1. #1

    Council Issues 10man Normal - Logs Included

    I've been looking at different logs and averages on WOL, it may be that we just don't have the DPS in general? Can anyone speak on this if it's true or not?
    Last edited by jpirog; 2013-03-25 at 05:49 PM.

  2. #2
    You can't post links because your account is too new. post it like this worldoflogs com/[your address here]

  3. #3
    I actually edited it and everything was working fine but then it erased my original post for some reason..so I'll do the short version:

    WOL:
    worldoflogs com/reports/rt-4d817ruhlqwmtfz3/sum/damageDone/?s=64&e=428

    Strategy:
    We start hard on Sul, always leaving 1 melee on him all fight. I can't recall if we tanked swap on this attempt or just let the tank sit frozen. We have done it both ways and in terms of tank dmg its not an issue either way. DPS switches to the empowered target. Might be forgetting something here and there but that is the basic strategy I think. We split the bosses up. 2 on the left and the priest far right, with the rolling guy going crazy as usual.

    We have also tried the stacking method where you stack the 3 of the 4 (4th guy rolls around) and ignore the healing add. Didnt work out so well.

  4. #4
    It seems that you guys are taking a lot more damage than you should. I also notice that you had a sandstorm hit. Ideally you want to kill Sul before he casts that. In fact looking at your logs it took you nearly 5 minutes to kill him. I can imagine that you are taking a boatload of damage when he casts sandstorm and as a result you end up loosing people from other boss incidental damage like Wrath of Loa which killed your warrior, DK, and Druid. I also notice that you are 3 healing the fight when it's a 2 heal fight.

    Here is what you should try to do. Drop to 2 healers and pop lust/hero at the start and really lay into Sul, leave a dps on him and burn him down as much as you can. He needs to die within 3 minutes before he gets empowered. If you have to switch off the empowered boss and finish him off before he gets empowered do it. He has to die. With Sul no longer there to cast sandstorm you will no loger loose people to random stuff like Wrath of Loa from the priest.

    Once Sul is dead the only thing that can really kill people is Biting Cold. The entire fight becomes a lot easier once he is dead.

    --

    On further inspection of all of your attempts the problem seems to be that you are trying to survive Sandstorm by popping Lust and praying that you don't loose anyone. Every attempt I see you lasting 3-4 minutes then you go splat on the Sandstorm. That's the problem, Kill Sul before he's empowered and you won't have to deal with it.
    Last edited by lizon; 2013-03-25 at 08:18 PM.

  5. #5
    The biggest problem I see is that you aren't getting Sul down quickly enough. I suspect part of this is because you seem to have one of your warriors helping on empowers which is costing him a lot of dps in travel time. As a point of interest, I'm comparing to my guild's kill last week and your total dps is only 30k lower on your longest attempt, which is certainly not enough to prevent you from getting a kill.

    A couple things you could do.

    1 - Keep both warriors on Sul for as long as possible at the start of the fight. Only pull them off to break empowers if it is obvious that the ranged won't be able to do it in time.
    2 - Heroism should be popped at the beginning of the fight when everyone is on Sul and all cd's and trinkets are available.
    3 - Keep all dps on Sul as long as possible at the beginning of the fight, probably until malak has hit 40-50 energy, before swapping to him. You should still have time to break it and Sul will now be in a better place for the warriors to burn him down while ranged handle the empower on kazra'jin.

  6. #6
    High Overlord Durbi's Avatar
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    Hey this is what we do in our guild, killed it like this before nerf just fine

    we start by having everyone on Sul until his energy reaches around 60, then 4/5 dps switches, we only leave DK on Sul because he has 2 interrupts (not interrupting sand bolt is annoying for healers so we try to do it as much as we can)

    after we free that first empowerement we keep DK on Sul full time, 3 of our ranged dps is from now on full time on empowered add while doting Sul, and our rogue is doing both, staying on Sul until empowered add energy reaches 55-65, then he helps on it, rinse and repeat untill Sul dies, we used to get 1 Sandstorm pre nerf, now it's mostly none unless we slack a bit

    when Sul dies we have DK go on High priest full time to interrupt, while other 4 dps-ers do empowerements

    hope it helps, gl

  7. #7
    We've actually tried a lot of different strategies, both of what you guys said was the first one we tried. Lusting at the beginning, drilling Sul until we need to switch off to the empowered, etc...

