spriest need a nerf?everyteam have a spriest.

[Nicola]

Yeah if you'd put a 1min cd on it, you might aswell remove it all along, or make it only take off bubble/iceblock. It would not work for PvE at all, let alone PvP judging its needs at current state. Proposing anything like that clearly shows you don't play a priest. I'd wish you tried one, at least in PTR before doing QQ.

As for the burst, it's much easierly counterable than alot of other classes. I believe swifty posted up a vid showing how much burst other classes have, 2 mages speccs in top 3. You could check it out if you still think priest burst is over the top. Hybrid healing has already been adjusted(read:nerfed) 3 times, and offensive dispells is held by alot of other classes, spellsteal being the strongest.

None of the things are thereby doable, so i stand corrected.

I have a priest alt at 90, surprise.
In case you are not realizing it, everything I said was purely for shadow. The whole discussion is about shadow priests, not about how to completely screw over the priest class :/

Tell me, how would a 1min cd mass dispel for shadow change stuff for PvE? The healers may need to work a little bit harder, but in case you already have a priest healer, you won't be needing a shadow to dispel.

As for burst, does it matter it's easily counterable? Since I main a warlock, let's look it from my side. If my chaos bolt would hit for 300k, would the burst be overpowered? According to your logic, it's fine because it's easy to counter.
You can't always counter something in time because of cc, los, whatever, so just because it's easy to counter it doesn't mean it should be OP if not countered.

As for hybrid healing and shielding, yes, it has had several changes, nonetheless, it's too strong. And iirc the last change was a buff, not a nerf....
As for the offensive dispel, I don't mind classes having it, but dispel magic is way to cheap. What is it, 2.4% of base mana? A purge is like 16.5% and spellsteal about 21-22%... Due the ridiculous low cost it's a no skill button, you just mash it till everything is gone without having to worry about mana. Imo, that needs a change.

I understand you are a priest and don't want changes, but sometimes it's just necessary. I'm not saying priests need to get nerfed to the ground, just toned down. Some things look ridiculous, but if you think twice, you realize it won't change too much and your spec will remain viable.

[Korgoth]

L2P issue.

Psyfiend was nerfed to the ground.
Fear breaks immediately after direct DMG or a few DOT ticks.
Shadow burst has a very high ramp up time and is stationary. You can nullify Spriest dmg by walking around a corner or just dispelling it.
If there's no Mage to babysit the priest, DKs/Warriors/Rogue/Enhancer are a hardcounter.

The typical dont nerf me bro response.
#1 Always start with Learn to Play.
#2 Bring up a nerf you received no matter how ineffective and pointless it was. "25% on Conflag totally ruined my class bro!" "No Root Immunity on Avatar totally fixed everything!"
#3 Make an excuse for an extremely strong ability that is completely pointless. "But it has a cast time!" "But it's only in melee range" "But it breaks on damage"
#4 Make up an excuse relating to complication in the setup or supposed ease of avoiding it, no matter how retarded the argument is, like "just LOS it".
#5 Try to redirect at another class. "Bro, its not me its my hunter man, traps are OP!"

And that is the 5 point dont nerf bro response.

[Nicola]

The typical dont nerf me bro response.

And that is the 5 point dont nerf bro response.

Speaking out of experience?
But yes, you are right, so many responses here are from priests just trying to defense their class/spec. Shadow is currently simply too strong, and if they like it or not, it needs some small nerfs to bring them on par with other classes.

[Korgoth]

Speaking out of experience?
But yes, you are right, so many responses here are from priests just trying to defense their class/spec. Shadow is currently simply too strong, and if they like it or not, it needs some small nerfs to bring them on par with other classes.

I dont know about small. I'd remove both Life Swap and Mass Dispel from them. I think they bring comparable tools to warlocks, moonkins, and ele's without those 2 abilities, and with them it makes Shadow by far the best choice.

