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  1. #1
    Field Marshal Zenvon's Avatar
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    Question Help our hunter, please..

    Hi there,

    Im raid-leading a 10man guild. We're currently 5/12 normal mode, and raiding 3 times a week.
    Our hunter was with us in the raid last night, and I am quite concerned about her dps - surely being somewhere from 25-50% behind the rest of the dps isnt normal..

    It would be really great, if any of you good hunters out there could take a look at the logs and see if you can spot what's wrong?
    She's been a hunter for the last 2-3 years, and been raiding every single week. Her ilvl is somewhere around 495-500.
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-q5aupikc1fccowrv/

    I've been trying to compare her logs with other hunters, but it's pretty hard for me to get any conclussions, except she's doing less damage.. I just dont know enough about hunters myself
    Zenvon @ EU-Moonglade
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  2. #2
    I'm no expert but from the Megaera log i checked, he's using ToTH, Barrage and Lynx Rush. All 3 of those talents are the best choice for pure dps on that fight, his kill shot usage is very low and only 50 explosive shots in nearly 9minutes is very confusing. I imagine his explosive shot usage is so low because of the massive amount of Arcane Shots.

    Like i said im no expert but his explosive shot seems the biggest problem by far.

  3. #3
    Like most hunters who have issues with their dps, they simply arent using their most damaging skills enough.

    Take your hunter on the Jin'Rohk kill, she did 14 Chimera shots in 3 min 49 sec, thats 16 seconds on a skill that has 9 sec cd.
    All she has to do is to make sure she's using her best abilities whenever they are off cd.


    Same thing on the other logs, it looks like she likes Arcane shot way too much.
    Last edited by Hoofey; 2013-03-22 at 11:11 AM.

  4. #4
    Have her try Murder in tier 4 and GT in tier 6. Those are typically regarded as the best DPS options.

    ToT is a tricky option. If you stick to TOP priority and don't worry about clearing your ToT proc then it works quite nicely. But lets say there's a Lock n Load and ToT proc that happen simultaneously...the explosive shots need to be cleared first to ensure they get off even before thinking about arcane shot.

    It also looks like there were some fights where she was marks - at least for me, that rotation is more difficult.

  5. #5
    Stood in the Fire Devboy's Avatar
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    Few things I've noticed.

    Firstly, she has a MM Spec, which I believe she uses for pure single target only fights (Jin Rohk only in your logs). I know MM still doesn't sim very high vs the other specs, so maybe BM would be better for single target fights.

    I've also noticed, her explosive shot count is very low (looking at the Magaera fight), as well as the uptime of Blackarrow. It seems that arcane shot is being prioritized more, which it shouldnt be. The uptime of serpent sting seems a little low as well, as this should have near 100% uptime.

    Thrill of the hunt being used as one of the talents isn't the best choice, Fevor has a higher DPS yield, as ToTH can screw up your focus capping, as well as having MoC instead of Lynx rush. Also, Barrage seems questionable, I believe that Glaive toss is a higher DPS yield.

    I may be incorrect on a few points, so if anyone has the correct info, feel free to shoot me down :P

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by devboy View Post
    I may be incorrect on a few points, so if anyone has the correct info, feel free to shoot me down :P
    You got it right

    However, I'd say its easier to play using ToTH (I'm using Fervor), but she needs to learn that the procc has no priority.
    Im pretty sure she feels that she has to use those arcane shots asap, and then use Explosive shot / Chimera which results in SrS dropping off and higher priority shots stays off cooldown way too long.

  7. #7
    Stood in the Fire Devboy's Avatar
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    Not sure if this is another contributing factor, but I've had a look at some of her gemming, and it seems she is favouring socket bonus, over pure agility... Unless I'm mistaken, you should only get the socket bonus if it will still yield 160 agility + the extra bonus, for example, http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/item/89920 will allow you get get both ther 120 hit, as well as the 160 agility if you just went for a pure red. Where as the following item, gemming pure red is a better choice http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/item/94775

  8. #8
    1. Too many AS. It.s single target fight on normal so explosive shots should be on top.
    2. Fervor is way to go here.
    3. Glaive Toss instead Barrage.
    4. Serpent Sting (60.2 % Uptime) not acceptable, 95% is way to go.
    5. Lynx Rush is okey but MoC fit better with Fervor.

    He need to change this points and he should be fine.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Newron View Post
    1. Too many AS. It.s single target fight on normal so explosive shots should be on top.
    2. Fervor is way to go here.
    3. Glaive Toss instead Barrage.
    4. Serpent Sting (60.2 % Uptime) not acceptable, 95% is way to go.
    5. Lynx Rush is okey but MoC fit better with Fervor.

    He need to change this points and he should be fine.
    Not on Megaera however

  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire Devboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamhead223 View Post
    Not on Megaera however
    Why... Megaera's head is only inactive for a short period of time... (5 seconds at the most before the new one spawns) SS should be first priority when a new head appears as far as I'm aware?

