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  1. #121
    Legendary! Korgoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrono666 View Post
    Honestly shadow priests are in a pretty fair position. Sitting at a midway point where mages could be brought down to their level and locks and boom chickens could be brought up a bit to that level. They have obvious strengths and enough relevant utility to reward a high skill-cap, while still having a glaring counter (Melee train of any sort). Maybe we don't need to hop in to the nerf mob, but instead accept that spriests can serve as a model for the power level of caster dps in arena.
    You must be playing at the very low end to think that shadow priests have a glaring counter. Or that Melee train even works well right now. It doesnt, largely because of shadow priests bringing 70% of the effectiveness of a 2nd healer while still bringing 100% of a DPS; meaning when fighting a shadow priest team it is very hard to kill the healer, which is what Melee Train does well, and its hard to kill anyone else because the shadow priest can dispel their healer, and you know instantly full heal them or grip them across the map, or just straight up shield and spam heals; let alone killing the priest with their guaranteed out in Dispersion.

    From my perspective at 2.2k right now (im on a warrior you try it!) I fight Shadow Priests more often then any other dps; but then again they are the best class to play with for pretty much everyone except like hunters.
    "Gamer" is not a bad word. I identify as a gamer. When calling out those who persecute and harass, the word you're looking for is "asshole." @_DonAdams
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  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    You must be playing at the very low end to think that shadow priests have a glaring counter. Or that Melee train even works well right now. It doesnt, largely because of shadow priests bringing 70% of the effectiveness of a 2nd healer while still bringing 100% of a DPS; meaning when fighting a shadow priest team it is very hard to kill the healer, which is what Melee Train does well, and its hard to kill anyone else because the shadow priest can dispel their healer, and you know instantly full heal them or grip them across the map, or just straight up shield and spam heals; let alone killing the priest with their guaranteed out in Dispersion.

    From my perspective at 2.2k right now (im on a warrior you try it!) I fight Shadow Priests more often then any other dps; but then again they are the best class to play with for pretty much everyone except like hunters.
    You're right I'm not playing at the super high-end, more in the 16-1700 range. But it just seems to me like you are making the off healing sound better than it is. In reality it seems like you should be able to break a 60k absorb shield and interrupt a flash that costs what, 8% base mana with a 1.5 cast time and the likelihood to heal like 50-60k? There is a good point to be made that the class may have far too many ways to interact with a healer in a tight spot (Grip, shift, etc.).

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by chrono666 View Post
    You're right I'm not playing at the super high-end, more in the 16-1700 range. But it just seems to me like you are making the off healing sound better than it is. In reality it seems like you should be able to break a 60k absorb shield and interrupt a flash that costs what, 8% base mana with a 1.5 cast time and the likelihood to heal like 50-60k? There is a good point to be made that the class may have far too many ways to interact with a healer in a tight spot (Grip, shift, etc.).
    Flash Heal healed for that in 5.0, now you're looking at like 35k at best, less if mortal strike is up.

    But spriests don't heal with Flash Heal so much, it's mostly Renew, PoM and divine star. There's also the VE on 3 min CD. The shield and Star is the strongest in the arsenal, bout 60-65k each.

    sPriest healing over 15 seconds is roughly equal to 11.5k dps with some half-arsed math, this being before any healing-decay, mortal strike or crits, given the priest uses everything apart from VE or DP. So hypothetically it's just a bit lower than second wind, but in practise it probably isnt this high, i'd say it may be 8-9k dps or so.
    Last edited by wiep; 2013-03-27 at 08:48 PM.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by joepesci View Post
    SPs have silence = interrupt, and any form of CC is also an interrupt.
    Horror acts as a stun basically, you can damage your opponent while CCed without breaking the CC (that's more or less the definition of stun).

    Healer are healers... that's a different story.
    Most healers have a stun, interrupt and/or silence (either baseline or talented)... except priests. Just saying.