I think Shadow is also warping arena balance for other classes as well. Resto Shamans being pushed higher due to working well with and against Shadow Priests, while Disc Priests are pushed lower due to not working well with Shadow. It would also buff Holy Paladins. Nerfing Shadow Priests could do wonders for healer balance.

[Deleted]

The typical dont nerf me bro response.
#1 Always start with Learn to Play.
#2 Bring up a nerf you received no matter how ineffective and pointless it was. "25% on Conflag totally ruined my class bro!" "No Root Immunity on Avatar totally fixed everything!"
#3 Make an excuse for an extremely strong ability that is completely pointless. "But it has a cast time!" "But it's only in melee range" "But it breaks on damage"
#4 Make up an excuse relating to complication in the setup or supposed ease of avoiding it, no matter how retarded the argument is, like "just LOS it".
#5 Try to redirect at another class. "Bro, its not me its my hunter man, traps are OP!"

And that is the 5 point dont nerf bro response.

In reference to your number four I'm assuming you are talking about Mind Flay:Insanity which gives Mind Flay a 33% per damage increase per Shadow Orb consumed for the duration of Devouring Plague which with full orbs translates to three double damage Mind Flays which have to be hardcasted in a stationary spot for roughly six seconds. Of all the burst, which I agree there is too much of in MoP, this is the most avoidable and anticipated. You can either dispel the DP, interrupt during those six seconds of hardcasting or LoS. I really cannot remember the amount of times I pulled of three normal, consecutive MFs, never mind Insanity ones, in arenas. Take my Insanity, stick my Psychic Scream on a 2 sec cast 60 sec CD, taking away my Mass Dispel and life swap, take away shadow's access to holy/disc spells making them the only spec to have access to one specialization, and would PvP be balanced with better caster representation; because if it would I'd say bring on the nerfs.

[Deleted]

Tell me, how would a 1min cd mass dispel for shadow change stuff for PvE? The healers may need to work a little bit harder, but in case you already have a priest healer, you won't be needing a shadow to dispel.

Shadow won't be dispelling, since they can't do it frequent enough anyway. One more reason to bench shadow. Sometimes, if you don't have a priest healer, those 3x8sec dispells are not enough to effectively remove damage quick enough. Priest healers would become mandatory. More shadows would be forced to go healer. Compare it to say only let demonology have healthstones, you got a problem with that? Nerfing utility to diffrent speccs certainly doesnt have any effect lol, if just stick to your spec and let the healers "work more".

As for burst, does it matter it's easily counterable? Since I main a warlock, let's look it from my side. If my chaos bolt would hit for 300k, would the burst be overpowered? According to your logic, it's fine because it's easy to counter.
You can't always counter something in time because of cc, los, whatever, so just because it's easy to counter it doesn't mean it should be OP if not countered.

I understand and agree to that, but that was hardly the point. The biggest point was that shadow burst is not stronger than any other classes burst. If you wanna nerf it youre looking at nerfing at least 5 other classes that can burst harder, or equally hard. And that itself is not something wrong, there should be less burst in pvp, but not only for shadow, as you point it out.

As for hybrid healing and shielding, yes, it has had several changes, nonetheless, it's too strong. And iirc the last change was a buff, not a nerf....

Last change came together with a nerf, i add them together and state that the sum is a nerf all in all. One to PvP power for hybridshealing, one to healing decay, and one baseline shadow nerf to all healing spells specifically.

As for the offensive dispel, I don't mind classes having it, but dispel magic is way to cheap. What is it, 2.4% of base mana? A purge is like 16.5% and spellsteal about 21-22%... Due the ridiculous low cost it's a no skill button, you just mash it till everything is gone without having to worry about mana. Imo, that needs a change.

So you're kicking on something that is already lying down? As i said before, shadow along with arcane are the only two casters that has to worry about mana. Without it it's game over. The higher cost for the other casters doesn't really matter where as an increase for shadow would highly kick them in a groin. I hate the fact that i always oom all the time, i truly do but i have learned to live with it. I don't need to cut down on more spell usage as it is.

