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  1. #381
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    I like that Vol'jin didn't automatically sign on with the Zandalar because frankly, where were they BEFORE Zandalar started sinking and everyone else was in danger?

    I DO NOT LIKE however, that Vol'jin hasn't made more of an effort to get them to stop being crazy/evil and join the Horde to help him stop Garrosh.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

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  2. #382
    Elemental Lord Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    I like that Vol'jin didn't automatically sign on with the Zandalar because frankly, where were they BEFORE Zandalar started sinking and everyone else was in danger?

    I DO NOT LIKE however, that Vol'jin hasn't made more of an effort to get them to stop being crazy/evil and join the Horde to help him stop Garrosh.
    Yeah, Zandalari in the Horde. That would've gone well.

  3. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    Gotta say, Vol'Jin standing against the Zandalari is an interesting case. I imagine, being European, this case: a few races from space land on our planet in the middle of Europe and become our friends - but only our, not American, not Asian and so on. And then, after some time, Asia, Africa, Americas unite and ask us to join the alliance, since, after all, we are all human. Problem: betraying your new found friends or keeping in touch with your own race? I don't know, if this weird scenario would actually go real, I would pick the "stay with humans" route.

    That said, I don't really get the whole praising Vol'Jin that happens sometimes. The dude gave a single quest in a bonus campaign of WotLK, was doing pretty much nothing during the whole Vanilla/BC, proudly stood under the gates of Undercity when Thrall and Sylvanas were doing adult stuff inside, killed a single troll after several years of struggle at the before Cata, got expelled from Orgrimmar for threatening the leader soon after... And now he is somehow important? Lor'Themar had more developement before MoP, and thats saying a lot.

    Besides, I really don't like the approach Blizzard is taking with Trolls language. I find it extremly irritating. Like Yoda from the newer versions of Star Wars: in the old trilogy he spoke weirdly a few times, in the newer he is constantly struggling to keep his sentences messed up. Trolls are in civilisation for several years, they might actually learn to speak without saying "brudda", "mon", "mojo" or "voodoo" every two to three words.
    Nevermind that the Darkspear where actually kicked out of Stranglethorn by their troll "brothers". The horde has been more of a family than the other troll races ever where, so at the point it was a no brainer for Vol'jin.

    He didn't need conflict because he didn't had any with Thrall, they where besties. So that Vol'jin became prominent being critical to Garrosh makes perfect sense.

    Also, why would their speech patterns conform to the standard of other races?? That's not civilization, that assimilation.
    Last edited by TheDangerZone; 2013-03-26 at 10:35 PM.

  4. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    I like that Vol'jin didn't automatically sign on with the Zandalar because frankly, where were they BEFORE Zandalar started sinking and everyone else was in danger?

    I DO NOT LIKE however, that Vol'jin hasn't made more of an effort to get them to stop being crazy/evil and join the Horde to help him stop Garrosh.
    He did what he could, and that was to stop them in Zul'gurub and Zul'Aman. He had no way to stop Zul, nor did he know about Pandaria or their plans or the mogu and the Thunder King, besides he only just recovered, he was still recovering by the time Lor'themar assaulted the Isle of Thunder. Oh and joining the Horde? Cut the crap, that was never an option - never.

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  5. #385
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    He did what he could, and that was to stop them in Zul'gurub and Zul'Aman. He had no way to stop Zul, nor did he know about Pandaria or their plans or the mogu and the Thunder King, besides he only just recovered, he was still recovering by the time Lor'themar assaulted the Isle of Thunder. Oh and joining the Horde? Cut the crap, that was never an option - never.


    Why do you say that?

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-26 at 01:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Yeah, Zandalari in the Horde. That would've gone well.
    ??? Why wouldn't it have gone well?
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  6. #386
    Glad to see all of the dwarf conflicts could have easily been resolved that whole time by varian! Who would have thought! Well, that's enough of Dwarves getting any lore that advances the current story! Now we can get back to the good stuff like, brann fumbling around a control panel for a titan computer or sully finding cute and cuddlely little animals to be his companions.

    Seriously though the lore for all alliance races other than humans is a spit in the face of their fans.
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  7. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    Why do you say that?

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-26 at 01:22 PM ----------



    ??? Why wouldn't it have gone well?
    Why? Uhm because Zul had absolutely no intentions of joining the Horde ever. Nor was his plan to join anyone - he wanted OTHERS to join HIM/The Zandalari. He fights for the survival of his race and for TROLL supremacy.