  5. #125
    The Insane Bakis's Avatar
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    Alot of die hard dont-nerf-me-bro in here, I just presume they are out of touch with ladders.
    Russia isn't afraid of US dude. That's why they are sending their bombers like 60km out of your shores. Infact they give 0 fucks. They know you wont dare to touch them.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    You must be playing at the very low end to think that shadow priests have a glaring counter. Or that Melee train even works well right now. It doesnt, largely because of shadow priests bringing 70% of the effectiveness of a 2nd healer while still bringing 100% of a DPS; meaning when fighting a shadow priest team it is very hard to kill the healer, which is what Melee Train does well, and its hard to kill anyone else because the shadow priest can dispel their healer, and you know instantly full heal them or grip them across the map, or just straight up shield and spam heals; let alone killing the priest with their guaranteed out in Dispersion.

    From my perspective at 2.2k right now (im on a warrior you try it!) I fight Shadow Priests more often then any other dps; but then again they are the best class to play with for pretty much everyone except like hunters.
    it surely isnt that hard to chuck some CC at the priest. after all if that priest was a moonkin you'd be getting knockbks/vortex/rooted. or if it was a mage you'd be getting nova'd all allowing the healer to get some breathing room. Shadow just does this with healing. Albeit it does work well. your 70% healing with 100% dps is a little off too though, a priest who is spending ANY globals healing obviously isnt doing their max dps.

    The only thing i think is silly about shadow atm is a fully geared spriest using solace. with tier2 + upgrades+ some tyranical you are looking at 40k crits from the flay alone, 20k non crits include the dots 6k each/12k crits and the devouring plague / shadowfiend and solace really does work too well for bursting.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by stickyjam View Post
    it surely isnt that hard to chuck some CC at the priest. after all if that priest was a moonkin you'd be getting knockbks/vortex/rooted. or if it was a mage you'd be getting nova'd all allowing the healer to get some breathing room. Shadow just does this with healing. Albeit it does work well. your 70% healing with 100% dps is a little off too though, a priest who is spending ANY globals healing obviously isnt doing their max dps.

    The only thing i think is silly about shadow atm is a fully geared spriest using solace. with tier2 + upgrades+ some tyranical you are looking at 40k crits from the flay alone, 20k non crits include the dots 6k each/12k crits and the devouring plague / shadowfiend and solace really does work too well for bursting.
    I guess sp's have their setups etc, but look at casters atm boomers, wlocks and ele's are in a shit state( i feel atleast ) PvP needs an overhaul, it's not sp;s that are extremely op; not more than rogues surely, its just that cc abnd utility is so imbalanced. Now just reroll the class with the highest quotient of dmg, healing and cc. GG

    Id rather see some more pvp where whos actually playing the character matters, as opposed to gauranteed getting trained etc.

  8. #128
    Shadow priest is too op atm.

    Mod edit: Please post constructive
    Last edited by Nicola; 2013-03-28 at 07:22 PM.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by wiep View Post
    But spriests don't heal with Flash Heal so much, it's mostly Renew, PoM and divine star.
    Divine Star is really a self only heal.

    From what I've seen, most top 2s and 3s priests run with Halo for a chance at a 100K crit during a burst sequence.

    A double tap divine star in full Tyrannical with no procs or CDs heals for about 55K. A Flash Heal does about 52K. This was performed in world with PvP power but no Battle Fatigue or Mortal Strike. With Battle Fatigue up, double tap Divine Star is about a 40K heal, not all that great overall.
    Last edited by yurano; 2013-03-28 at 05:51 PM.

  10. #130
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by stickyjam View Post
    it surely isnt that hard to chuck some CC at the priest. after all if that priest was a moonkin you'd be getting knockbks/vortex/rooted. or if it was a mage you'd be getting nova'd all allowing the healer to get some breathing room. Shadow just does this with healing. Albeit it does work well. your 70% healing with 100% dps is a little off too though, a priest who is spending ANY globals healing obviously isnt doing their max dps.

    The only thing i think is silly about shadow atm is a fully geared spriest using solace. with tier2 + upgrades+ some tyranical you are looking at 40k crits from the flay alone, 20k non crits include the dots 6k each/12k crits and the devouring plague / shadowfiend and solace really does work too well for bursting.
    Solace and insanity does make mind flay very strong, but do shadow priests really get to channel it that much in arenas? I've only done non-rated BGs and it's nice there, certainly, but I can't imagine getting much free channeling time at higher levels.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    Divine Star is really a self only heal.