I understand you are a priest and don't want changes, but sometimes it's just necessary. I'm not saying priests need to get nerfed to the ground, just toned down. Some things look ridiculous, but if you think twice, you realize it won't change too much and your spec will remain viable.

You are correct, i don't want to play another season being shit, or forced to reroll again because i'm not viable in what i wanna do. I played ret in cata for instance, try to imagine my huge success. If you nerf shadow even harder, only looking in 3s, they are gonna be shit in pve, 2v2, bgs, duels, wpvp and the list goes on. I don't want that because i participate in all of them. And no i'm not a fotm reroller, i started playing my priest because it just happened to be the highest alt (char made 2007) during mid cata. I was butthurt and frustrated playing my paly and wanted a change. Changes are ok, but i don't feel more of them are justified. Some of them were for 5.2, i always thought my healing was OP and knew it was going to get nerfed in 5.04 for instance. But i really feel people are going over the edge now. They was going to give mindblast and pain buffs for pve purpouses, guess what happened to them? Canceled because people cry in 3v3 arena, and no other substitute was given to fix pve.

[Flaks]

Just to clarify something that's obvious: the reason that disc isn't well represented despite being more than a viable healer IS NOT BECAUSE ITS BAD IN ARENAS its because shadow is just that good a dps spec.

Just like ret isn't that well represented because of holy.

And ele and enh are always terribly represented because of resto.

And why WW will continue to be badly represented as long as MW is made to be viable at any level of pvp unless Blizzard gives monks the priest treatment by making the the dps spec very powerful thereby leading to lower MW rep and increased WW rep.

[Nicola]

Are you understanding that shadow is currently too strong and needs to be toned down so it's on the same line as other classes? I'm perfectly aware there are other classes that need nerfs as well >.>

I'm not saying shadow should be underpowered, and I'm not saying those things must be changes. All I say is that I'm not too happy with these things and think they could use some nerfs so shadow is balanced. Not overpowered nor underpowered.

Well, I'm not going to spend more words on this. All I see is a priest that one cannot reason with.

[Deleted]

I wanna hear specific spells that need changing, that hasnt already been nerfed, and why it would be good to nerf. Most complaints in this thread is just QQ because they are butthurt.

MD is not going to get nerfed, stated already by blizzard, so theres not much to do there, but i already would agree to perhaps remove the glyph.
LifeSwap taken away from shadow, i got nothing against that, because that spell is on 6 minute cooldown, and has ruined way too many games from malfunction, that being me losing my health but my healer dying, thus making me not even be able to go for a trade.

What else ya got?

[Deleted]

Are you understanding that shadow is currently too strong and needs to be toned down so it's on the same line as other classes? I'm perfectly aware there are other classes that need nerfs as well >.>

I'm not saying shadow should be underpowered, and I'm not saying those things must be changes. All I say is that I'm not too happy with these things and think they could use some nerfs so shadow is balanced. Not overpowered nor underpowered.

Well, I'm not going to spend more words on this. All I see is a priest that one cannot reason with.

Your either going to be one of two camps when proposing nerfs to Shadow, that they have too much utility or it has too much CC/burst. As far utility Shadow is unique in WoW as being the only DPS spec in a class which has two healing specs; which means when it's everybodies turn to get new toys to play with you can either give it a damage spell, a healing spell, or a utility spell and it's should be fairly obvious which one is preferable and why but now we are approaching a situation where we are too top heavy with utility with the past two xpacs giving us admittedly very useful tools like life grip and life swap on top of less useful but still potent utility. This is a design issue and not a nerf X by Y secs issue. The other guys are complaining about our CC and burst damage which is pretty much an endemic problem in MoP. I repeat, PvP is so godawful this xpac that Blizzard are making the biggest changes to it since TBC and arena/resi and Shadow is not the reason for broken PvP but a symptom.