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  8. #388
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Why? Uhm because Zul had absolutely no intentions of joining the Horde ever. Nor was his plan to join anyone - he wanted OTHERS to join HIM/The Zandalari. He fights for the survival of his race and for TROLL supremacy.
    Troll survival. The supremacy angle is just a good way to get the other tribes to fall in line, and this is kind of what diplomacy is FOR, getting people that would otherwise be killing you to see why that might be a bad idea.

    For example, the Zandalar trolls hold Kezan sacred but haven't been there since the Goblins kicked their old troll bosses out, but the Cataclysm cleared out a good chunk of it.

    Imagine a questchain where Gallywix sells the players burned down land and kajamite mine to the Darkspear who then build a new temple on top of it and leverage access to it in diplomatic talks with the Zandalar.

    Also, we have TROLLBANE (The sword), Undead Galen could hand it off to the Darkspear in exchange for a whole mess of supplies or diplomatic favors (help against the worgen, maybe resettle some of trollkind in Gilneas too?)

    Really not that hard to imagine.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

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  9. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Keep reading :P

    I could list a few others, but people would go "NUUUURGH SPOILER ALERT!!!!!". Hint; If you like a character, he/she is as good as dead.
    I've read all the books. Please feel free to PM me with what point-of-view characters die besides Neddie. And i like Tirion, Devros and Arya. So tell me, when do they die ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    he had good reason to. Vol'jin clever, since he knew what was said about the uprising of the zandalari and what it would mean in this fragile time. Vol'jin is a troll who believes in Thralls teaching and what it could mean for his own people, so he doesn't want to see troll nations causing strife across azeroth.
    I don't see how a united troll nation would necessarily mean war. A third big player could bring stability to the world and with all the threats to Azeroth could be a welcomed addition. Especially since the Zalandari are not really big warmongers. They act because they would perish otherwise.
    And i think it's common courtesy if you are invited to such a meeting not to sneak out and agitate against them. That was very low of Vol'jin, especially since he is acting against the last surviving trolls in Azeroth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    I like that Vol'jin didn't automatically sign on with the Zandalar because frankly, where were they BEFORE Zandalar started sinking and everyone else was in danger?
    Actually they were quite friendly during Classic.
    Last edited by Yriel; 2013-03-26 at 08:42 PM.

  10. #390
    Stood in the Fire Milzorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romeothecat View Post
    Glad to see all of the dwarf conflicts could have easily been resolved that whole time by varian! Who would have thought! Well, that's enough of Dwarves getting any lore that advances the current story! Now we can get back to the good stuff like, brann fumbling around a control panel for a titan computer or sully finding cute and cuddlely little animals to be his companions.

    Seriously though the lore for all alliance races other than humans is a spit in the face of their fans.
    I wouldn't give Varian all the credit for that, to be honest. He may have played a part in it, but it was actually Moira and her Dark Irons proving their worth to Muradin and Falstad that ultimately united the clans. Rather, Varian and Moira were helping each other out, and there were no signs of feared "submission to the High King", and this in my opinion created a lot better conception of actual unity. I'd definitely this was a lot better handled than that lackluster Tyrande scenario.

    However, it is a valid concern whether the dwarves will get some further, serious development in the near future.

  11. #391
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    I don't see how a united troll nation would necessarily mean war. A third big player could bring stability to the world and with all the threats to Azeroth could be a welcomed addition. Especially since the Zalandari are not really big warmongers. They act because they would perish otherwise.
    And i think it's common courtesy if you are invited to such a meeting not to sneak out and agitate against them. That was very low of Vol'jin, especially since he is acting against the last surviving trolls in Azeroth.
    Thing is, they were strangely attacking everybody rather than fortifying or uniting, they were attacking bambala and the alliance place which is... -weird- given that you'd think the Zandalar would be smart enough for diplomacy.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

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  12. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    Troll survival. The supremacy angle is just a good way to get the other tribes to fall in line, and this is kind of what diplomacy is FOR, getting people that would otherwise be killing you to see why that might be a bad idea.

    For example, the Zandalar trolls hold Kezan sacred but haven't been there since the Goblins kicked their old troll bosses out, but the Cataclysm cleared out a good chunk of it.

    Imagine a questchain where Gallywix sells the players burned down land and kajamite mine to the Darkspear who then build a new temple on top of it and leverage access to it in diplomatic talks with the Zandalar.

