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  1. #201
    Immortal Dezerte's Avatar
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    I had to cringe a bit when reading "make UK more like Scandinavia" and then reading something so far removed from that in the OP.
    To declare that a personal, inner experience gives certainty about the workings of the universe is to assign far too much value to one’s subjective sense of conviction.
    I’m not that arrogant.

    The brain, marvelous instrument though it is, isn’t infallible. It can misfire, seize or hallucinate, and it can do so in a way that’s utterly indistinguishable from reality to the person experiencing it.

  2. #202
    'Close the borders' - everyone's answer to immigration. Good luck finding people to do the shit jobs that nobody wants: there's never a lack of jobs, just people not willing to do them.

  3. #203
    Stood in the Fire rogoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    Then I would be making it clear that it is not my party, but the ignorance and deliberate attempts of the other parties to sabotage our plans to restore power and credibility to the U.K. I would also make it clear to all how Labour had screwed over the country, revealing all the memos, facts and proof that what happened to the U.K. was a purposeful attempt to retain power by Brown, Blair, Balls and the rest of them.

    I would hold them personally accountable, and have them sentenced for High Treason against the Crown.

    so to translate, you are a tory muppet who thinks the solution to our countries problems are simply to just slam the door in ppls faces? because everything the tories and lib dems have done over the last few years has been a great success hasn't it?, in short, we are in a worse situation now than when new labour where in charge, granted they did things wrong, but if they hadn't they wouldn't be human, also, u appear to be utterly clueless about monetery policy, as alot of the soo called changes u would implement would cause soo much damage to the economy it beggers belief, piece of advice, put the crack pipe down, and go back to thinking u are king of teh world or whatever fantasy ur living currently.

  4. #204
    The Insane Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    Why have any immigration regulation with this thinking? If a country undergoes enough hardship and turmoil, it's fine to open your floodgates to its citizenry despite having more than enough hardship/turmoil of your own to deal with? Sorry, but that's not how the real world works, for one who cites it in their defence.
    Ummm, he was saying where would you deport British citizens to? The ones caught harboring illegal immigrants that he said he wanted deported? Their home is the UK, and there aren't likely to be other countries who want to take them in, so where the hell do you deport them to?
    Well 1, 2, 3, take my hand and come with me
    Because you look so fine
    And I really wanna make you mine

  5. #205
    Mechagnome Typhoon-AN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    so to translate, you are a tory muppet who thinks the solution to our countries problems are simply to just slam the door in ppls faces? because everything the tories and lib dems have done over the last few years has been a great success hasn't it?, in short, we are in a worse situation now than when new labour where in charge, granted they did things wrong, but if they hadn't they wouldn't be human, also, u appear to be utterly clueless about monetery policy, as alot of the soo called changes u would implement would cause soo much damage to the economy it beggers belief, piece of advice, put the crack pipe down, and go back to thinking u are king of teh world or whatever fantasy ur living currently.
    Whilst I do not agree with the OP's "policies" in the slightest, I take great offense to you guys calling him a Tory! Obviously I am looking at them through rose tinted glasses (born and raised in farm country, North Leicestershire - prime Tory country!) but to claim the coalition is responsible for all of this countries problems is a stretch at best.

    The part I have bolded is the thing I hardest to understand. It makes you come off as one of the deluded Labour supporters who voted them in to power for two consecutive terms and allowed them to build up a huge false economy built on credit that people could never afford to pay back. Just an FYI - Here is small list for some of the "mistakes" they made:

    1. In his 1997 budget, Brown abolished dividend tax credits on pension funds. Companies saw the writing on the wall and immediately ended their final salary pension schemes to new employees shortly after the 'Brown raid'. They also started to cut down on the number of people with long final salary pension service and worked towards ending a scheme which would no longer be viable.

    The CBI opposed Browns Tax credit cuts. Even the treasury and No.10 opposed them. (But Brown made the cuts anyway.)

    2. By abolishing the pensions tax credit, the yield for institutional funds across the entire market fell by 20 per cent. Few people outside the City understood the change and hardly any MPs protested. But Whitehall papers produced under the Freedom of Information act showed that Mr Brown was warned by his officials and by the Treasury that there would be dire consequences.
    They warned it would wipe £50bn off the value of funds, and that shares could drop by up to 20 per cent and public sector pensions would need topping up. (Brown chose to ignore this warning.)

