The Constitution - the ruin of America.

[Deleted]

I've been meaning to ask any Americans out there... and everyone else, too, really.

How do you feel about the American constitution, and how relevant is it today compared to how relevant it ought to be be?

In my view, there was a time and place for the Constitution. It was a modern document after the liberation by America from Europe and its Catholic church and royal houses. It did establish rights and rules that were valuable and relevant at the time.

But today, really?
The only thing I ever see the Constitution do is split your nation apart and protect outdated values and rights.

The problem is the fact that while the separation from Europe did allow you to prosper as free men and women, it also isolated you. Europe's hierarchy-based social systems evolved and its own rulers and laws were thrown out. It seems to me, as an observer from abroad, that the adamancy with which you protect and cling on to the Constitution in your effort to do good and protect liberty, effectively shoots you in the foot as well. I daresay it might even keep you out-of-touch with the world and its current views on justice and liberty.

I should perhaps say, also, that I love the United States and am a great admirer of your nation in many, many other regards. So no offence.

Thoughts?

[Deleted]

I am not American but since you posted this on an international forum I think I am allowed an opinion.

The constitution was a very good idea that helped stabilize a very young and volatile country. However, time change, yet you still get people clinging to the constitution like it is a religious text sent straight from God. You need to change it, adapt and move with the time, even if that involves violating something your ancestors held dear.

[Roose]

I think that ALL laws should be revisited every 10-20 years and checked for validity. Still important, keep it. Antiquated concept, ditch it.

[Reeve]

Most of the constitution is quite good even today. There are a few items I might change, but I think it has overall been a force for good in the US.

[Jaxi]

I am not American but since you posted this on an international forum I think I am allowed an opinion.

The constitution was a very good idea that helped stabilize a very young and volatile country. However, time change, yet you still get people clinging to the constitution like it is a religious text sent straight from God. You need to change it, adapt and move with the time, even if that involves violating something your ancestors held dear.

Is there a specific part you have in mind?

[Deleted]

Most of the constitution is quite good even today. There are a few items I might change, but I think it has overall been a force for good in the US.

I'd like to emphasise the word 'has', there. While I hear what you say, do you think the fact that it has been good is enough cause to keep it today?
Protect it as a historical document, and found the new ones on it - sure. But live by it, as many Americans seem to do?

I am not American but since you posted this on an international forum I think I am allowed an opinion.

Sorry, I have adjusted this in the OP. I want your opinion as well, thank you.

[Deleted]

Is there a specific part you have in mind?

Well that fact that the USA seems to be behind Europe on many major issues by decades, it has been that way since the USA was formed. The USA being one of the last "civilized" countries to abolish slavery is one example, DADT only being repealed recently is a more modern one. People are actually being harmed because others don't want to rock the boat.

[smokeydown]

The constitution can changed. I think it's fine the way it is, but if something does become out dated and you have the overwhelming support of the people it will be changed. The problem with libs is they QQ so much they think they have more support than they actually do.

[anveena]

The document that can be amended is out of date.

[Jaxi]

Well that fact that the USA seems to be behind Europe on many major issues by decades, it has been that way since the USA was formed. The USA being one of the last "civilized" countries to abolish slavery is one example, DADT only being repealed recently is a more modern one. People are actually being harmed because others don't want to rock the boat.

That's not really an example of how the constitution itself needs to be changed. What in particular do you think is out of date?

[Rukentuts]

The fact that the USA is lagging behind the rest of Western society is due to cultural factors (most notably education), not a piece of paper.

[s_bushido]

What? Aside from the gun debate, what part of the constitution could come remotely close to "ruining" America?

[The US Constitution]

OP, your post was so absolutely baffling to me that I felt the need to register a new account and make this post. Your attitude implies that you're a European, so I'll just use a brief example to answer:

The EU is right now in the process of stealing billions of dollars from citizens who lawfully held that money in the Bank of Cyprus. There is no recourse for these people.

The US constitution, under the 5th Amendment, guarantees that the federal government of the United States can't take a citizen's property without due process of law and/or just compensation.

I think the citizens of Cyprus would prefer the US Constitution at the present time.

The US Constitution was, is, and will for the foreseeable future be the premier governing document that guarantees the liberty of a nation's citizens. Other countries, especially in these turbulent times, can only look on with envy.