[Faenskap]

Did some arenas today as a shadow priest, with arms war and holy pala. Nothing too serious, because I have no ambition neither in wow nor real life. It wasn't too bad, except for melee which sat on me the entire game (our warrior tunnels a little I think). How useful is a shadow priest with a melee up his ass? Not very, I can assure you. Train priest = win. Met another team with a shadow priest too. Guess what our warrior did? Trained shadow priest. We won. There you have their weakness, along with mana trouble. Maybe it's a L2P problem on my side, I did however do what I could with a frost dk and warrior on me - fear, root, spectral guise, physic horror with one mind blast up, but in the end, it was not enough.

[Hand Banana]

Did some arenas today as a shadow priest, with arms war and holy pala. Nothing too serious, because I have no ambition neither in wow nor real life. It wasn't too bad, except for melee which sat on me the entire game (our warrior tunnels a little I think). How useful is a shadow priest with a melee up his ass? Not very, I can assure you. Train priest = win. Met another team with a shadow priest too. Guess what our warrior did? Trained shadow priest. We won. There you have their weakness, along with mana trouble. Maybe it's a L2P problem on my side, I did however do what I could with a frost dk and warrior on me - fear, root, spectral guise, physic horror with one mind blast up, but in the end, it was not enough.

I hear this alot, the whole train the priest argument. It makes sense, an spriest cant do as much with melee training him. However the issue is the priest isnt going to die. With a teammate like a mage, lock, or unholy dk, if the melee are mindlessly tunneling the spriest then one of them is going to drop within a minute. One full poly -> psyfiend with a mage hitting a warrior? GG in a deep. The problem is your playing with a war, who really cant land kills or do a ton of pressure on their own to other melee. An unholy dk who isnt forced into blood presence can pretty much kill something or force defensive on his own pretty damn quick. 5.2 is all about the comp my good sir.

[Deleted]

Lol, yeah you know, just the normal stuff, CCs, dispells, interrupts, LoS, mobility, kiting, any melee-tunnel. Basic stuff, nothing to worry about

Seriously though have you even played one? If not i strongly suggest you do, before you paint it up like that, like priests are some supergods. There are plenty of replies to this post explaining what to do against a priest if you would just read the thread. And yes that truly is laughable that vid because it's true, priest have never been strong and suddenly when they are, 1500rated butthurt ppl scream NERF because they are not used to it. A class that never is strong don't deserve to suddenly be strong!

Hyperbole, nice job but please for the love of god use your brain, this important comment specifically "relative to other classes and more specifically, other casters".
The stuff you stated is common knowledge and every class/caster has problems with this one way or another...also did I forget to mention "RELATIVE TO OTHER CLASSES"?

There are plenty of replies to this post explaining what to do against a priest if you would just read the thread.

Did I say I wanted advice for beating a Spriest? Did I say I'm struggling against them? No. This has no relevance. Simply stating the facts here...they are insanely good right now.

priest have never been strong and suddenly when they are, 1500rated butthurt ppl scream NERF because they are not used to it.

Doesn't matter what spec, what class or what role...if something is OP then people will bitch and complain granted that certain aspects of the game such as Chaos Bolt and Fmage shatter may look OP but they are fine in others like 3s arena. Agreed in most cases that bitching has no basis for providing a clear and constructive argument. Also, Spriests have been strong for quite awhile now consistently but it's simply that they weren't dominating but are significantly stronger now.

A class that never is strong don't deserve to suddenly be strong!

I don't know why you mentioned this because but again it has no relevance here but ok.

But obviously you are just some kid who can't confront the fact that you're MAYBE the strongest caster and significantly ahead of other casters with the possible exception of Frost Mages and that balance is a scary concept to you.