    The value of pension funds have since lost around £5bn per year since the 1997 tax relief cuts. Pension funds holding the cash that almost everyone in the country had planned to use for our retirement have lost around £100 billion over the last 12 years.

    3. The advice Brown was given by this Treasury Paper, in 1997 was as follows:

    'The changes in incentives are likely to lead to substantial changes in portfolios. Pension funds will find equity relatively less attractive, and will prefer other assets – particularly interest bearing securities and foreign equity – and may also be prompted to consider more direct property investment.'

    Those funds were then channelled into fuelling an unsustainable property bubble, BTL portfolios, which developed because of Labours complete lack of regulation of the Banks. This was followed by ever increasing toxic mortgage debt, and this was followed by the bank bailouts.

    This is just one example of Gordon Browns incompetent decision making which helped to create the cornerstone of the debt bubble.

    4. In the ten years previous to Browns Raid on pensions, From 1987 to 1997 the Average House Price rose from £40k to £55k.
    A 33.3% rise over ten years.

    From 1997( post tax dividend cuts) to 2007, the Average House Price rose from £55k to £190k (Nationwide Building Society figures)

    A staggering 245% increase over the same period. (Ten years.)


    All major parties in this country have a LOT to answer for, but to believe that the mistakes Labour made only "made them human" or that one is better than the other is borderline crazy talk.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Britain crushed the Egyptians as well. This is what they used to do, kill the people who want independence. Haven't any of you seen Brave heart? Falklands, Northern Ireland and Scotland should be able to break free like India did.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    when new labour where in charge, granted they did things wrong, but if they hadn't they wouldn't be human
    There is a colossal difference between 'human error' and what Labour did to the UK's economy from 1997-2008.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Kakazam View Post
    'Close the borders' - everyone's answer to immigration. Good luck finding people to do the shit jobs that nobody wants: there's never a lack of jobs, just people not willing to do them.
    We have 3 million unemployed in the UK. I guess all those people just like sitting on there arse in poverty and not do a shit job......

  8. #208
    The Lightbringer Simulacrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakazam View Post
    'Close the borders' - everyone's answer to immigration. Good luck finding people to do the shit jobs that nobody wants: there's never a lack of jobs, just people not willing to do them.
    You'd think the market'd find some solution to that.

    Of course, it doesn't have to when you have an inexhaustible pool of workers with low standards rushing in to accept any conditions and pay that they are offered. Better to make the companies pool all its profits to the top instead of improving conditions for its workers.
    Dr Johnson, they said: “we are delighted to find that you’ve not included any indecent or obscene words in your dictionary.”
    “Ladies, said dr Johnson, “I can congratulate you on being able to look them up.”

  9. #209
    Stood in the Fire rogoth's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Typhoon-AN;20632869]Whilst I do not agree with the OP's "policies" in the slightest, I take great offense to you guys calling him a Tory! Obviously I am looking at them through rose tinted glasses (born and raised in farm country, North Leicestershire - prime Tory country!) but to claim the coalition is responsible for all of this countries problems is a stretch at best.

    The part I have bolded is the thing I hardest to understand. It makes you come off as one of the deluded Labour supporters who voted them in to power for two consecutive terms and allowed them to build up a huge false economy built on credit that people could never afford to pay back.QUOTE]


    here's an FYI, i am only old enough to have voted in the last general election which saw the wannabe's jump into be with the silver spoons, just missed the one previous, so no, i did not vote labour into government, i have no party alliegences, i couldn't give a rats ass who or what they are as long as they do the decent thing and fix problems without making bigger ones.

    i am in a fortunate postition to have studied in depth economics and the impact of government and politics etc, i find it a bit short sighted that you blame the current issues on the last governments office, when in fact, a vast number of the problems we are seeing today, are as a direct result of the clusterfuck left by the one and only maggie thatcher, "retrain retrain reetrain" was that not her motto, and guess what, privatisation doesn't work either, and aren't these things the basis of her party manifesto?, thanks to her we lost a vast portion of our manufacturing base, and as a result there is next to nobody looking at skilled labour jobs anymore as most are looking at office jobs etc, so even if there are jobs in that sector, there are very few ppl to fill them, such is the nature of our output now, it is all tertiary services, here is an example, near where i live there is an old thatchers business, he charges soo much money for the service, because he is the only person in a 200 mile radius that can do the job, and thanks to the thatcher motto, we as a nation are seeing a decline, and ultimately loss of some skills that we will never see possibly again at least for generations to come.

