1. #1

    crazy resto idea. different healing

    hi all,

    i had a weird idea. i have seen a disc healer do it on his priest. and thaught might take a try it my self. changing my spec and healing out of the box ( other stats/talents).
    ill post here when i have treid it out. feedback and idea's are welcome.

    current stats are: 10k spirit, haste to the 6k+ cap, the rest is mastery.
    current talent build for normal healing:http://www.wowhead.com/talent#dlH|bsRR0M , for cooldown healing incarnation and nature's vigil.


    i was thinking of a more tank healing/uphealing spec and less on my hots ( yes i am that crazy)
    so for talents i am thinking this build :http://www.wowhead.com/talent#dlZ|qsuR0M
    okay why i picked somethings. force of nature. soul of the forest is nice. but i wont give extra ticks because i am going to use single heal spells, incarnation would still be nice but i would only use it for big cooldown heal fights. so treants seem the smartes idea. for uphealing.
    in the last tree they all are still good. 6% is nice and every 90 seconds extra healing power is also nice. but i think if i do a good rotation i can have the most use out dream of cenarius.

    glyphs i think: glyph of blooming for extra strong healing from life bloom. regroth for a quick cooldown heal, and nourish glyph because even if i go full single target heal an rejuv never hurth anyone.....except if you got a weird debuff.

    ....okay and now the stats. i am thinking about the following.
    intellect as much as i can. spirit depends mabye go a bit less ( have 2 nice trinket that make me have about 12k spirit on avarge).
    ditching mastery offcourse no use for it. haste i would think to about the level that makes healing touch cast time about 2 seconds a bit higher mabye. after that all to crit.

    healing spells would be. lifebloom for the cc proc, rejuv for faster nourish ( and mabye loose the blooming glyph and take the rejuvation glyph that makes nourish stronger on the target affected by by rejuvantion). and regrowth and nourish offcourse.


    please comment with idea's etc. this is just something i thaught off. so may change allot after trying stuff out.

  2. #2
    After 22-23k SP buffed (from memory) mastery becomes more valuable than intellect at a 2:1 ratio. So Gem mastery instead of int if you can maintain the haste you want to be at. And let me know how you go. What level are you raiding at and how many/what type are your other healers? Post logs if you can

  3. #3
    Just to clear some things up:
    1) Nourish always heals for +20% if the target has a rejuv., lifebloom, regrowth HoT or wild growth on them [Source: http://www.wowdb.com/spells/50464-nourish]
    2) The glyph of rejuvenation reduces the cast time of our nourish by 30% when 3 or more rejuvs are out [Source: http://www.wowdb.com/spells/56955-gl...-rejuvenation]
    3) resto druids mastery increases our direct healing as well as our periodic healing while the harmony buff is active [Source: http://www.wowdb.com/spells/77495-mastery-harmony]
    Hence, mastery would be valued higher than crit even in this peculiar "model" of yours for restoration healing as it buffs our single target heals.

    Just something to think about.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Lleaff View Post
    After 22-23k SP buffed (from memory) mastery becomes more valuable than intellect at a 2:1 ratio. So Gem mastery instead of int if you can maintain the haste you want to be at. And let me know how you go. What level are you raiding at and how many/what type are your other healers? Post logs if you can
    Do you have a source? I would be interested in seeing it

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Lleaff View Post
    After 22-23k SP buffed (from memory) mastery becomes more valuable than intellect at a 2:1 ratio. So Gem mastery instead of int if you can maintain the haste you want to be at. And let me know how you go. What level are you raiding at and how many/what type are your other healers? Post logs if you can
    I havent heard about that yet, I would love a source, because this does sound very interesting. I think most people should be around this value right now!

  6. #6
    to respond:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lleaff View Post
    After 22-23k SP buffed (from memory) mastery becomes more valuable than intellect at a 2:1 ratio. So Gem mastery instead of int if you can maintain the haste you want to be at. And let me know how you go. What level are you raiding at and how many/what type are your other healers? Post logs if you can
    didnt know that about intellect vs mastery . would like to know more about that because my normal spec is going over that spellpower "cap" right now. dodnt have logs of my self. you can check batavorum on alonsus server : charchter name is santeri. i heal with ( ussaly) a paladin healer and/or monk healer and/or disc healer. so have allot of overhealing right now....think the top overhealing i did was 79.8 % :S:S
    last few raids as resto druid : ds 8/8 hc, msv 6/6, hof 4/6 ( on farm), toes 3/4 ( on farm)