    We've even gotten to the point where Sul went down, but we still will die later on AND that's with three healers. We have gotten some suggestion of obviously needing to interrupt Sul more and that's definitely something that will help. But other than that, what else is it? I know our raid comp isn't that favorable either.. seeing as we only have two ranged DPS (the lock is actually not a normal raider, he's on his monk). So we're super melee heavy..

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by jpirog View Post
    We've actually tried a lot of different strategies, both of what you guys said was the first one we tried. Lusting at the beginning, drilling Sul until we need to switch off to the empowered, etc...

    We've even gotten to the point where Sul went down, but we still will die later on AND that's with three healers. We have gotten some suggestion of obviously needing to interrupt Sul more and that's definitely something that will help. But other than that, what else is it? I know our raid comp isn't that favorable either.. seeing as we only have two ranged DPS (the lock is actually not a normal raider, he's on his monk). So we're super melee heavy..
    If you are killing Sul before he does a sandstorm then there really is no reason to die afterwords unless people are taking more damage than they should. Either tanks are dieing when they get stunned or people are standing in stuff. As a healer one thing I did was track the debuff that the tanks get when tanking the Frost guy so I can know beforehand when they will get stunned and have something for them when it happens.

  9. #9
    Do you guys not have any issues with healing through the reflect damage? I've noticed that when he's empowered, I have to let up a lot because I'm doing a lot of damage to myself trying to get him down. He usually always gets to 100% empowered and then that'll wipe us.

  10. #10
    High Overlord Durbi's Avatar
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    We have shadow priest and elemental shaman cds for that, Ancestral Guidance and Vampiric Embrace, usually save them for those moments where we're dealing with empowered charge guy, and obviously people should use their personal CDs, like Icebound fortitude as DK, divine protections as paladins, etc

  11. #11
    I assume everyone has been popping their CDs, kind of a given but I haven't asked, but personally I have been and still been wrecking myself so I have to let up.

    In this last raid on Sunday, we've had our two Shammy's (two separate groups) dropping their totems.. I forget what it's called but apparently it's supposed to nullify or help decrease the reflect damage.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by jpirog View Post
    Do you guys not have any issues with healing through the reflect damage? I've noticed that when he's empowered, I have to let up a lot because I'm doing a lot of damage to myself trying to get him down. He usually always gets to 100% empowered and then that'll wipe us.
    You can't let up. You need raid CDs and personal CDs so you can keep DPSing hard. Healers have to push it too.

  13. #13
    Field Marshal Blabarsjuice's Avatar
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    This is how we killed the boss:
    1 Tank, 3 Healers & 6 DPS. Myself playing as Disc Priest, so doing roughly 60k DPS Throughout the fight.

    If you have a Guardian Druid he can solo tank this boss (Using Dodge Increase when Frigid Assault is active). I'm sure any tank can still Solo Tank this without taking lots of DMG.

    What we did was, We stacked up all 3 bosses (except Kazzra'jin cuz he jumps to much). Then just Nuked Sul down whilst Multi Dotting the possessed Boss, We had a Retri Pally designated to Sul to interrupt and our Elemental Shaman on High Priestess, also interrupting. Myself, I decided to DPS the Possessed, in this case Malakk (I am Disc Priest).

    We completely ignored the Blessed Loa Spirit and just let it soak it. Our DPS was far superior than the heal itself. With this strategy it's all about killing Sul before he gets possessed, with our DPS we had no problems whatsoever to do that.