    From what I've seen, most top 2s and 3s priests run with Halo for a chance at a 100K crit during a burst sequence.

    A double tap divine star in full Tyrannical with no procs or CDs heals for about 55K. A Flash Heal does about 52K. This was performed in world with PvP power but no Battle Fatigue or Mortal Strike. With Battle Fatigue up, double tap Divine Star is about a 40K heal, not all that great overall.
    Yeah well both divine star and halo are used, but halo is not used as much as before since the nerf though. The last talent-tier spell is not really that important anyway .

    That flash heal data seems really optimistic though, don't think mine does that but i can't check it atm as i'm on holiday from my gaming computer.
    Last edited by wiep; 2013-03-28 at 10:33 PM.

  12. #132
    BREAKING NEWS: Last minute defensive stance buff will re introduce in nature hordes of warrior.Warrior with 1 less stun every 20 sec but with much more sustained damage.

    Estimated numbers of S.Pirests in hig rated arena: 0.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Purpleisbetter View Post
    BREAKING NEWS: Last minute defensive stance buff will re introduce in nature hordes of warrior.Warrior with 1 less stun every 20 sec but with much more sustained damage.

    Estimated numbers of S.Pirests in hig rated arena: 0.
    Pretty sure thats for 5.3.

    More wars doesnt effect spriest at all. Dks are way more of a problem for priests than warriors are anyway.

    Even if that buff were for now, spriests would still be dominant. Just a quick view of US bgs Im pretty sure at least 50% of r1 teams have an spriest on them. Top 10 on most bgs have 5-6 spriests. They are the strongest dps class in 3s currently, anything else is just not correct.

  14. #134
    Legendary! Korgoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purpleisbetter View Post
    BREAKING NEWS: Last minute defensive stance buff will re introduce in nature hordes of warrior.Warrior with 1 less stun every 20 sec but with much more sustained damage.

    Estimated numbers of S.Pirests in hig rated arena: 0.
    Its like 1 week into the PTR how is that Last Minute? Cmon. And shadow priests were just as out of line last patch too, it was hard for the low end players to notice with so many KFCs. Warriors not sucking is no reason for shadow priests to still be better to take into 3s then almost everything. It's no reason for SP to be so powerful that locks or ele or moonkins can't get spots. No reason at all.
    "Gamer" is not a bad word. I identify as a gamer. When calling out those who persecute and harass, the word you're looking for is "asshole." @_DonAdams
    When you see someone in a thread making the same canned responses over and over, click their name, click view forum posts, and see if they are a troll. Then don't feed them.

  15. #135
    Patch 5.3 PTR - Build 16781
    Build 16781 will be deployed to the PTR realms soon.

    Looks to be a last minute change :X .

    Btw yeah i know, its 5.3 but if u played arenas with any priest spec u should know how warriors dramatically hard countered you. During Yaspresents, a weaker then 5.3 Warrior could sit on a much stronger then 5.2 S.Priest tunnelling their way to victory. And the priest was Talbadar, not really a rookie.
    Warrior changes have a gigantic impact on Priest class, no way to deny this, no need to either.

    p.s.: yeah i know, as it stands its either s.priest/ mage or go melee. It's sad. But in this case, Eles Boomies and Locks have to be improved and this has really NOTHING to do with s.priest at all.

  16. #136
    d stance going back to 25% isnt going to bring the "hordes" of warriors back, warriors need a little buff to their d, because a warrior in battle stance is one of the squishiest things in the game right now

    meanwhile, im here watching cdew getting frustrated because spriests, in his words, can 100-0 someone just like that.

  17. #137
    You nerf shadow and Spriests will be a laughing joke in PVE and won't be worth bringing to raids.

    The only thing you can nerf on them is their CC.

  18. #138
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan View Post
    You nerf shadow and Spriests will be a laughing joke in PVE and won't be worth bringing to raids.

    The only thing you can nerf on them is their CC.
    You'd be surprised how many things they can change without ruining shadow for PvE. Heck, they can even buff shadow priests for PvE and nerf them for PvP at the same time.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    You'd be surprised how many things they can change without ruining shadow for PvE. Heck, they can even buff shadow priests for PvE and nerf them for PvP at the same time.
    e.g. that proposed devouring plague change they reverted last patch.