  11. #11
    It's just the way logs work on that fight.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Hamhead223 View Post
    Not on Megaera however
    Yes, but still 60% not enough. I checked my own log from Mageara hc 80% uptime.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by devboy View Post
    . Where as the following item, gemming pure red is a better choice http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/item/94775
    80 Agi / 160 crit gem with 60 agi socketbonus sims higher than a 160 agi gem.

    At least on femaledwarf


    Hell, even my belt http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/item/96102 sims higher with a Deadly orange gem, and the bonus is 120 haste -.-
    Last edited by Hoofey; 2013-03-22 at 01:04 PM.

  14. #14
    Stood in the Fire Devboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoofey View Post
    80 Agi / 160 crit gem with 60 agi socketbonus sims higher than a 160 agi gem.

    At least on femaledwarf


    Hell, even my belt http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/item/96102 sims higher with a Deadly orange gem, and the bonus is 120 haste -.-
    hmm.. Fair enough, I thought I read it was the other way around somewhere...

  15. #15
    I usually go for the agility socket bonuses since you gain 160 rating and only lose 20 agility, but if it had been like a 60 haste socketbonus, I'd go for agility ofc.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Conando View Post
    It's just the way logs work on that fight.
    Yup my log shows me at 20% uptime, and I know for a fact I was at 100% uptime on heads.

  17. #17
    Stood in the Fire Devboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertarian View Post
    Yup my log shows me at 20% uptime, and I know for a fact I was at 100% uptime on heads.
    Could you link your log, I'm trying to find why WoL logs it like this. I think I've found the right way to find the true uptime of SS, but I need a few more logs to analyze. If any others wouldn't mind posting there's I'd appreciate it.

  18. #18
    Instead of telling you what talents etc she should take I'll tell you how to analyze her log:

    First, find a fight that's mostly single target and mostly gimmic free. Jin'rokh is fine.

    Second, figure out what the hunter's signature shot is (Explosive shot for SV, Chimera for MM, Kill Command for BM).

    Third, figure out the cooldown for that shot. Divide that cooldown into the fight length in seconds. ES is the signature shot? It has a six second CD. 5 minute (300 second) fight? OK, 300/6 = 50ES. Allow for some slop (moving to stack for Storm, kite orbs) and assume the hunter is alive the entire fight you should see about 45 ES in the logs. Much less? Problem!

    Fourth USE SEARCH. This is the third "Help my hunter" thread in the last three days. The advice isn't going to vary much unless a hunter is really bad at gear or spec. Once someone has geared correctly and specced well those factors are minor. Sure, regemming or tuning the reforges might help a bit, but they're not going to increase DPS by 20% if they're just tweaks. If someone is drastically lower than where they should be it's almost always because they're not using their abilities as well as they should be.

    PS: Her gear and stats are fine. I'm sure I could nitpick but... eh.

    PPS: She should sim her toon on femaledwarf.com to get a feel for what her DPS can be. If she's doing close to her simmed DPS on a single target fight that's not bad. But remember, on a fight like Jinrokh she gets the puddle boost so her dps should be HIGHER than her simmed DPS.

    PPPS: Don't do the "she's x% lower than others" since a) they might be playing OP classes or specs, b) might have better gear, c) it promotes poor raid morale. NOTE: virtually everyone above her is 10-15 ilevels higher in gear. That's not an excuse for her not to do as well as she can, but let's not pretend that a 516 lock and a 500 hunter are going to be evenly matched either.

    Instead, ask "Is she doing as well as she can for her class and gear level? Is she playing a gimped spec? Playing a spec that's fine but has chosen suboptimal talents? Or is the core issue that she's not playing that well?" My point isn't to excuse poor play but to say that she should be judged on how well she's doing compared to what her class can do. For example, in 5.1 mages were just silly OP. Even well played hunters were behind them at similar skill and gear levels.

    In this case it feels like she's just not hitting key abilities often enough so the trick is to figure out why not. If it's lack of awareness of the ability being off CD look at Weak Auras or similar to provide an alert. If it's too many keys and she's overwhelmed, macro some things. For example, I have my trinkets and engineering tinkers macroed to Explosive Shot. No, this isn't optimal but it prevents me from having to manage a ton of keybinds or forgetting to activate them at all.

    BTW, does WOL just fail at logging the Fluidity buff on Jinrokh? One thing that's critical on this fight is to get in the puddle and gain Fluidity for the DPS boost but the Buffs Gained section never shows it so you can't tell whether someone is doing well or failing at that.
    Last edited by clevin; 2013-03-22 at 07:04 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by rose1686 View Post
    Have her try Murder in tier 4 and GT in tier 6. Those are typically regarded as the best DPS options. .
    Seems like most hunters in the top guilds have dropped glaive toss for barrage as survival these days even for single target.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    BTW, does WOL just fail at logging the Fluidity buff on Jinrokh? One thing that's critical on this fight is to get in the puddle and gain Fluidity for the DPS boost but the Buffs Gained section never shows it so you can't tell whether someone is doing well or failing at that.
    IIRC, Fluidity logs as a debuff, so it wouldn't be in the buffs gained.
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