[Bakis]

Did some arenas today as a shadow priest, with arms war and holy pala. Nothing too serious, because I have no ambition neither in wow nor real life. It wasn't too bad, except for melee which sat on me the entire game (our warrior tunnels a little I think). How useful is a shadow priest with a melee up his ass? Not very, I can assure you. Train priest = win. Met another team with a shadow priest too. Guess what our warrior did? Trained shadow priest. We won. There you have their weakness, along with mana trouble. Maybe it's a L2P problem on my side, I did however do what I could with a frost dk and warrior on me - fear, root, spectral guise, physic horror with one mind blast up, but in the end, it was not enough.

There is more to it than just spriest being rather easy to train (just like almost every caster).
He is simply too dangerous to not focus and I'm not just talking damage but more his utility, I mean just the fact that if you dont focus the SP one of his or her team mate will probably get a Void shift followed by Dispersion and you spent a ton of resources and cd's for basically no use at all.
I know this is just one example but you probably know the rest. Mendings, mass dispel, grips, some relly strong damage if left alone, fears etc etc.

Bottom line, shadow priests are not tunneled only cos they are fairly easy to keep uptime on.

---------- Post added 2013-03-26 at 04:44 AM ----------

I wanna hear specific spells that need changing, that hasnt already been nerfed, and why it would be good to nerf. Most complaints in this thread is just QQ because they are butthurt.

MD is not going to get nerfed, stated already by blizzard, so theres not much to do there, but i already would agree to perhaps remove the glyph.
LifeSwap taken away from shadow, i got nothing against that, because that spell is on 6 minute cooldown, and has ruined way too many games from malfunction, that being me losing my health but my healer dying, thus making me not even be able to go for a trade.

What else ya got?

Some sort of penalty for Void Shift as SP would be nice, Void Shift and Dispersion adds too much utlity in my view.
I would not want cc, 'mobility' or damage nerfed cos I dont think SP need that.

[kobalt]

just a bunch of butthurt people who need to L2P... So tell me... in cata when a spriest popped dark archangel and all of his shit and started to mind spike/mind blast spam you, did you notice if you sat there and didnt interrupt him you would fucking melt? Did you cry back then? no. because you didnt run into spriests to often. they had mass dispel back then also but instead of removing all of your teammates buffs and costing 40k fucking mana, it costed barely any mana and was spammable( so not only did it take off cc from your teammates, it dispelled every single buff the enemy team had for a fraction of the mana cost of spamming our normal purge), speaking of which we even had infinite mana back then not like now where our only way to get mana back is to spam vt all over the place and on pets and increase our vulnerability to interupts: or waste our dispersion for 36% mana ( unless you want to run behind of box and cast hymn of hope for 10 seconds for a solid 10% mana...) , although healing teammates was a little harder (doesnt matter now since healing has been nerfed a shit ton.) So tell me, how are spriest all of sudden so much different that you are all crying about them? Big burst if left not cc'd or interrupted, can still defensive and offensive dispel, and still has passive DR. The only real changes to spriests that you have reason to cry about is mabye psyfiend (imo shouldnt be a problem seeing as how it dies in 1 or 2 hits), void shift is sort of a reason to QQ, and anyone that is crying about psychic scream needs to get off this thread because that is the exact same as it always was and is the only way to get a melee off of us ( which barely works half the time seeing as how dk's have 2 trinkets and lichborne, warriors with berserker rage, shamans with tremor. monks and pallies are the only people who have reason to hate it).

[kobalt]

cc: cata vs now
cata: psychic scream, mind control, disarm, silence
now: psychic scream, disarm ( costs orbs), silence, psyfiend that gets 1 shot/ mind control if talented
self heals:
cata: Low and less accessable, mana infinite so no worries of going oom while spamming flash heal
now: After the nerfs, decent with pretty good shields, more accessable, cause you to go oom pretty damn quick.