    Also, we have TROLLBANE (The sword), Undead Galen could hand it off to the Darkspear in exchange for a whole mess of supplies or diplomatic favors (help against the worgen, maybe resettle some of trollkind in Gilneas too?)

    Really not that hard to imagine.
    The thing is, Zul and the Zandalari regard anything that isn't troll or mogu a lesser race, they'd never ally with them nor do they believe that they'd ever need the help of either Horde or Alliance (Well they did before Cataclysm when they had an entire different role but eh...).

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  13. #393
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    The thing is, Zul and the Zandalari regard anything that isn't troll or mogu a lesser race, they'd never ally with them nor do they believe that they'd ever need the help of either Horde or Alliance (Well they did before Cataclysm when they had an entire different role but eh...).
    The Zandalar think of the other races as -children- yes but they worked with us when it was in their interest in ZG and Zul'drak, no reason they couldn't do it again.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  14. #394
    I'm gonna wait for Shadows of the Horde novel to come out to see what Vol'jin's ultimate decision that will change the fate of the Horde be.
    Thanks a bunch for the Signature, Cthulhu Ftagn.

  15. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    The Zandalar think of the other races as -children- yes but they worked with us when it was in their interest in ZG and Zul'drak, no reason they couldn't do it again.
    Yes there is a reason. Back then they had a homeland and a functioning empire, they have neither now and are beyond desperate. Not to mention they've come to the conclussion that the other races are idiots who should be enslaved.

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  16. #396
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Yes there is a reason. Back then they had a homeland and a functioning empire, they have neither now and are beyond desperate. Not to mention they've come to the conclussion that the other races are idiots who should be enslaved.
    Source?

    Also, seems like a pretty radical shift for ALL of them to undergo.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  17. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    Source?

    Also, seems like a pretty radical shift for ALL of them to undergo.
    Source? No, I won't give you one. Just pay attention to the actual game.

    And when your entire empire and home gets destroyed in the Cataclysm, you do radical things. The common Zandalari troll thought the world had ended, and their king was doing nothing - then Zul shows up and rallies a bunch of them and takes them on a ship to Pandaria. Mind you, there is still plenty of Zandalari left, clinging to hope back on Zandalar while their isle sinks and gets overrun by Naga.

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  18. #398
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Source? No, I won't give you one. Just pay attention to the actual game.

    And when your entire empire and home gets destroyed in the Cataclysm, you do radical things. The common Zandalari troll thought the world had ended, and their king was doing nothing - then Zul shows up and rallies a bunch of them and takes them on a ship to Pandaria. Mind you, there is still plenty of Zandalari left, clinging to hope back on Zandalar while their isle sinks and gets overrun by Naga.
    I think you're trying to pass off your interpretation of the Zandalar as canon when it's no more solid than my own, by no means does the destruction of their island mean diplomacy is suddenly off the table, if anyone had made that claim prior to cata we would've all thought they were nuts.

    Yes you can recite what happened to me however many times you like, but that doesn't mean it would've have been a better idea for Blizz to write in some attempts at diplomacy, or for Vol'jin to make some ingame.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  19. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    I think you're trying to pass off your interpretation of the Zandalar as canon when it's no more solid than my own, by no means does the destruction of their island mean diplomacy is suddenly off the table, if anyone had made that claim prior to cata we would've all thought they were nuts.

    Yes you can recite what happened to me however many times you like, but that doesn't mean it would've have been a better idea for Blizz to write in some attempts at diplomacy, or for Vol'jin to make some ingame.
    And I think you are too lazy to look for the sources, lack common lore knowledge and aren't paying proper attention to the story.

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  20. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romeothecat View Post
    Glad to see all of the dwarf conflicts could have easily been resolved that whole time by varian! Who would have thought! Well, that's enough of Dwarves getting any lore that advances the current story! Now we can get back to the good stuff like, brann fumbling around a control panel for a titan computer or sully finding cute and cuddlely little animals to be his companions.

    Seriously though the lore for all alliance races other than humans is a spit in the face of their fans.
    At least it sounds better than "A Little Patience" not by far, mind you, but at least is progress.

    Varian isn't there to bark orders, he's more of a support for the forces send by Ironforge. Both Bronzebeard and Wildhammer are wary to deploy their forces as it would give the two other clans a window of opportunity to seize the throne; It is Moira that cuts the crap and mobilizes her forces, showing her commitment to the alliance.

    Or at least that's what I read on SoL

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