[Pachycrocuta]

I don't think the Constitution is what is holding America back. It is the people you guys (British) drove from your country that came over here. And "those people" were the Puritans. The puritans and the retaining of their "purityrannical" views on the world is what makes the USA look backwards to Europe.

[rhandric]

Your premise is flawed. The Constitution is a living document, so by definition can't be out of date. And the Constitution itself is fine; any problems you may consider there being in the US government lay in old laws, not the Constitution itself. The Constitution has a specific purpose - define the powers, and checks and balances, of each branch of the government, as well as delineating what is a Federal power. The biggest problem, in fact, would be the presumption of powers by the Federal government that are not granted by the Constitution, but that's a completely different subject.

[Deleted]

OP, your post was so absolutely baffling to me that I felt the need to register a new account and make this post. Your attitude implies that you're a European, so I'll just use a brief example to answer:

The EU is right now in the process of stealing billions of dollars from citizens who lawfully held that money in the Bank of Cyprus. There is no recourse for these people.

The US constitution, under the 5th Amendment, guarantees that the federal government of the United States can't take a citizen's property without due process of law and/or just compensation.

I think the citizens of Cyprus would prefer the US Constitution at the present time.

The US Constitution was, is, and will for the foreseeable future be the premier governing document that guarantees the liberty of a nation's citizens. Other countries, especially in these turbulent times, can only look on with envy.

I appreciate your candour, sir / madam. Thank you.

For the record, I'm Swedish. I don't want to sound like I'm tooting my own horn, but because you brought my origins up...

Sweden is frequently voted, among nations like Norway, Denmark, Finland, Switzerland, and Canada, to be one of the most progressive (if not the most progressive) nations in the world. Unequalled equality, justice, safety, economic systems, growth, etc.

Within the western world, I suppose you could say we are the opposite of America. We are one of the most non-religious nations in the world, we constantly change our laws and we do keep more than two political parties because we value opinions and renewal.

So how do you explain that? I mean it's plain obvious for everyone to see that, whilst America is a great and beautiful nation in my view, you are losing your status as a great power, your economy is failing, and you do have the tragedies like the frequent school shootings, etc.

---------- Post added 2013-03-25 at 03:07 PM ----------

I haven't noticed this trend you're describing.[COLOR="red"]

Oh, you can't tell the difference between 17th century Christian Europe and the Europe of today?

[Orlong]

But today, really?
The only thing I ever see the Constitution do is split your nation apart and protect outdated values and rights.

Who are you to say the values and rights are outdated. That is simply your opinion, NOT a fact. Most of us like the values and rights that the constitution provides. Not every thing that is old is outdated, unuseful, obsolete, broken, or dead.

[Zoranon]

Not at all, the constitution can be amended when needed.

The constitution is the only reason why US is the only country with true freedom of expression among the developed nations.

[Zoranon]

Who are you to say the values and rights are outdated. That is simply your opinion, NOT a fact. Most of us like the values and rights that the constitution provides. Not every thing that is old is outdated, unuseful, obsolete, broken, or dead.

And also this, you fail to see that there is no set of universal values, nor are there any rights (I presume you mean gun rights) that are universally held as obsolete.

[Deleted]

English, voted "No". The First Amendment is timeless, simple and perfectly clear. It's a piece of legislation I think every country should adopt or at least take influence from. I think, however, that there are a few parts of the Constitution that, in the 21st Century, are definitely showing their age and, as such, people should be prepared to factor in the context of the period in which the Constitution was written (technology of the time, socio-political conditions and the nature of capital in that period), and perhaps alter their interpretation of its meaning, if not amend it to make it more modern.

For example, despite the Declaration of Independence's stating that citizens have certain unalienable rights, including Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness, the Constitution makes no mention of a governmental obligation for the State to provide healthcare for citizens who cannot afford it. I think it should be common sense to note that, at the time that the Constitution was written, healthcare was so haphazard and unrefined, that the local barber often acted as the town surgeon too... It was simply not worth considering healthcare at the time of the US' founding, because it wasn't likely to do much in the way of providing citizens' with life or preventing their deaths.
Now, in the 21st Century, when we are able to destroy cancerous tumours with radiation, perform C-sections as a relatively low risk operation, replace defective human hearts with the hearts of other animals, I think it's worth considering that maybe the Founding Fathers might have placed more import on ensuring the American people had access to healthcare to ensure their "inalienable" right to life.