    Damage wise the only thing really wrong with priest is solace. everything else most top tier classes have equivalent abilities. dots, burst, sustained etc.

    Solace and insanity does make mind flay very strong, but do shadow priests really get to channel it that much in arenas? I've only done non-rated BGs and it's nice there, certainly, but I can't imagine getting much free channeling time at higher levels.
    Pretty much all the 2.2k+ shadows are running with it. FDCL would be better if you had your rabbits foot(i.e. rng just kept feeding you procs) but sometimes it'll provide you dry spells and thts where consistent Solace comes in line it up with a kidney shot/ deep freeze and you'll get some full channels off during a time your rogue/mage/INSERT class performs their burst.


    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    Its like 1 week into the PTR how is that Last Minute? Cmon. And shadow priests were just as out of line last patch too, it was hard for the low end players to notice with so many KFCs. Warriors not sucking is no reason for shadow priests to still be better to take into 3s then almost everything. It's no reason for SP to be so powerful that locks or ele or moonkins can't get spots. No reason at all.

    Ele shaman is too trainable.
    Moonkin are scaling really well, their starsurges are getting higher and higher to the point we may see some 200k crits which will make them highly viable
    I also predict as secondary stats grow afflictions viability for RLS/shadowplay will improve. affliction is highly viable in shadowcleave. in that instance i'd rather take a 2.2k lock vs a 1750 shadow priest.

    Quote Originally Posted by thisnamesucks View Post
    Pretty sure thats for 5.3.

    More wars doesnt effect spriest at all. Dks are way more of a problem for priests than warriors are anyway.

    Even if that buff were for now, spriests would still be dominant. Just a quick view of US bgs Im pretty sure at least 50% of r1 teams have an spriest on them. Top 10 on most bgs have 5-6 spriests. They are the strongest dps class in 3s currently, anything else is just not correct.
    Playing shadow i'd get more casts off with a dk on me vs a good warrior. a warrior specd interupting shout, warbringer, good pummels etc.

    Checking misery(contains Outlands larget EU ally) ladders on EU, actually shows quite a diverse set of comps.

    1.Thugcleave
    2. Thugcleave
    3. god comp
    4. shatterplay w/hpally.
    5. Shadowcleave/unholycleave whatever you wanna call it, the affliction version.
    6. RLD
    7. RLS
    8.RMP
    9. Single Hpally.
    10. Ret/hunter/Disc

    So actually of the top10 on misery 2 out of 10 contain shadow priests and actually we have a very diverse range of comps.
    Admittedly its the start of the season but its look pretty good to me.


    Though in fairness to your point i checked stormscales BG cyclone. and 6 out of the top 10 are shadow tho we have a good variety of comps :
    shadow/boomkin/Rshaman.
    shadow/rogue/Rdruid
    Shadow/Rogue/X(healer left)
    Shadowplay
    RPS
    6th is a non priest comp Rshaman/Boomkin/mage.
    7th shadow/feral/X
    8th boomkin/lock/Rshaman
    9th Shatterplay with hpally
    10th junglecleave.

    and tbf alot of the shadow priests are high experience players

    vindication has 4/10 shadow priests. of which every comp is different.

    rampage has 4/10 shadow of which every comp is different, though the top comp on that server contains mutiple classes as the shadow/shaman/X and all highly XP.


    just to add some more data.

    for EU.

    Has shadow in R1 spot: 7

    16 realms inc 2 russian realms as we can queue them and they're on armory so why not.

    7/16 makes 43%.


    but its also very early in the season any returning rogues will still be grinding gear and they may choose to not RPS but to thugcleave.

    in any case i'd happily agree 43% might be a little high despite most of the shadows at R1 being past gladiators.

    The best thing about going through the ladders were seeing gladiator spot ele/moonkin/locks which counters the arguements of others earlier.
    Last edited by stickyjam; 2013-03-29 at 09:27 AM.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabbynator View Post
    i feel 35% of spriest will get glad this season.this remember me the kfc from last season^^

    atm im playing moonkin,disc,unh dk and we are rank 2 on retal 6 mins for queue pop take forever to grind rating

    life swap, only reason....

    take that away and their representation goes down 50% at least.

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