    Just make sure that your raid knows what to do on each ability, i'll do a quick breakdown on the most important stuff;

    - Frostbite, have 2-3 People stacking on this player to reduce the damage taken.
    - Biting Cold, when you get this, run away from the raid (but not too far, you wanna still DPS and healers want to reach you.)
    - Kazzra'Jins jump, It doesn't do that much Damage on Normal, but it's very annoying and unnescessary DMG taken.
    - Shadowed Loa Spirit, When Priestess is possessed her Blessed Spirit will turn deadly, You need to kill these asap. So having someone in Melee to stun them instantly is very good, If they get stunned where 3 mobs are stacked they will take alot of Cleave DMG and should be dead before getting out of the "Stacking Point".

    This is how we killed, Any raid composition works really, 2 Tanks & 3 Healers also work, its just alot more work if Sul is not dead.

    Good Luck!
    <Sick Sense>

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by jpirog View Post
    I've been looking at different logs and averages on WOL, it may be that we just don't have the DPS in general? Can anyone speak on this if it's true or not?
    You need to Bloodlust at the beginning, and keep everybody on Sul until 5 seconds after the first Loa Spirit spawns. Then everybody except 1 melee switches to Malakk. You only need 2 dps on the loa spirit.

    The dps requirement is roughly getting Sul < 60% before having to switch to Malakk.

  15. #15
    So, based on the logs, your dps is really low. We had similar issues at first and what we did to compensate is a couple things...

    First, we went 2 heal, 6 dps. This makes it so that you can leave 2 melee on sul ft aside from Kaz (you need then to switch to help with stagger damage to get out of overload which is the largest damage intake).

    Second, we stacked all the bosses together (Sul/Malik/Priestess) and made sure everyone was cleaving and even when burning sul, got great cleave on the others, even kaz when he was around.

    Third, because we were stacking, we ignored blessed beast, but still kited/burned shadowed because keeping the dps on the burn target (sul then malik) made it negligible.

    We lust at the start and burn sul till malik is at about 50/60% and then switch, with the 2 melee staying on sul. Then its just a matter of ranged kiting the shadowed while burning and making sure your 2 melee switch only for kaz. Once sul is dead, they do the same with malik. We nulified frostbite by simply having that target go stand on melee/tanks since there can't be sandtraps spawned on that location (if you didn't know). Some guides tell you to have your tank eat the stun, but we found switching at 10 stacks was very easy while not ranged tanking and cleaving. This essentially makes healers only have spikes in damage come from biting cold and overload. Assign a healing to tanks, make sure biting cold victims help you out with defensive cd's/cookies, and use raid/healing cd's for kaz overload and its just execution at that point.

    We wiped 25x over a couple nights, switched to this strat and 3 shot it (1 was a dc of a heal, so tecnically 2 shot). Good luck.

  16. #16
    Your dps looks low, as our was before we switched to this strat. We had wiped 25x or so, but then 3 shot them after switching to this strat.

    Comp - 2 Tanks, 6 DPS, 2 Healers

    Tanks group up all 3 adds
    Pop Hero and Burn Sul
    Ignore Blessed Loa Beast
    4 DPS will instantly hard switch to empowered add, leaving 2 DPS on Sul
    All DPS and Heals will stack when Kazra'jin empowers so we can utilize AoE healing and 6 DPS on Kaz to get him out of Empowered quickly

    Kill Priority:
    Shadowed Beast > Empower > Sul
    This is obviously different for the 2 DPS staying on Sul

    Frosttbite to melee/tanks, keeping 2 melee on sul (and then malik) burn nulifies the blessed beast healing. Only healing strain points are kaz overload and biting cold. Assign a healer to each tank, both help with biting cold and raid heals. Make sure you mark a ranged/heal for stack point for kaz overload for aoe healing and make sure you dps/healers are using defensive cd's during bcold and overload.

    If you can't 2 heal this fight, your healers are either undergeared, underperforming, or your raid is simply taking WAY too much unnecessary damage. The tanks take minimal spike damage if swapping, sand traps are avoidable, frostbite is nullified, overload should be managed by staggering dps not straigh bursting while stacking for heals and biting cold can be helped with personal cd's and lock rocks. If you have 3 heals and no one has a dps os that is viable, its time to either get an 11th raider for 2 heal fights when you need it or one of them needs to l2 dps.

    Good Luck

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