    to craigp100: nr1. yup i miss type/confused my self with that. and the rejuvantion glyph thats what i ment :P. only the last one has me always confused. at the last one i was flat out wrong :P:P always hot healed

    thnx for the responses so far

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Lleaff View Post
    After 22-23k SP buffed (from memory) mastery becomes more valuable than intellect at a 2:1 ratio. So Gem mastery instead of int if you can maintain the haste you want to be at. And let me know how you go. What level are you raiding at and how many/what type are your other healers? Post logs if you can
    I've never ever heard about that nor have I seen top resto druids gem that way. I currently have 29,912 spell power fully unbuffed (And I use intellect flasks), 6345 mastery rating unbuffed and I rank top 10 quite a bit.

    More proof P L Z

  8. #8
    I dont understand what your crazy idea is ???

    I had high mastery and sotf since it came out and spirit as low as possible (which lately i am considering changing) since i was doing 25man with min 6 healers.

    Saying one stat after a certain % is more valuable does't make sense . Why it is more valuable after a certain % ??? With that logic why not stack crit who affects all spells perhaps after a certain % it is more helpful . I have seen in elitist jerks the discussion about mastery and intellect but no real proof has been made concerning if above a certain % it is more helpful. Interesting fact is that you can gem a 480 mastery to reach another % but still thats not necessary true since alot of people ignore the fact that mastery we get from raid buffs is not a flat number . 3000 Mastery / 480 (each point) is 6,25% mastery(harmony) increase not 6% .

    I have played around with all glyphs and still dont find a use for getting lifebloom glyph of bloom. While with new haste change to sotf you might get extra ticks (with sotf active) leting lifebloom expires is not worth it .

    What haste cap do you reach with 6k+?? the 6379 for bloom is assuming no haste buff from raids if you are talking about it.

    I was the one saying that trees get a 6th cast above 6k haste which might look good on paper but it will worth using it if we could get 7th cast (i have test it with troll's racial and still did't get 7th cast) out of it . I have played around with trees in different situation in first bosses at TOT normal but still think wild growth with sotf (or rejuv at sotf) is a better option since trees casting healing touch is very slow way of healing people i would prefer them to blanket raid with rejuvs to make it directly compete incarnation talent affecting directly the performance for 25man resto druids which is the main problem right now .

    In general when i saw the title crazy ideas i thought of something new like what i tried to become a healer with boomkin spec (I manage to heal some heroics and outheal some people in lfr) but that will require alot of spirit to be able to blanket raids with rejuvs and cast healing touch (tried all 3 talents from last tier of talents)

  9. #9
    I dont remember seeing the exact number, but the 2:1 mastery int discussion was actually contained in a thread about resto spirit and if it should be gemmed at 2:1 instead of intellect. I remember the conclusions regarding mastery to be the same that Lleaf was referencing above...that at a certain SP, mastery will be better than int 2:1. I dont remember the numbers and can't find the old thread (it was locked out because it turned into a flamefest, which really stinks because it was one of the best theorycraft threads i've read in awhile). But it was proven with numbers. I know Dendreck and dracodraco were the two main posters doing the theorycrafting, so they might be able to shed more light if they are reading this thread.

  10. #10
    Yeah it was a good thread - i just went and did a little napkin math (ok a lot) to compare how int versus mastery affects the output of Rejuv, Regrowth and Wildgrowth.

    Assuming 25k spellpower and the druid using HOTW, mastery in a 2:1 scenario such as gemming, mastery yieled a 6% larger gain.
    Ex: 701 gain for 480 mastery, 661 gain for 240 int (281 accounting for the int being multiplied by 1.05*1.05*1.06 for armor bonus, kings/mark, HoTW)

    Using 20k spellpower, Int gain was 11% larger than the mastery gain.

    Using 23k spellpower, 2 mastery versus 1 int was nearly equal (tiny bit higher for int on some spells, tiny bit for mastery on others but we are talking less than 0.05% difference)

    So that's some rough math but it looks like once you start passing 23k spellpower, in terms of gemming, 2 mastery start to beat out 1 int. If you are not using HOTW, it would occur at a lower lever of spellpower.

    (granted this did not take into account that Intellect also increases spellcrit by a tiny tiny tiny percentage, nor that intellect also increase the damage of your offensive spells/abilities; which are minor benefits but warranted mention)
    Last edited by Keiyra; 2013-03-25 at 08:57 PM.

