competitive when it comes to world firsts.
    So, yeah. Grats to Dream Paragon for killing Lei Shen. But I'll just wait for the real raiding guilds to kill him.
    Paragon is a real raiding guild just because they went 10 man doesn't take the fact away there still best at what they do, be it 10 or 25.
    You are lying! I never hit you! YOU ARE TEARING ME APART, LISA!

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaeed Massani View Post
    According to Blizzard Lei Shen is considered the end boss of the tier. Ra'den is merely a "bonus level". That's why the title is awarded by Lei Shen.
    Yeah but no one gives a shit what Blizzard has to say, if they want to matter at all for raiding progression they should have the progression leaderboard up on their website. 13/13hm is still going to be the race imo, another boss is another boss it'll count towards progression just like other limited atempt bosses did.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by starkey View Post
    Paragon is a real raiding guild just because they went 10 man doesn't take the fact away there still best at what they do, be it 10 or 25.
    Pls explain to me how they can be best if they haven´t downed 13/13???

  18. #58
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    I always find it interesting this hoo haa over raid size and is kinda sad really.. As has been said a raid is a raid whether it be 10 or 25, with 25 you have leeway when someone buys the farm to the point you can have 5 people down and still do the boss. 10 man does not have that luxury 1 to 2 people down you have little chance of getting the boss down..

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    blame chaud he started it with the thread title
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with the title. It's completely accurate.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by FixDestruNow View Post
    Pls explain to me how they can be best if they haven´t downed 13/13???
    The main difficulty in doing Ra-Den is the limit on attempts per lockout, who ever can do him within that limit and on the first go may then have something to crow about.

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