1. #1

    A past so brutal

    Today 25th of March is the date the Greeks celebrate and honour the start of their revolution against the Ottoman Empire.

    I was watching a documentary on TV and what amazed me was several things.

    The term nation, and more specifically Greek nation, was not coherent between the enslaved population. It was a notion established by western Europeans, who admired the ancient Greek civilization and considered the enslaved population as their ancestors. Influenced by the French revolution many Greeks and Western Europeans "Pro Greek" slowly established this notion of a Greek nation.

    The Christian Church was loyal to the Ottomans till the very last moment of the revolution.

    During the revolution tens of thousands innocent Greeks AND ottomans were slaughtered. First the revolted Greeks slaughtered the ottomans of the Peloponese so that the Ottoman Emperor counteracted and slaughtered thousands of Greeks.

    I dont know why I am writing all these. I guess the massacre of innocent people shocks me. Its been a long way since 1821. I want to believe that all this brutality is a thing of the past. I can't believe any modern Greek or Turk would slaughter anyone in the 21st century.
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    The problem is warriors are not easy to kill like we were in cata and people are mad at that
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeshak View Post
    Today 25th of March is the date the Greeks celebrate and honour the start of their revolution against the Ottoman Empire.

    I was watching a documentary on TV and what amazed me was several things.

    The term nation, and more specifically Greek nation, was not coherent between the enslaved population. It was a notion established by western Europeans, who admired the ancient Greek civilization and considered the enslaved population as their ancestors. Influenced by the French revolution many Greeks and Western Europeans "Pro Greek" slowly established this notion of a Greek nation.

    The Christian Church was loyal to the Ottomans till the very last moment of the revolution.

    During the revolution tens of thousands innocent Greeks AND ottomans were slaughtered. First the revolted Greeks slaughtered the ottomans of the Peloponese so that the Ottoman Emperor counteracted and slaughtered thousands of Greeks.

    I dont know why I am writing all these. I guess the massacre of innocent people shocks me. Its been a long way since 1821. I want to believe that all this brutality is a thing of the past. I can't believe any modern Greek or Turk would slaughter anyone in the 21st century.
    By church you mean the Patriarchate in Constantinople, which was heavily overseen by the Ottoman Porte.

    The actual churches out in the countryside are one of the main reasons the Greeks were successful at all. Many of them maintained secret classes teaching Greek history and language, and kept Greek identity alive. And many, many priests fought as rebels as well.

    And of course when you rise up against occupiers you're going to slaughter them if you can. You don't rise up and politely ask them to leave with a strongly-worded letter.

    Anyway, yes, us Greeks declared our independence March 25, 1821.

    I know Greeks are generally looked down on by western and northern Europeans (and Americans from my own experiences living in the US) and looked at like parasites due to the actions of our government, but haters are gonna hate. We were here long before these problems, and we'll be around long after. We're a tougher breed than most will ever give us credit for.

    ZHTO H ELLAS


  3. #3
    When the topic of Greece comes up I always get somewhat sad that ancient lands of Hellenistic people for thousand of years, is today Turkey =/

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    When the topic of Greece comes up I always get somewhat sad that ancient lands of Hellenistic people for thousand of years, is today Turkey =/
    I dont know your nationality - but thats exactly what lead the Western Europeans start the notion of the Revolution. Perhaps without those ideals the revolution might have been delayed or never happened.
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    The problem is warriors are not easy to kill like we were in cata and people are mad at that
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.

  5. #5
    'Innocent ottomans'? How can occupants be 'innocent'?

    Don't even hope that people of Europe have forgotten or forgiven all the atrocities which your empire performed.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Tackhisis View Post
    'Innocent ottomans'? How can occupants be 'innocent'?

    Don't even hope that people of Europe have forgotten or forgiven all the atrocities which your empire performed.
    The actions of people in command doesn't necessarily represent the actions of farmers, peasants, traders etc.

    And if by "your" you refer to me, I am Greek.
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    The problem is warriors are not easy to kill like we were in cata and people are mad at that
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeshak View Post
    The actions of people in command doesn't necessarily represent the actions of farmers, peasants, traders etc.

    And if by "your" you refer to me, I am Greek.
    The number of Turk killed by their subjects is minuscule compared to the numbers killed by Turkish troops. Of course when you rise up against an occupier and enslaver they become targets.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by atsawin26 View Post
    The number of Turk killed by their subjects is minuscule compared to the numbers killed by Turkish troops. Of course when you rise up against an occupier and enslaver they become targets.
    I believe war "etiquette" and morals has changed a lot since then in terms of that we try to avoid casualties as much as possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    The problem is warriors are not easy to kill like we were in cata and people are mad at that
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeshak View Post
    I believe war "etiquette" and morals has changed a lot since then in terms of that we try to avoid casualties as much as possible.
    Yeah, even the people who wrote those rules in the west barely follow them, and they're the global privileged. How well do you think those rules go over in a historically rough area like the Balkans?

    War etiquette...lol

  10. #10
    The Lightbringer Simulacrum's Avatar
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    I'm not sure how you can find a war that barely killed some 100k "shockingly brutal", when we had a war that did in some 70 million+ within living memory, preceded by this other war that did in some 40+ million, nevermind all the "minor" wars that only killed a few hundred thousand to a couple of millions?

    Napoleon was even pissing about in europe at about the time, and that whole mess resulted in some 5-6 million dead. The greek war of independence sounds downright delightful by comparison!
    Dr Johnson, they said: “we are delighted to find that you’ve not included any indecent or obscene words in your dictionary.”
    “Ladies, said dr Johnson, “I can congratulate you on being able to look them up.”

  11. #11
    Scarab Lord StayTuned's Avatar
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    Yeah let's celebrate something we achieved 200 years ago.

    Sorry, I think those things should kinda die out.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Tackhisis View Post
    'Innocent ottomans'? How can occupants be 'innocent'?

    Don't even hope that people of Europe have forgotten or forgiven all the atrocities which your empire performed.
    That happened in the 1800s right?
    The people alive today had nothing to do with that.

  13. #13
    Over 9000! Kalis's Avatar
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    Cyprus is celebrating too, though I'm not 100% sure why.

    We celebrate Ochi Day in October as well, which just seems to be an excuse for a day off, as it had fuck all to do with us.

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