mana in cata vs now
cata: infinite
now: spamming vt all over pets and enemy team which is hard as fuck while getting tunneled, dispersion, shitty hymn of hope
mass dispel: cata vs now
cata: spammable, low cost, no cd, didnt remove all debuffs from friendlies but it might as well have, removed all buffs from enemy team.
now: 40k mana cost, cd, removes all debuffs from friendlies.
utility: cata vs now
cata: life grip, mass dispel, purge, shields, some healing, fears and mind control, mana burn
now: life grip, in some ways improved mass dispel, purge, increased healing, same amount of fears unless psyfiend isnt killed, void shift
Damage: cata vs now
Cata: came primarily from dots, had ramp up time, big burst ( would kill you if left untouched)
now: damage comes from sitting on 3 orbs, ramp up time, big burst( would kill you if left untouched) which is also easily interuptable ( dispel procs/ fear mind bender/ interupt or silence insanity)

It may be only me but i dont see much of a damn difference between now and cata except now when spriests become more represented and people actually begin to see them in arenas, the qq comes out. Another L2P issue in my opinion.
Please feel free to add on to this list. i probably missed some things, seeing as how i typed this in like 5 minutes while tired as hell.

[Vathius]

The real issue here isnt shadow priests -its Nerf fear. Its the most broken and Buggy ability in the game

Shadow priests only seem overpowered coupled with this ridiculous ability

[Deleted]

And ele and enh are always terribly represented because of resto.

Ahahaha, no. Elemental isn't that well represented because any decent team will simply tunnel it into oblivion and it will die without doing any meaningful damage. Elemental relies on hard casting and cool downs a great deal yet it lacks the ability to actually hard cast and properly use it's cool downs.

[Nyaldee]

You sound really butthurt. Isn't this exactly what happends if a paly bubbles? Bubble is stronger than lifeswap is, and if you can't remove it with a priest/warr then it's worse. Furthermore, you could cyclone the priest during this until you can Re-cc the healer again. Other than that, as i said, you could CC the priest or interrupt him before you blow up his healer. They don't have anything to break out of CC apart from trinket unless he say, deaths a poly, in which case you got outplayed. Feral's interrupt lasts 8 seconds with glyph, do you know how that feels not being able to use your only real def-cd for 8 seconds?

I don't believe that's the case. They are only strong when they have partners with strong CC. They are limited alot to comp, has already got severly nerfed, and they are really weak if you have a melee tunnel them all game with interrupts, as previous speaker above has stated. You're just unused to the idea of priests being strong, since throughout the time they've always sucked, where as warlocks and mages have normally been strong. Give them some time to shine, that's all im saying.

[/QUOTE]

Seriously you're probably delusional, becouse buble is a self-saving cd comparable to dispersion or shieldwall (and against some team compositions it's worse of then those too) whille lifeswap is a BEST teammate saver ingame aviable to spec with fuckton of cc/utility. Only thing better then lifeswap is LoH and it isn't usable in arena.

Also every caster class ingame can be trained by melee, even mages and often to great success so no need to sound like it's a weakness exlusive to SP. Hell i trained warlocks through most of BC and been trained on warlock through WolTK by dks, wars, rogues, enchs and their bros, moms and pops so stop crying a river how you've to play under preassure since with amount of instant cc aviable now it's not even remotely close to previous expansions.

Also stop sprewing bullshit like "give them time to shine", SP were glad/r1 viable through most of arena history be it shadowplay or rogue/sp or shatterplay or 5v5 dotcleaves or rogue/sham/sp and so on. And "They are only strong when they have partners with strong CC" argument is also invalid becouse dk/sp/healer is exeptionally strong atm, besides most classes have strong cc so it's not like SPs have problems in finding a proper setup to play in unlike monks, enchs, rets, elems and even locks.

No need to insults with "butthurts" or whatever when you're clueless enough to think that SPs being favoured over almost all other casters is a natual occurence and should be kept this way.

[Deleted]

I can't grasp how people can QQ on the CC a shadow priest brings, they got 1 fear and a root OR a weak npc that fears players, their third one costs shadow orbs which means they need to sacrifice damage for it, not to mention their only interupt is on a 45 second cooldown. CC is not the problem, its the off heals/shields and life swap being available to shadow.