    and my point saying "granted they did things wrong, but if they hadn't they wouldn't be human", what i meant by that was, if they hadn't made any mistakes, or very minimal ones at best, then we would be questioning how they managed it, "to make mistakes is what makes us human", i did not mean the problems and issues they caused were as a result of human error, not by a long shot.

    and finally, i have yet to meet a tory member either a party member or an average person in the street who doesn't have the same ideological fantasy that the OP has, in my honest opinion, the tory party, and by default the lib dems, are totally out of touch with the general populous, i mean the amount of laughs i got out of the "pasty tax" u can't count, it is that kind of thinking that lead me to doubt everything mr osbourne does or will do, as he seems to be clutching at straws and pulling policies out of his behind to try and sort things out, the fact he is having to borrow even more money than anybody had predicted, is testament to this, it is easy to say "oh hey, u are doing a bad job i can do it better blah blah blah", then when in the position, totally screwing it up because it isn't as easy as u thought, yeah, go figure, party politics and point scoring at its' best.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-26 at 02:13 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    Ummm, he was saying where would you deport British citizens to? The ones caught harboring illegal immigrants that he said he wanted deported? Their home is the UK, and there aren't likely to be other countries who want to take them in, so where the hell do you deport them to?
    australia, did it before, can do it again

  10. #210
    Mechagnome Typhoon-AN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    snip
    I did state in my original reply to you, that I am infact a Tory voter. For you to then state that you are yet to meet a Tory that does not share the OP's views makes me a little confused:

    Quote Originally Posted by Typhoon-AN View Post
    Whilst I do not agree with the OP's "policies" in the slightest, I take great offense to you guys calling him a Tory! Obviously I am looking at them through rose tinted glasses (born and raised in farm country, North Leicestershire - prime Tory country!) but to claim the coalition is responsible for all of this countries problems is a stretch at best.
    I also went on to blame all of the major parties for the current shambles that is the UK economy. Your original post sounded a lot like you were trying to deflect all of the shit that Labour caused under Tony Blair / Gordon Brown, and pin it on the current coalition. I provided a little snippet of what Labour did wrong, and your rebutal to that was to blame Margaret Thatcher???

    Quote Originally Posted by Typhoon-AN View Post
    All major parties in this country have a LOT to answer for, but to believe that the mistakes Labour made only "made them human" or that one is better than the other is borderline crazy talk.
    To state you study economics and politics yet do seem to lean towards Labour (therefore your view will always be skewed to them, as I am to the Tories), and then claim I said that all of our issues were down to Labour seems again (despite my quotes above proving otherwise) a bit of a stretch...
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Britain crushed the Egyptians as well. This is what they used to do, kill the people who want independence. Haven't any of you seen Brave heart? Falklands, Northern Ireland and Scotland should be able to break free like India did.

  11. #211
    I think the OP just went to the BNP website, altered some of their policies to make them sound a bit less racist, and presented them as his own. Hopefully no-one like him will ever be voted into government.

  12. #212
    David 'Cast Iron' Cameron - vacillates aimlessly between one faux-policy and the next, desperately trying to be seen as 'in-touch' with ordinary voters. Fails massively at this. Hampered severely by Lib Dem Coalition. Has momentary flashes of lucidity. Second in command George Osborne strikes me as the type who claims to be 'just one of the guys' because he has a mortgage on his third home.

    Nick Clegg - Cries live on air, policies largely ignored by British public because they're a) irrelevant and b) all ludicrously expensive. Facing the prospect of being replaced by UKIP in the next General Election as the traditional 'third' party. Second in command Vince Cable may expire before then.

    Ed Milliband - Looks like Mr. Bean after a severe car-crash. Appears to be devoid of any credible policies save opposing the Conservatives on every single thing that they mention in Parliament. Serial opportunist, probably bad news for the UK. Second in command Ed Balls is an unholy cross between Gordon Brown and an Orc.

    Come on guys, do yourselves a favor and find a nice rock in the Atlantic to dump them all on!

  13. #213
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cattlehunter View Post
    You'd think the market'd find some solution to that.

    Of course, it doesn't have to when you have an inexhaustible pool of workers with low standards rushing in to accept any conditions and pay that they are offered. Better to make the companies pool all its profits to the top instead of improving conditions for its workers.
    There are some jobs that no amount of compensation or "condition improvement" will make desirable for most.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

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