  11. #11
    the math is in the EJ thread on page 35 (can't post links yet) starts back a page i think but the conclusion is there. Someone also takes into account crit from INT somewhere but its not a big diff. As a general rule - if you are above 23k SP (which most of you should be) and you have enough spirit, gem mastery in applicable slots.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    to respond:



    didnt know that about intellect vs mastery . would like to know more about that because my normal spec is going over that spellpower "cap" right now. dodnt have logs of my self. you can check batavorum on alonsus server : charchter name is santeri. i heal with ( ussaly) a paladin healer and/or monk healer and/or disc healer. so have allot of overhealing right now....think the top overhealing i did was 79.8 % :S:S
    last few raids as resto druid : ds 8/8 hc, msv 6/6, hof 4/6 ( on farm), toes 3/4 ( on farm)


    to craigp100: nr1. yup i miss type/confused my self with that. and the rejuvantion glyph thats what i ment :P. only the last one has me always confused. at the last one i was flat out wrong :P:P always hot healed

    thnx for the responses so far
    How can you have raids on farm, when u havent even cleared them yet? =P I think we have different idea about "farm"

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Lleaff View Post
    the math is in the EJ thread on page 35 (can't post links yet) starts back a page i think but the conclusion is there. Someone also takes into account crit from INT somewhere but its not a big diff. As a general rule - if you are above 23k SP (which most of you should be) and you have enough spirit, gem mastery in applicable slots.
    It depends on both your current sp and mastery.
    quote from EJ thread page 22:

    TotalSP = 22605 + 0.5843*mastery

    That I think is the most useful result. If the left side of above equation is higher, gem mastery, if the right side is higher, gem Int.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by insanedruid View Post
    It depends on both your current sp and mastery.
    quote from EJ thread page 22:

    TotalSP = 22605 + 0.5843*mastery

    That I think is the most useful result. If the left side of above equation is higher, gem mastery, if the right side is higher, gem Int.
    Awesome thanks. Two points to remember when figuring out the above formula is the 3k mastery raid buff and the 10% spellpower raid buff. Make sure to account for those before you regem your gear. (which thankfully i did just before i cut any of the gems lol)
    Last edited by Keiyra; 2013-03-26 at 05:15 PM.

  15. #15
    I'm just wondering if an int and crit build can compete with int/mastery at least in tank healing sense. We can free the regrowth glyph since additional crit doesn't benefit it and if crit rating is high enough regrowth might crit really often?. Might be running 1) Lifebloom 2)Nourish 3) Wild Growth.

    If not mistaken 600 crit rating equals to 1 % crit chance. if we dump like 6k crit rating that would give a whooping 10% crit chance + another 5% from raid buff and high int with HotW?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by necromorphs View Post
    I'm just wondering if an int and crit build can compete with int/mastery at least in tank healing sense. We can free the regrowth glyph since additional crit doesn't benefit it and if crit rating is high enough regrowth might crit really often?. Might be running 1) Lifebloom 2)Nourish 3) Wild Growth.

    If not mistaken 600 crit rating equals to 1 % crit chance. if we dump like 6k crit rating that would give a whooping 10% crit chance + another 5% from raid buff and high int with HotW?
    The simple answer is no.

    Mastery is better then crit for most of our spells.
    The spells that crit is better are HT, nourish and SM direct.
    As for regrowth mastery scales better than crit as regrowth has a high base crit rate.(side note: the hot part does not have the +60% crit).
    Even in pure tank healing, I'm quite sure that rejuv and lifebloom heal the most.

    And why would you use glyph of rejuv? Yes the nourish is 30% faster(with 3 active rejuv) but it's still our lowest HPET spell by far.
    I can't think of any situition that you would want to use nourish to heal.

  17. #17
    You are forgeting something when you says mastery*2 > int.

    When you have to dps with hotw your wrath don't scale with mastery and will deal less damage.
    Wrath crit for 400K is cool !
    Boulé, healing druid, EU-Arak-arahm
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyubey
    So if you ever feel like dying for the sake of the universe, please call me anytime.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by necromorphs View Post
    I'm just wondering if an int and crit build can compete with int/mastery at least in tank healing sense.
    Not really, mostly because it takes 600 Crit rating, to get 1% crit (and therefore about 1% more healing). Whereas it only takes 480 mastery rating to get 1% increased healing from mastery.

    6k crit is 10%, versus 6k mastery being 12.5%

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